Do We Live in a Proto-Theocracy? - Worshipping the State: How Liberalism Became Our State Religion

Kaploink

xuenchen

Most of the malarkey about Democrats and Obama *not* being Left Wing is coming from Left Wing opinion steering sources.

As someone that proudly voted for Reagan twice and George H Bush (his son GW was a terrible governor and I refused to vote for him), I definitely say the Democrats are much closer to what the Reagan era Big Tent Republicans were. Moderate conservatives that valued tradition and the free market, but still pushed the country forward. People willing to make compromises when it was in the best interest of the country.

Sure the Democrats aren't like the current bunch of Republicans that hope to make their favorite translation of the Bible into law or those that believe a paradise on earth awaits if we remove all the safety nets and regulations turning the country into something you see in Central America. Frankly, that's a good thing as we need someone with some sanity in politics.

This might help to make clear what I am suggesting is a more accurate representation of the proximity of the two wings of mainstream bipartisan politics in America.

Circular Thinking - Graphic Analogs of the Political Spectrum - An Ideology Refresher

You would be in the bottom center in the first graph and I would be on the far right in the second graph.

MOMof3
Also, religion relies entirely on faith.

No it doesn't. Ever heard of a "religious experience"?

Oh wait, that's just a hallucination. Yeah... religion calls its non-believers "heretics" (or liars), and science calls its detractors "crazy" (or liars). Both use the same tactic of questioning the sanity and personal integrity of their opponents in their attempts to discredit them. The similarities between religion and science go on and on.

Kaploink

xuenchen

Most of the malarkey about Democrats and Obama *not* being Left Wing is coming from Left Wing opinion steering sources.

As someone that proudly voted for Reagan twice and George H Bush (his son GW was a terrible governor and I refused to vote for him), I definitely say the Democrats are much closer to what the Reagan era Big Tent Republicans were. Moderate conservatives that valued tradition and the free market, but still pushed the country forward. People willing to make compromises when it was in the best interest of the country.

Sure the Democrats aren't like the current bunch of Republicans that hope to make their favorite translation of the Bible into law or those that believe a paradise on earth awaits if we remove all the safety nets and regulations turning the country into something you see in Central America. Frankly, that's a good thing as we need someone with some sanity in politics.

A bit of history revision here on your part. Hay maybe that what they teach now days at college.

The Reagan era conservative movement was driven by the very same sort or people and ideas that are driving much of the conservative effort today.

greencmp
Going back centuries, it has proven to be better for religions to not have the responsibilities of state management.

VERY TRUE. Secular rule of law is the only civilized rule. If people wish to add their own religious restrictions on top of that, that's their choice. But the baseline rule of law for humanity should be secular. That being said, I agree with you that some political ideologies have become 'religious' for people ... be it conservative or liberalism.

reply to post by NthOther


Religion and gods were the answer to the unknown, then came science with real answers.

NthOther

MOMof3
Also, religion relies entirely on faith.

No it doesn't. Ever heard of a "religious experience"?

Oh wait, that's just a hallucination. Yeah... religion calls its non-believers "heretics" (or liars), and science calls its detractors "crazy" (or liars). Both use the same tactic of questioning the sanity and personal integrity of their opponents in their attempts to discredit them. The similarities between religion and science go on and on.

Please provide a source or some evidence that proves these 'experiences' are religious.

I won't hold my breath...

*Insert rolling eyes*

FlyersFan

greencmp
Going back centuries, it has proven to be better for religions to not have the responsibilities of state management.

VERY TRUE. Secular rule of law is the only civilized rule. If people wish to add their own religious restrictions on top of that, that's their choice. But the baseline rule of law for humanity should be secular. That being said, I agree with you that some political ideologies have become 'religious' for people ... be it conservative or liberalism.

Modern angle and rhetoric would have us all believe that religion as a base for political philosophy is some new outcropping on the political scene. But it has always been there. Besides this, although they don't get the attention like others, there is a side of the church that has used the bible to justify its social liberal position. They just want most of us to think that the "hard right" are the only position full of "bible bangers" and that its some antiquated version.

The liberal side of the church is kept out of the picture in order to protect it from the fulaside of rhetorical abuse and denigration the conservative side suffers.

What do we have in Rev Jesse Jackson and Rev Al Sharpton on the right to equal actual these preachers as political commentators and pundits? What we do have is the only sort of justifiable bible association that the liberals will allow in a public political figure and naturally their on the progressive side. The progressive "bible banging" wing of the liberal party. They are tolerated for there de facto liberal slanted interpretation of the bible.

OpenEars123

NthOther

MOMof3
Also, religion relies entirely on faith.

No it doesn't. Ever heard of a "religious experience"?

Oh wait, that's just a hallucination. Yeah... religion calls its non-believers "heretics" (or liars), and science calls its detractors "crazy" (or liars). Both use the same tactic of questioning the sanity and personal integrity of their opponents in their attempts to discredit them. The similarities between religion and science go on and on.

Please provide a source or some evidence that proves these 'experiences' are religious.

I won't hold my breath...

*Insert rolling eyes*

edit on 8/10/13 by OpenEars123 because: (no reason given)

"I have a dream" MLK.

reply to post by greencmp



Where are principles and values cultivated?

In the past, church, family used to be the primary sources of that cultivation.

Now it is schools and social media that cultivate, form peoples values and principles.

reply to post by greencmp


Why does everything have to have something to do with religion? Whenever I see some US topic on some abortion law or tolerance, I see religous people shouting that it is an attack against religion, many would even suggest atheism as a movement, as a conspiracy against Christianity. I am sorry, but that simply is not true and whether you like it or not, the world is not that black and white, that it has only christianity and opposition of christianity, so everything does not revolve around religion...

I come from the least reilgious country in the world, so I don´t have the experience of living in a more religious country for a longer period, although I just can not get the whole religion issue...

There is no "atheist" agenda round here. People are not made atheists. Usually religious beliefs come from family, from how a person was taught. If I think about it, I never have had a conversation with my parents about religion, as our family is not religious, it just doesn´t come up, why should it?

The tolerance issue is simply coming from common sense. Looking at how the world is, there are many "bad" people out there already, why create another "demon" of which to get rid of? Just like nazis created the "demon" in jews, so are many religious wanting to create the "demon" in other religions and people who do not live by their religion - creating a problem out of nothing, out of something that is purely the decision of another person and does not affect your life in any violent or financial way. I could simply care less what another person does during their free time, as long as its not crime, whether violent or financial.

It is not a surprise that many religions are losing their followers. More people from older generation are not religious -> less people from younger generation are taught it at home. When a person has been preached something from early childhood, it is not easy to not be religious due to having to unlearn the strong beliefs. It is rare that somebody from non-religious background becomes religious due to religion having too many arguments not supporting it. I´m sorry to say, but for most people coming from non-religious backgrounds, there is not much difference between Bible and the brother Grimm´s fairytales ...

Painterz

olaru12
reply to post by greencmp

 

Do We Live in a Proto-Theocracy? - Worshipping the State: How Liberalism Became Our State Religion

No we live in a Fascist Corporatracy where the conservatives worship money, business, and power over the workers.

The neocons are still in power and I offer this up as evidence.


www.usnews.com...

edit on 6-10-2013 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)

Agreed, the Democratic party and Obama are a party of the center-right. The Republicans are on the extreme right. There is nothing even remotely liberal about either of them.

It always makes me astonished when people complain about the Democrats being leftist liberals, they're really nothing of the sort. They're fiscal corporate conservatives, just like all the rest of our bought and paid for politicians.

your right...the only true liberal I know is Noam Chomsky...and he will NEVER, NEVER be interviewed on MSM

reply to post by greencmp


I have been writing about this since 2008 or so when it started to happen at my liberal arts college. Since then, it has gotten markedly worse, back in 2008, the idea was that liberalism was based on science and critical thinking.

However, progress to 2013, and it is no longer about that. I hang out at the same college these days and free thought is not allowed by the students (the professors are fine, it is the younger generation that are worse) due to peer pressure. However, because of this, the students do NOT know what they are talking about.

This is the direct result of not having someone with a different perspective to hone your own. Also, mixing the emotional attachment of theocracy with atheism and science is an absolutely terrible idea.

Science is NOT religion, it is NOT meant to be worshiped - it is meant to remain unbiased. I'm assuming.

darkbake
reply to post by greencmp

 

I have been writing about this since 2008 or so when it started to happen at my liberal arts college. Since then, it has gotten markedly worse, back in 2008, the idea was that liberalism was based on science and critical thinking.

However, progress to 2013, and it is no longer about that. I hang out at the same college these days and free thought is not allowed by the students (the professors are fine, it is the younger generation that are worse) due to peer pressure. However, because of this, the students do NOT know what they are talking about.

This is the direct result of not having someone with a different perspective to hone your own. Also, mixing the emotional attachment of theocracy with atheism and science is an absolutely terrible idea.

Science is NOT religion, it is NOT meant to be worshiped - it is meant to remain unbiased. I'm assuming.

edit on 8-10-2013 by darkbake because: (no reason given)

Well put, especially since the majority of hypotheses are all but guaranteed to be superseded as continued experiments falsify (that is the point of the scientific method after all, falsifiability) the existing presumptions.

Any hypotheses that are unfalsifiable are by definition pseudoscience.

beezzer
reply to post by greencmp

 

Where are principles and values cultivated?

In the past, church, family used to be the primary sources of that cultivation.

Now it is schools and social media that cultivate, form peoples values and principles.

Very true....

Who's fault is that? Families became dysfunctional units when both parents were forced to work to make ends meet and churches became either cults or business enterprises, more interested in passing the collection plate than the conversion of souls.
Create a social vacuum and the space will be filled with either politicians or charlatans, usually both.

Technology is the new religion.....the irony is astonishing! ATS as social media is a classic example, where the faithful kneel in cyber prayer.

olaru12

beezzer
reply to post by greencmp

 

Where are principles and values cultivated?

In the past, church, family used to be the primary sources of that cultivation.

Now it is schools and social media that cultivate, form peoples values and principles.

Very true....

Who's fault is that? Families became dysfunctional units when both parents were forced to work to make ends meet and churches became either cults or business enterprises, more interested in passing the collection plate than the conversion of souls.
Create a social vacuum and the space will be filled with either politicians or charlatans, usually both.

Technology is the new religion.....the irony is astonishing! ATS as social media is a classic example, where the faithful kneel in cyber prayer.

edit on 8-10-2013 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)

There is so much truth in your comments, the family unit has been intentionally eviscerated and the need for some contiguous social unit is being filled by the state a la 'it takes a village'.

I am sure that many would argue the point but, even many feminists agree that they were sold a very different bag of goods. Once there was a presumption of two bread winners in each family costs began to rise and single income households became nearly impossible. The near doubling of cost of living due to inflation was funded by the increase in quantity of salaries, not any increase in income per worker.

beezzer
reply to post by greencmp

 

Where are principles and values cultivated?

In the past, church, family used to be the primary sources of that cultivation.

Now it is schools and social media that cultivate, form peoples values and principles.

True, the mechanism is the same and the transference of faith to 'social conscience' seems undeniable.

excellent topic.

and most of this is discussed in great detail from one of my favorite authors, Murray Rothbard in his book, For a New Liberty, the Libertarian Manifesto.

in it, he discusses how back many years ago, the people in charge of the people were robed in the cloth of the church. as time goes on and people begin to move away from the churchs rule over man, the people we began to turn to were now robed in a white scientific robe. still robed, different color and theme.

man has the natural ability to place faith into something greater than themselves. many years ago and to some degree still today, people place faith into a religious belief or deity. and for many, they have begun to place their faith into a govt.

one of the single greatest threats to the authoritarian progressives lies with in the Declaration of Independence: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

and as we have heard not once but twice now, from Obama, repeating the same quote above but completely removing the Creator from his speech. the first time, many thought it was a mistake but to do it a second time, its done on purpose.

the progressives MUST convince the general public to place their faith into the govt and they are doing their best job to get it done. Statism is now a religion.

samUwell
excellent topic.

and most of this is discussed in great detail from one of my favorite authors, Murray Rothbard in his book, For a New Liberty, the Libertarian Manifesto.

in it, he discusses how back many years ago, the people in charge of the people were robed in the cloth of the church. as time goes on and people begin to move away from the churchs rule over man, the people we began to turn to were now robed in a white scientific robe. still robed, different color and theme.

man has the natural ability to place faith into something greater than themselves. many years ago and to some degree still today, people place faith into a religious belief or deity. and for many, they have begun to place their faith into a govt.

one of the single greatest threats to the authoritarian progressives lies with in the Declaration of Independence: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

and as we have heard not once but twice now, from Obama, repeating the same quote above but completely removing the Creator from his speech. the first time, many thought it was a mistake but to do it a second time, its done on purpose.

the progressives MUST convince the general public to place their faith into the govt and they are doing their best job to get it done. Statism is now a religion.

edit on 12-10-2013 by samUwell because: (no reason given)

Reminds me of scientism (from Isaac Asimov's Foundation)

MOMof3
reply to post by swanne

 

That is his point of view. The other is, that we are free to be free from any religion. I wish he would have expanded his fantasy with what is the name Liberalism's God, where do they worship, who is their messiah, the name of their Bible, etc. That would be fun.

Interresting you choose the chirstian version of religion as your base comparrison. They have done a great deal of social engineering to produce this thought process in you.

The name of their God is the absence of a God (free from God's way of life). By doing this, they become their own objects of worship.

They worship their absent God (themselves) in all areas of their lives, through higher education, politics, scientific institutions, culture etc. All of their accepted theories must come with the absence of a God, for to include God in any theory is to commit herasey against the church of self (liberalism).

Their messiah is themselves. The governments, scientists, technology firms all believe they are capible of saving mankind from themselves, they do not need an external messiah, for they are all right in their own eyes.

The name of their Bible (logos, relevatory words) is the curiculum taught in public schools, and higher education facilities. For if you dare not take the words of their "book" seriously you are "cut off" (metaphoraclly) from amongst their accepted group (peers).

To a Liberal they cannot "see" the religious angle, for they have build a mentality in which God does not and cannot possibly exist, to earn the mainstream acceptance of the intellectually vain.

God Bless,

MOMof3
reply to post by NthOther

 

Religion and gods were the answer to the unknown, then came science with real answers.

This seems to be worth adding to the discussion:

10 Sublime Wonders of Science