Found this base today......Really big satellite dish, about 50 miles east of San Diego area.

www.guardianews.com...

N 32.677897 W 116.43593

"La posta microwave station"


Was out riding my bike with a couple of friends on la posta rd off of the 94 east outside of san diego. The link above is about the site. The cool thing a noticed was this huge Satellite dish on top of the mountain in the bird bath position. As we road by the gate it said.

Naval Mountain Warfare Training center. Naval surface warfare command.


Pretty cool to come across this place. I have never heard of it.

Anyone else seen this place?

[edit on 15-11-2004 by ignorance is a plenty]

A little googling reveals:

It was a microwave station for the Navy which was shut down in 1986. It is now a training facility for Navy SEALS based in Coronado, to simulate outside environments like Iraq or
Afghanistan.

www.signonsandiego.com...

From the looks of the dish, they are probably still using it. Looked awfully clean. Would be intersting to see if it actually changes positions. That would tell for sure.


Sometimes the govt says they shutdown things...only to go into the black.



Could be nothing though....still fun to research.

Curious, why would the government not dismantle the satelite dish once decomisioned? It seems like a waste prefectly good equipment to me. Perhaps they had no further use for it? No, even then they could sell it or atleast melt it down. They could have thought they might need it in the future, I spose.

Whatever the reason, I doubt it is conspiracy related. From the sound of it the base has a perfectly logical purpose.

Originally posted by SkyFox2
Curious, why would the government not dismantle the satelite dish once decomisioned? It seems like a waste prefectly good equipment to me. Perhaps they had no further use for it? No, even then they could sell it or atleast melt it down. They could have thought they might need it in the future, I spose.

Whatever the reason, I doubt it is conspiracy related. From the sound of it the base has a perfectly logical purpose.

The dish could be used as a SATCOM link for the MILSTAR Satellite network. Just because they don't use it for what it was origionally built for, doesn't mean it's not used. Why build a new Satellite dish, when all you really need to do is wipe the dust off the old one and maybe make a small adjustment? Sometimes the answer doesn't have to be exciting and mysterious to be correct. Sorry, no conspiracy here, just common sense being appied.

Tim
ATS Director of Counter-Ignorance

[edit on 17-11-2004 by ghost]

I know it is not for MILSTAR.

I was speaking with a coworker about this. He stated that a friend of his worked out there last year. I am going to find out more if I can.

I think it's much too big for modern satellite communications (the dish is very large and visible from miles away on I-8). With the sensitivity of modern electronics and modern coding and modulation techniques you don't need such a huge satellite dish. What would be the maintenance cost to keep something like that going? Not worth it, and not worth dismantling cost, so it just sits there and rots.

Look at what you can get with DirectTV etc.

The only use for a dish that size now is for radio astronomy and deep space probe communication. But then, they have to be way in the boondocks to reduce outside interference. San Diego has grown greatly, especially in east county out there (Indian reservation gambling and people building homes), and there is cell phone service.

So it can no longer be a desirable site for that. My guess is that it is just as they say, a training facility for SEALS. They like the land, and intend to keep it. And if they have to do other secret tests out there (SEAL weapons + tactics) why not?

Originally posted by mbkennel
I think it's much too big for modern satellite communications (the dish is very large and visible from miles away on I-8). With the sensitivity of modern electronics and modern coding and modulation techniques you don't need such a huge satellite dish. What would be the maintenance cost to keep something like that going? Not worth it, and not worth dismantling cost, so it just sits there and rots.

Look at what you can get with DirectTV etc.

The only use for a dish that size now is for radio astronomy and deep space probe communication. But then, they have to be way in the boondocks to reduce outside interference. San Diego has grown greatly, especially in east county out there (Indian reservation gambling and people building homes), and there is cell phone service.

So it can no longer be a desirable site for that. My guess is that it is just as they say, a training facility for SEALS. They like the land, and intend to keep it. And if they have to do other secret tests out there (SEAL weapons + tactics) why not?

There are plenty of dishes that are just as big and larger than what is out at la posta. Comparing direct TV and DOD intel gathering......not even on the same level. The direct TV satellites pump out a lot of power. The size of a dish has to do with the "db" gain. If you were lets say monitoring or relaying weak communications you would need a larger dish to amplify the signal.


What would be interesting is to know the original mission of the sat dish at the site. That would give us something to start with.

La Posta is a training facility is not just for SEALS, but they do have custody of it. Being in the military, I've been to the site and I'm very familiar with it. It was formerly used as a satelitte tracking station, then used as a microwave relay station, then transfered to the BLM (Bureau of Land Management). BLM categorized the land as surplus so the folks at the Naval Special Warfare Command use the land today for mountain warfare training. Other services and agencies like Marine Recon, Border Patrol, SWAT, and regular Sailors and Marines use the cite also for gun qualifications. About 100 yards SE of the Dish, there is a mock SAM site. Now, the Microwave dish is not in any shape to be reutilized, the military has little folding tripod antennas that can do the same job as that hunk of junk. I've been up there and talked to the fellas on duty when I traveled there for gun qualifications. It is too costly to have it dismantled. There is no company around that wants to attempt to disassemble the dish. Seriously, they are just waiting for it to tip over. Winds blow strongly a majority of the time from the coast and engineers say it will fall down the hill toward La Posta road. So no one is in danger. There is nothing interesting about this place except looking at the Dish! Nothing secret happens here, just trails and gun ranges. If there was anything secret about the place then there wouldn't be a sign at the gate about Special Warfare Training, think about it.

Originally posted by ignorance is a plenty

Originally posted by mbkennel
I think it's much too big for modern satellite communications (the dish is very large and visible from miles away on I-8). With the sensitivity of modern electronics and modern coding and modulation techniques you don't need such a huge satellite dish. What would be the maintenance cost to keep something like that going? Not worth it, and not worth dismantling cost, so it just sits there and rots.

Look at what you can get with DirectTV etc.

The only use for a dish that size now is for radio astronomy and deep space probe communication. But then, they have to be way in the boondocks to reduce outside interference. San Diego has grown greatly, especially in east county out there (Indian reservation gambling and people building homes), and there is cell phone service.

So it can no longer be a desirable site for that. My guess is that it is just as they say, a training facility for SEALS. They like the land, and intend to keep it. And if they have to do other secret tests out there (SEAL weapons + tactics) why not?

There are plenty of dishes that are just as big and larger than what is out at la posta. Comparing direct TV and DOD intel gathering......not even on the same level. The direct TV satellites pump out a lot of power. The size of a dish has to do with the "db" gain. If you were lets say monitoring or relaying weak communications you would need a larger dish to amplify the signal.


What would be interesting is to know the original mission of the sat dish at the site. That would give us something to start with.

This is not entirely true. The size of the dish will decide the optimal operating frequency.

The formula for frequency to wavelenth (optimal lenth of the antenna element/disk diameter is

(wavelenth(in meters)=299792458( speed of light in meters per second)/freqency(in hertz))

So if you had a 70 foot dish, the optimal frequency would be 4.28MHZ.

Now you can adjust the size in multiples/divisions ( ocataves) of the frequeny to adjust gain, the parabola of the dish and the height of the LNB, or feed horn, and make up of the dish to increase gain.

I agree with olongapo2200, being former military, although never been to that particular facility, many facilities I have been too though, equipment and buildings that were once used for other reasons are left standing, although nonop. Most of that stuff is to expensive to dismantle and if you did find a contractor to do the job, there has to be profit for them somewhere. Unless its a health risk or endangers the facility, they dont do anything about it until it collaspes, falls apart, or they find another use for it, but nothing that it was intended for originally and of course if could be used for scrap material to fix similar systems, where manufactures dont make the repair parts for it as well. And as far as it looking clean, like its used, well it would be a sore eye to the land if you had a rusty radar dish sitting out there, so, my take would be, expired paint somewhere in the mil system probably goes out to things like that, rather than spend the $$ to have it disposed of by hazmat means...

Originally posted by mbkennel
I think it's much too big for modern satellite communications (the dish is very large and visible from miles away on I-8). With the sensitivity of modern electronics and modern coding and modulation techniques you don't need such a huge satellite dish. What would be the maintenance cost to keep something like that going? Not worth it, and not worth dismantling cost, so it just sits there and rots.
The only use for a dish that size now is for radio astronomy and deep space probe communication.

Actually that is not entirely true. Large antennas are still in use today for Phone and data transmissions and TV programming. www.goonhilly.bt.com...

Alot of Earth Stations antennas are around the 4m size and bigger. Mostly because the bigger the antenna, the better the reception. Alot of the bigger antennas are C-band. C-band signals are wider in frequency and therefore they are not bothered by rain fade, unlike KU antennas..and your 18" DirectTV dish when it pours down rain. The bigger the antenna the less power you have to put out to saturate the bird. Which comes back to "ignorance is a plenty" db gain post.

my 2 cents.

So we can probably discern that the Dish is inop. What I would like to know is what was the tracking mission, and later what was the relay mission? I am unable to find and details on it's previous mission.

reply to post by ignorance is a plenty

From the official Space and Naval Warfare Systems Center San Diego Website:
The Center has had a number of unique facilities over the years, including an oceanographic tower. It was built in 1959 a mile off Mission Beach in 60 feet of water, where it provided an excellent environment for continuous oceanographic and meteorological measurements. The tower could be used for equipment evaluation and studies of the atmosphere, waves, and the sea floor. In May 1964, NEL began construction of the La Posta Astro-Geophysical Observatory on a 3,900-foot site in the Laguna Mountains 65 miles east of San Diego. The observatory played a major role in solar radio mapping, studies of environmental disturbances, and development of a solar optical videometer for microwave research. Its 60-foot dish, which could both transmit and receive, was used for important Center research programs in propagation and ionospheric forecasting.

Originally posted by olongapo2200
La Posta is a training facility .... Being in the military, I've been to the site and I'm very familiar with it. It was ... transferred to the BLM (Bureau of Land Management). BLM categorized the land as surplus so the folks at the Naval Special Warfare Command use the land today for mountain warfare training. Other services and agencies like Marine Recon, Border Patrol, SWAT, and regular Sailors and Marines use the cite also for gun qualifications....[dish] It is too costly to have it dismantled. ...Seriously, they are just waiting for it to tip over. Winds blow strongly a majority of the time from the coast and engineers say it will fall down the hill toward La Posta road. ... There is nothing interesting about this place except looking at the Dish! Nothing secret happens here, just trails and gun ranges. If there was anything secret about the place then there wouldn't be a sign at the gate about [Naval] Special Warfare Training [Facility], think about it.

Correct. The facility is only open to LE/Military (typically Special Operations Forces) for Marksmanship training with the additional exposure to mountainous environ. US Customs and Border Patrol have access to the facility for obvious reasons - the Mexican border is only about 5 miles away!

Originally posted by ignorance is a plenty
From the looks of the dish, they are probably still using it. Looked awfully clean. Would be interesting to see if it actually changes positions. That would tell for sure.

Sometimes the govt says they shutdown things...only to go into the black.

Could be nothing though....still fun to research.

Negative. The dish is completely inoperable, and looks as though it's on its last leg (cracks, rust, etc); which is why it is locked in the vertical position. The only equipment currently in use are high-powered unidirectional (mast) radio antennas that have been retro-fitted onto the dish because of its elevated/strategic location/height.

Originally posted by ignorance is a plenty
So we can probably discern that the Dish is inop. What I would like to know is what was the tracking mission, and later what was the relay mission? I am unable to find and details on it's previous mission.

The facts are out there. The "previous mission" is stated below.

SSC San Diego (www.spawar.navy.mil...) offers the history and Wikipedia enforces these facts below:

"La Posta Astro-Geophysical Observatory
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

La Posta Astro-Geophysical Observatory

The La Posta Astro-Geophysical Observatory was a 60-foot-diameter (18 m) Naval Electronics Laboratory radio-telescope at Campo, CA. Construction began in 1964 at a 3,900-foot-altitude (1,200 m) site in the Laguna Mountains, 65 miles (105 kilometers) east of San Diego.[1]
[edit] History

The observatory played a major role in solar radio mapping, studies of environmental disturbances, and development of a solar optical videometer for microwave research.

Its 60-foot dish, which could both transmit and receive, was used for important research programs in propagation and ionospheric forecasting which were used during a number of Apollo space launches to predict solar activity that might hamper communications from the ground to the space capsules. The building located at the lower right of the dish housed a turbine-powered alternator used to provide power for the dish operation. There was insufficient power available from the national grid. In addition, the dish was computer controlled by an operator located in the building below the dish. The dish movements were monitored by close-circuit television."

Today, like I said, the dish is inop. Some radio masts sit atop of it and the conical base is actually a gymnasium with exercise equipment and free-weights.

How do I know this? Because I'm at the facility as I type this.


jayo, out!

Originally posted by mbkennel
I think it's much too big for modern satellite communications (the dish is very large and visible from miles away on I-8). With the sensitivity of modern electronics and modern coding and modulation techniques you don't need such a huge satellite dish.

The only use for a dish that size now is for radio astronomy and deep space probe communication. But then, they have to be way in the boondocks to reduce outside interference. San Diego has grown greatly, especially in east county out there (Indian reservation gambling and people building homes), and there is cell phone service.

That's not necessarily true. I work in the commercial satellite communications field and we have alot of rather large antennas. The larger the antenna, the better the passive gain and tighter beam width of the transmission. At the facility where I work, we deal with alot of video broadcasts, and all of our antennas range from 2.4 Meters all the way up to a 16 Meter.

It is true that you can receive Directv and Dish with a very small antenna (think dinner plate), consider that the transmit stations need very large antennas to transmit the signals to the spacecraft, and at high power. Going to what I mentioned before about the tight beamwidth, the reason these uplink stations do use larger antennas is you have to think about the current commercial satellite constellation. These spacecraft are at maximum 2 degrees apart in azimuth, and ALL transmit antennas must be what we call in the industry to be "2 degree compliant" meaning that the energy from their signals cannot be evident 2 degrees from the center of the antenna when it reaches the spacecraft. This avoids "adjacent satellite interference", which believe it or not, is often our biggest cause of interference.

I have attached a photo of the facility I work at and believe it or not, we have alot of conspiracy theorists that come up here and try to figure out what this facility is. Alot of the reasons these types of facilities are out in rural areas is because quite honestly it is an eyesore. Would you want a big satellite facility in your backyard transmitting hundreds of watts of RF radiation?

Overall view of the facility and surrounding areas

Closeup view of the antenna field