Should gamers be accountable for in-game war crimes?

ProfessorChaos

If a particular game wants to add this as a feature, either optional or standard, and market it that way, that's one thing, but to arbitrarily force it, is ridiculous.

I agree, The Red Cross should release their own brand of war games with all the red tape and such.

Most people aren't stupid. If anyone were to take this story mode to life, it only shows how quickly one can end in violent war.

Times change, who are you to dictate how someone is spending their free time if it isn't hurting anyone?

reply to post by hknudzkknexnt


There is one thing that these people really don't understand...no matter how realistic games get, 99% of all gamers out there realize that it is just a game. And, that when it is turned off, reality doesn't work like a game. It's sad that this has to even be pointed out, as if gamers are all mindless zombies who get sucked into a world, and never come back.

reply to post by Catacomb


Brrraaaaaaaaaaaaains. I do like zombie games. I'm kidding.

I think that if we actually prosecuted real war crimes in the real world that it'd probably be a better start.

Although human evolution seems to be on a downward slope at the moment, when it starts going up the slope again - I think we'll reach a point (I probably won't be alive then) when they realize violent video games aren't suitable for the home environment, and will confine them to the military. Though by that point in human evolution, wars and military should no longer exist.

I've been a gamer for over 20 years and very, very rarely need to play an FPS (first person shooter) or other game where you control a gun. It's possible to have lots of gaming fun without having to throw grenades at anyone, even in a virtual world. I like the GTA games, not because of the stories or the guns, but because like that video in the OP, I can fly a plane around a realistic city.

I realize escapism for people is different, some people want to move some jewels, some want to drive a mushroom car, other people want to rack up a body count. But I am, as a games developer too, a strong advocator of games that educate or entertain without the need for violence. I'm reluctant to bring kids up in the world we live in now for many many reasons, but a growing concern is HD video game realism. My kids brains will be fried by that.

When I was young yes it WAS easy to differentiate between the pixels of Monkey Island and the real world, but nowadays...that line is being seriously blurred. And I know from experience that games and movies, when I was young - influenced me to do things, bad things. I remember coming out of Gone In 60 Seconds as a kid and determined to steal a car, presumably because of the glorification of it in the movie, I don't know. Suffice to say I left the cinema only to find my bike had been stolen. Irony...(got it back though, idiot that managed to break my lock rode it past me moments later).

And it's not just that. What about the kid that got stabbed in London for his copy of GTA5? Just the materialistic nature of some people leads them to be violent, and video games are the most sought after and materialistic thing for young men in the Western world. Sometimes I feel despair when my friends go on, and on, and on (and Ariston) about the next COD release or the next Battlefield.

Video games are good but some people take it too far, even if they don't think they do or the rest of us just think it's "normal". One friend's Facebook is literally him talking about Battlefield 3 in every, single, update for the last 2 years. That is an unhealthy addiction IMO. Now, he's a non-violent person, bit of a Buddhist, but it's still proof that the game is causing an obsession. Someone who's a bit more chav or meathead than him might just become more violent because of it.

People shouldn't forget the Bobo experiment. It's not like those results just "went away". It's not like the things set in that experiment don't exist in today's world. And that's when video-games barely existed.

With regards to the topic, I don't think it's a necessity in any shape or form. I just think the mainstream market is sad, focusing so much on violent games. They don't teach anyone anything. I mean, do they? People can't claim it teaches them "battlefield tactics" especially if they never ever intend to join the army or special services.

I think people should enjoy escapism, whatever they want. I just raise an eyebrow when they bum violent video games and don't shut up about them. The world is a lot more interesting than Call of Duty. Interesting thread!

GreyGoo
is tea bagging the enemy a war crime ?

I needed a good laugh today.

Thanks!

If it were meant to be realistic civilians in the game wouldnt just stand around while there is an armed conflict going on. Many times in games that involve this activity AI players whether civ or not have a set path they walk on or set function this kind of limits what they can and cannot do, this means that the realism of chaos cannot really exist, it is just suggestive, I have alot of experience as a marine infantry man and have never played a game that slipping on blood or tripping over bodies (parts) exist. If they were to implement these rules they would have to redefine the limitations of non combatants and also adjust for the fog of war whether illegal or not as this is called collateral damage and in some instances a certain amount given situations is tolerated. Hell while I am at it, who punishes the computer for dropping bombs during a drone strike to kill one target and at the same time decimates an entire village? War is chaos people pretend there are rules but when it is your life on the line, you don't think about rules if you are that scared and capable you will kill or evade anything that stands in front of you regardless. This element in my opinion is not a good thing it helps foster to the OBEY type thingie.

reply to post by hknudzkknexnt


Wait.....first tell me of the consequence's where the drone kills everyone in the area tell it gets the one it was sent after.

Do the controller's pay the price, are they sent back to the beginning for killing "innocent's" , how about the person in charge of the controllers ...better yet how about the presidents "kill list".

There are no damn rules...at least not for those that kill innocent's and call it collateral damage.

reply to post by hknudzkknexnt


that has to be the most retarded thing i have ever heard. Think about Gta 5? you would ruin the entire game,the company would loose millions ect.

I say, no more taking drugs,so we dont come up with these kind of insane ideas.

WhiteAlice
reply to post by Catacomb

 

I think that if we actually prosecuted real war crimes in the real world that it'd probably be a better start.

Now thats what Im talking about!!

can tell none of them have been in combat before and have no clue as to what REALLY happens on the battlefield.

hillbilly4rent
Damn campers

Secound line for the heck of it.

And those damned ninjas !

And Rabid creatures running around !

It's ok though, horsewhip them all !

Part of my background is in game design. This is utterly ridiculous. Most people don't play games because they want a hyper realistic simulation. They play games like these because they want a stylized approximation that makes them the hero. Games are meant to be a fantasy, some games have graphics we consider realistic (though we've been saying that for 15 years now... go look at a game from 15 years ago) but looking real and being real are very different things.

TV looks real too, it looks even more real than games... we don't have these articles popping up saying things like 24 needs to show more consequences of getting involved in firefights every 3 hours.

Even if we perfect virtual reality one day, nothing will change. Games are about glorifying the fun, exciting, and interesting parts of an experience while minimizing the bad. We don't need to include things like the Geneva Convention in games.

Aazadan
Part of my background is in game design. This is utterly ridiculous. Most people don't play games because they want a hyper realistic simulation. They play games like these because they want a stylized approximation that makes them the hero. Games are meant to be a fantasy, some games have graphics we consider realistic (though we've been saying that for 15 years now... go look at a game from 15 years ago) but looking real and being real are very different things.

TV looks real too, it looks even more real than games... we don't have these articles popping up saying things like 24 needs to show more consequences of getting involved in firefights every 3 hours.

Even if we perfect virtual reality one day, nothing will change. Games are about glorifying the fun, exciting, and interesting parts of an experience while minimizing the bad. We don't need to include things like the Geneva Convention in games.

I hear what you are saying but games that DO factor in your behavior add yet another layer to them. For example the whole Ultima series is built on the 8 Virtues and rewarded you for proper moral behavior and punished you for "not so nice" behavior. I found it and other games like that thoroughly enjoyable. I also just like to hack and slash and be stupid at well. I think there are times where it adds to a game however trying to "Mandate" it will be doomed to failure. You couldn't even stop people from being Griefer's in Ultima, even with the penalties associated with boorish behavior.

First try to focus/fix on real world war crimes equally and then lets focus on games.. and btw if they somehow mixed drones for game, then its another topic ehehh

pavil
I hear what you are saying but games that DO factor in your behavior add yet another layer to them. For example the whole Ultima series is built on the 8 Virtues and rewarded you for proper moral behavior and punished you for "not so nice" behavior. I found it and other games like that thoroughly enjoyable. I also just like to hack and slash and be stupid at well. I think there are times where it adds to a game however trying to "Mandate" it will be doomed to failure. You couldn't even stop people from being Griefer's in Ultima, even with the penalties associated with boorish behavior.

It depends on the game, any good game has rules. Sometimes they're rules you can't break and sometimes they're rules that have consequences to breaking them. The difference is, people are playing Ultima games to be a different type of hero (or I suppose villain in Ultima Online). In that game including the virtues adds to the game, it's considerably different from including the Geneva Convention into Battlefield X because that happens to be a real world rule.

To me this suggestion of adding the Geneva Convention to war games is as absurd as saying Mario can't jump on turtles because it's animal abuse.

If it's something that the creator our owner of the game "Wants" to do then it's fine. If that system works for most people then other games will follow. Like all Consumer products that make Big Changes, if it catches on where people want it then it will evolve itself.

Should any form of Government or Suit make Binding policies in our Games.. Hell No! Cause that's when Slopes get Slippery, 9 times out of 10 they become Land Slides. Until were all buried in legislative Bull Shnit!!

MidnightTide
can tell none of them have been in combat before and have no clue as to what REALLY happens on the battlefield.

Absolutely. No matter how "realistic" a game is, it is nothing at all like reality. First, there is the obvious lack of risk to losing one's life. Die in a game? It's okay, you can start over or pick up from where you erred. Secondly, graphical representation of gore is nothing like the reality of it where it's basically hitting all of your senses in perfect detail. The brain can determine between what is real and what isn't. Plus, in a game, as your comrades fall around you, you know that they're going to get back up and that they are not permanently "gone". Heck, in some cases, you can keep talking to the "deceased" until they respawn if you're using a chat program. Not so in a real battlefield. A fallen soldier is gone.

That's why gamers don't get PTSD. I've never been on a battlefield personally (medical disqualification--hemorrhagic disorder so never could be even if I wanted to) but my grandfather was and I know that he experienced some truly horrendous things during those times of war. Kids who think they know what war is like because they play Call of Duty should probably talk to a combat vet.

John_Rodger_Cornman
reply to post by hknudzkknexnt

 

WTF?

Is the world going insane? In-game war crimes to simulated people?

They are not real. C'm on man...

There is a historical precedent....apparently nazis used to run head first into walls until they'd fall through the ground and into some unknown space where they'd kill hordes of allied soldiers simply by shooting up through the ground.



Lol.

In an American version you can just set "ignore international law and Den Haag" in the options and play like always