"A Federal Budget Crisis Months in the Planning"

Here is the NYT article on the origin of the shutdown conspiracy of the right-wing.

Plotted and planed a long time.

www.nytimes.com...

WASHINGTON — Shortly after President Obama started his second term, a loose-knit coalition of conservative activists led by former Attorney General Edwin Meese III gathered in the capital to plot strategy. Their push to repeal Mr. Obama’s health care law was going nowhere, and they desperately needed a new plan.

Out of that session, held one morning in a location the members insist on keeping secret, came a little-noticed “blueprint to defunding Obamacare,” signed by Mr. Meese and leaders of more than three dozen conservative groups.

It articulated a take-no-prisoners legislative strategy that had long percolated in conservative circles: that Republicans could derail the health care overhaul if conservative lawmakers were willing to push fellow Republicans — including their cautious leaders — into cutting off financing for the entire federal government.

“We felt very strongly at the start of this year that the House needed to use the power of the purse,” said one coalition member, Michael A. Needham, who runs Heritage Action for America, the political arm of the Heritage Foundation. “At least at Heritage Action, we felt very strongly from the start that this was a fight that we were going to pick.”

Last week the country witnessed the fallout from that strategy: a standoff that has shuttered much of the federal bureaucracy and unsettled the nation. To many Americans, the shutdown came out of nowhere. But interviews with a wide array of conservatives show that the confrontation that precipitated the crisis was the outgrowth of a long-running effort to undo the law, the Affordable Care Act, since its passage in 2010 — waged by a galaxy of conservative groups with more money, organized tactics and interconnections than is commonly known.

With polls showing Americans deeply divided over the law, conservatives believe that the public is behind them. Although the law’s opponents say that shutting down the government was not their objective, the activists anticipated that a shutdown could occur — and worked with members of the Tea Party caucus in Congress who were excited about drawing a red line against a law they despise. A defunding “tool kit” created in early September included talking points for the question, “What happens when you shut down the government and you are blamed for it?” The suggested answer was the one House Republicans give today: “We are simply calling to fund the entire government except for the Affordable Care Act/Obamacare.”

The current budget brinkmanship is just the latest development in a well-financed, broad-based assault on the health law, Mr. Obama’s signature legislative initiative. Groups like Tea Party Patriots, Americans for Prosperity and FreedomWorks are all immersed in the fight, as is Club for Growth, a business-backed nonprofit organization. Some, like Generation Opportunity and Young Americans for Liberty, both aimed at young adults, are upstarts. Heritage Action is new, too, founded in 2010 to advance the policy prescriptions of its sister group, the Heritage Foundation. The billionaire Koch brothers, Charles and David, have been deeply involved with financing the overall effort. A group linked to the Kochs, Freedom Partners Chamber of Commerce, disbursed more than $200 million last year to nonprofit organizations involved in the fight. Included was $5 million to Generation Opportunity, which created a buzz last month with an Internet advertisement showing a menacing Uncle Sam figure popping up between a woman’s legs during a gynecological exam.

reply to post by Willtell


And we would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for you damn kids and that meddling dog!

So NYT claims they solved this case because of a blue print the republicans put together and signed?

It seems to me that not even politicians are dumb enough to sign a document labeled "diabolical master plan" then leave it lying around for people to read.

But then they didn't try to hard to hide the "patriot act" or the "NDAA" so maybe it's true...

The billionaire Koch brothers, Charles and David, have been deeply involved with financing the overall effort.

To add a little more to this topic.Personally, I think both sides are gaming the the American people. Both sides funded by large corporate interests, both sides acting in accordance with that funding. We're in the midst of running into a multitude of disasters, and a lot of people, including many on this site, want to play this game as if it were a team sport. Unfortunately, we're in this thing together, and until we come together as a whole with ideals for the betterment of everyone, we'll continue to spin our tires , never gaining any traction. It's a high stakes game and you're the ones being played!

Gosh, I wonder when the "talking heads" will actually figure this out and realize that this isn't a "who will blink first" stalemate caused by the intransigence of both sides over the crafting of legislation. The ACA is a law, and it's already being implemented in spite of this shutdown. Not that you'd know any of that if all you did was read most city papers, watch network news or glance at the landing page of your Internet Service Provider.

Well, I'll give the NYT credit for some very creative speculation there. The thing is.... I don't see (and never have seen) how this shutdown is supposed to do diddly squat to "obamacare" since "obamacare" isn't a program, nor has it ever been a program. It's a GIANT collection of new laws, regulations and requirements to existing programs that even big bad Boehner wouldn't touch with a 10 foot democrat. Medicare and Medicaid. The ultimate Sacred Cows....which are expanding ....radically now, by the way.

The only way this ever could have or would have stopped "obamacare", is to literally stop every law in the Federal Register. That is, literally, crashing the nation into 3rd world status overnight, with no functioning government of any kind. That's how far this would have had to go, to the ultimate end, to have changed the laws ...hundreds of them in laws and regulations...which are currently in effect and passed legitimately to Super Court Challenge.

If they are really stupid enough (and it would be pure, actual, real, stupidity here) to believe THIS would have done THAT? They don't deserve to be in office anyway. I'll be happy to help vote 'em out.

Now..there is quite an undertone to this about that debt ceiling ..and I think they're wrong there too...but that one at least makes sense as a motivation to keep this going at this point....Kinda

Wrabbit2000

If they are really stupid enough (and it would be pure, actual, real, stupidity here) to believe THIS would have done THAT? They don't deserve to be in office anyway. I'll be happy to help vote 'em out.

The sourcing of this claim wasn't very hard to establish. Yes, they're idiots, and maybe you should consider that when you vote next time.

reply to post by Willtell


Here's another tinfoil element for you to ponder (you l'il progressive you!)

What if it's not the end of the world after October 17th?

What if all the scare, all the fear, all the drama, all the doom, it just fluff?

(What if our government collapses yet we remain standing?)

What if it all rubbish?

What if, after October 17th, the sun still rises in the east, birds still sing, bees still buzz, people still try to find work. . .

. . . . what if our government just thinks too highly of itself?

What if we end up realizing that we don't need government?

Happy Halloween progressives! Thought this might scare you!

reply to post by NorEaster


Who I help vote out depends on who is unlucky enough to be up for re-election in 2014 and 2016. I don't care who it is.

I'm honestly not kidding when I say I'm voting a straight anti-incumbent ticket. 100%, without exception, down the line. If it holds office, I'm voting for the other guy and one of the 3rd or indies where available in races, all the way down to city level.

I've really had it with the lot of them, and I'm sincere about being sick of the partisan games of both sides. They can ALL hit the curb and retire, in my view. Which letter they have after their name in the next two elections makes absolutely no difference to me on voting day. In is Out.

Like we use to say on the force:
"Just the facts mam"

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Government is supposed to be an extension of the people If it isn’t, and I agree it isn’t, then we should fight to make it represent the people.

beezzer
reply to post by Willtell

 

Here's another tinfoil element for you to ponder (you l'il progressive you!)

What if it's not the end of the world after October 17th?

What if all the scare, all the fear, all the drama, all the doom, it just fluff?

(What if our government collapses yet we remain standing?)

What if it all rubbish?

What if, after October 17th, the sun still rises in the east, birds still sing, bees still buzz, people still try to find work. . .

. . . . what if our government just thinks too highly of itself?

What if we end up realizing that we don't need government?

Happy Halloween progressives! Thought this might scare you!

Then on the 18th everyone will wake up to over 50 million at or below poverty levels, unemployment around 15%-20%, a corrupt political system, a corrupt financial system, poor foreign policy, poor education, poor infrastructure, and Detroit Michigan.Just because it isn't the end of the world doesn't mean these serious problems went away.

reply to post by beezzer


I am not progressive on all issues though on many I am.
It’s an extension of my personal philosophy of relieving misery and suffering for all people as much as we can do in this world.

As I said to Wrabbit
We should strive to make government our servant

I love how Obama and the left have exactly no 'responsibility' what so ever here.

They say deficits are 'shrinking', but hey we need to spend more money!

Lot of cognitive dissonance going on, but who the hell cares everything wrong that goes on in this country is ALWAYS the rights 'fault'.

No matter what!

Oh and the care act is a TAX. A redistributive tax to rob from the rich and give to the poor thus INCREASING government spending that will lead to the next 'crisis'.

Rinse and repeat stupidity.

reply to post by Willtell


I agree we should. The only way I believe we can do that right now is to toss everyone, on both sides, equally.

We had Bush and I don't mind saying, for 4-6 years people like me were happy. Just over the majority, by a hair, we were all quite happy. Then Bush turned into the burning Bush and we saw his true colors. Hence, many of us went into the election double burned when Obama showed up, already seeing someone trusted turn Dr. Jeckyl ....so pretty sure Obama would too.

Now Obama has had 5 years ...and lookie... He's done it too. This is the dangerous time, IMO, in terms of the nation. Conservatives (heck with Republicans if they don't see the distinction) feel deeply betrayed and burned by what Georgie did for Bail outs, nationalizing whole sections of industry and who the heck could EVER forget his Teasury secretary saying they asked for so much in TARP because they wanted 'a really big number'. Oh.. (facepalm)

----

Now look whats happened? Even my own wife, this morning, was shocked to learn we now HAD to file a tax return. That part hadn't even hit her ..and she's not ignorant. She's no news hound like I am, but she's not 'woman on the street' candidate. She hadn't put together that even if we make no money, it doesn't matter, because we OWE until we prove differently to the IRS by proof of payment.

People who bought this ...are betrayed as deeply as we, conservatives were. Now both sides are infuriated ...and who knows how it goes now. I think all this plays into what we're seeing now too. Both sides up there are scared. They realize ...they really screwed up this time. People really are ...REALLY... pissed.

reply to post by GD21D


I don't know who told you life was all peaches, but they were lying to you!

Make it what you want of it. Or not.

I refuse to lie down and let life run me over.

Willtell
reply to post by beezzer

 

I am not progressive on all issues though on many I am.

'kay.

It’s an extension of my personal philosophy of relieving misery and suffering for all people as much as we can do in this world.

Does that include forcing others to adhere to your philosophy?

As I said to Wrabbit
We should strive to make government our servant

Government always was. We just ceded our authority and personal responsibility to them, willingly.

So government forcing, and pushing corporate products on people is not being a 'servant'.

That is a bold face declaration they are our masters.

Every single person should be against the care act. and everything else the 'progressive' platform stands for.

Fiat money and corporate products are not 'human rights' just as 'corporations are not people'.

You make the choice.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I never for one second thought Obama was the messiah all those fawning fools did.
Of course I also knew Bush was no good as well.

I am a realist, and understand this system has been highjacked by powerful forces and it may take dramatic things to change it.

I am also a minor (not the extent of Alex Jones) believer in some of the conspiratorial stuff, a Webster Tarpley kind of view.

And therefore it is clear that even to gain real power one has to be approved by some hidden forces.

I think after JFK the PTB realized they had to approve every president and powerful office holder in some form.

Bernie didnt explain how anyone is being deprived of health insurance.

Im not deprived of it. Its there for me and everyone else to buy. Home insurance, health insurance, car insurance. supplemental insurance. where do they get this idea that people are being deprived of insurance?

neo96
So government forcing, and pushing corporate products on people is not being a 'servant'.

Once again going to agree with Neo here. We didnt elect insurance salesmen. We didnt designate our representatives or president as health insurance salesmen to come force us all into coverage. and I'm not going to vote for ANYONE who doesnt understand that.