Principal lets Gideon's group give bibles to elementary students!

reply to post by sheepslayer247


Can't agree more on the fundraisers. I think in such cases the school should make it very clear just how much they are making vs. the corporation, and then encourage the parents to donate that amount if they don't want the overpriced crap.

Edited to say that bibles do not belong in public schools, with the exception of in the library. Those of you who come here saying it is ok because they what's you believe, need to get a grip on yourselves. Your Jesus would not be proud of you - just a reminder.

CB328
The government is not allowed to promote any religion, it's clearly unconstitutional, but of course conservatives don't actually care about the constitution- they just like to whine about it.

I’ve come realize its one party, self-righteous, libturds like yourself who are destroying this country! Have you not figured out yet, that it’s both parties destroying this country? If not, you are truly lost!

ownbestenemy

CB328
The government is not allowed to promote any religion, it's clearly unconstitutional, but of course conservatives don't actually care about the constitution- they just like to whine about it.

What government is promoting religion in this case? Will you respond or just do your normal one-hit wonders and run?

Trolls usually run back into their holes when confronted with reality. The key is not to follow him in.

Edited to say that bibles do not belong in public schools, with the exception of in the library. Those of you who come here saying it is ok because they what's you believe, need to get a grip on yourselves. Your Jesus would not be proud of you - just a reminder.

Interesting because in my public school many years ago, as a literature assignment (given the fact that the Bible is the most read book in the world), we read out of Kings. Not for the philosophy or theological aspects. We read because of the poetry, the prose, the story.

That is called education. No kid converted, no pressure was placed upon us. It was mere reading of literature and if that scares you, it begs me to ask: what other literature scares you that you believe should not be allowed in public schools?

leostokes

BattleStarGal
I work at an elementary school in Kentucky, and I had to share this real quick. I just watched the principal allow a local Gideon's group to enter the school and give out bibles to students! I am OUTRAGED! You can't force religion down the throats of young kids while they are at a PUBLIC SCHOOL! I even took photos of the horrendous event!

Is not that a violation of the Constitutional separation of church and state?
Every public official now has a license to ignore our grand constitution because of the criminal disregard of it by our elected politicians who swore to uphold it.

The Bible is a great book and everyone should study it. But they should make that decision by themselves.

Please stop!
If you want to quote the first amendment. ........ fine.
But please do not use the term "separation of church and state" and "constitution" in the same sentance.
The phrase is not in the constitution.
The First Amendment was written in part so "we the people" would not have to live in fear of a Church run state.
It was not written to keep children from reading the bible if they want.
A few interesting facts....
The bible was widely used as the sole text book in many public schools.
The State Building in DC was used as a Church on Sundays for many years.
The term "separation of church and state" is not in the constitution. It was noted as " a wall of separation" in a private letter written by Thomas Jefferson to the Danburry Babtist Association.
Quad

You're outraged? Wow, that's very sad, I feel very sorry for you. My first thought was "Yes!" There are at least some good people left in positions of power.

What kind of evil person would give a Bible to a child? A book about morals and a belief in something bigger and more important than oneself. What a crock. Our kids shouldn't be exposed to such lessons, especially in school!

Is it any wonder that our Country is in such a mess?
The first amendment is clear. A child could understand what the framers were talking about if they understood the history behind it.
Read the first amendment for yourself. But keep in mind how oppressive the Church of England was at the time it was written.
It is all sumed up in "my quote" at the bottom of this post.

Giving children the choice of taking a bible is not againt the first amendment. Forcing them to take a copy is.

I see many post saying giving them the choice is against the law.......... which law is that?
Quad

I wasn't aware that this was such a big deal in the States. Here in Canada, I remember when I was in about grade 5 or so, the Gideons came to our school and did the same thing. And for the record... that would have been about twenty years ago. That was in a public school, as well; I didn't ever attend a Catholic school, so I don't know if it was done there as well, but I wouldn't be surprised. As far as I know, it's still done; I haven't heard anything to the contrary, anyway.

reply to post by DragonsDemesne


Your Constitution doesn't have an establishment clause as ours does. That said, our First Amendment doesn't explicitly separate the State and the the Church save one important aspect. It 'establishes' that our Federal Government will never be a State dictated by a religious body, such as the Church of England or any other religious entity that has a place within the confines of a Governmental body.

Our term "separation of Church and State..." is derived from a letter from Thomas Jefferson and is one of many (but what people only hold to) opinions of what the First Amendment means.

WeAreAWAKE
What kind of evil person would give a Bible to a child? A book about morals and a belief in something bigger and more important than oneself. What a crock. Our kids shouldn't be exposed to such lessons, especially in school!

In the interests of education, children should be "exposed" to the Bible as it provides context. Why do people feel it necessary to constrain education by "burning the books". Children should be taught so the they can weigh up the facts and make their own choices, not so that they have no facts to make objective choices. You promote the "keep them ignorant" approach, so loved by the cynical, bad politicians and dictators.

Regards

reply to post by paraphi

I think that post was supposed to be sarcastic.

Or at least I hope it was..........

Quadrivium
I think that post was supposed to be sarcastic.

Ah. Well, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, to quote Oscar Wilde.

Regards

WeAreAWAKE
A book about morals and a belief in something bigger and more important than oneself.

You either haven't read it or are cherry picking it massively. Even the so called sugary/syrupy "good" bits lose some gloss when you realize it is in dedication to/worship of a claimed (almost certainly fictitious) primitive human sacrifice. An ignorant first century middle eastern goat herder's/fisherman's retake on throwing people into a volcano to appease the gods.

paraphi
You promote the "keep them ignorant" approach, so loved by the cynical, bad politicians and dictators.

Then surely such an approach would also allow literature from Scientology, Hare Krishna's, Wicca, Satan Worship, Rastafarian's, Shinto, Taoism, Buddhism, Voodoo, Rosea Crucis, Druidism, Rainbow Serpent, Jediism, Luciferianism, Bahai, John Frum, Prince Phillipians, Mithra etc........just to mention a few, so as to allow a choice.....and not promote ignorance.....

That mightn't be a bad idea, at least they will then see the bible as no more believable (perhaps less so) than any of the others. It could also be have info on cult psychology, the basic psychology of delusion, the Peoples Temple, Heaven's Gate and many others.....to show what can happen when people take such nonsense too seriously......in the interests of not promoting ignorance......

Or perhaps they could just keep religion out of such basic education altogether, so that people can seek it out on their own, of their own volition, when they are mature enough, if they want it.

Could there be a better way to create an atheist, than to get a normal mature person (who hasn't suffered indoctrination) to read the bible?

BattleStarGal
I work at an elementary school in Kentucky, and I had to share this real quick. I just watched the principal allow a local Gideon's group to enter the school and give out bibles to students! I am OUTRAGED! You can't force religion down the throats of young kids while they are at a PUBLIC SCHOOL! I even took photos of the horrendous event!

Giving someone a Bible is not forcing religion down anyone, furthermore, the Bible in the US was the historical school book. It was used to teach literature, English and comprehension.

It's tiresome, tedious to hear the old lame arguments that the Bible was never intended to be in schools, that the Constitution forbids it blah blah blah.

The Bibles were a routine text book in schools until around the 1930s.

ownbestenemy
reply to post by DragonsDemesne

 

Your Constitution doesn't have an establishment clause as ours does. That said, our First Amendment doesn't explicitly separate the State and the the Church save one important aspect. It 'establishes' that our Federal Government will never be a State dictated by a religious body, such as the Church of England or any other religious entity that has a place within the confines of a Governmental body.

Our term "separation of Church and State..." is derived from a letter from Thomas Jefferson and is one of many (but what people only hold to) opinions of what the First Amendment means.

There really is no "opinion" about what the First Amendment means, Thomas Jefferson wasn't commenting on the First Amendment but on what he thinks should define a state.

The First Amendment clearly says "Congress shall pass no law respecting the establishment of a religion."

Two important parts, Congress, and Establishment.

Congress is the Federal Government, and Establishment is a Church established by tax money.

It's hard to go beyond that in the First Amendment...except through dictatorial reinterpretation which the Supreme Court always does.

Sorry for the delayed reply; I was out of town all week and just got back. Anyway, to the point...

I can certainly accept a separation of church and state; one should not be able to dictate to the other how to run things. (and I say that as a deeply religious person) I do, however, think it is a good idea for people to be exposed to as many different viewpoints as possible; in fact, this is one of the main goals of education, i.e. to educate people and help them learn how to make their own choices.

Speaking from my own experiences, what I recall is that the Gideons came to our school, and they gave a short presentation in our homeroom class about who they were and why they were doing what they did, and then anybody who wanted one could take a Gideon's Bible. There wasn't any pressure to take one. I'm pretty sure most of the kids did, if memory serves, but I'll be very surprised if more than one or two ever actually cracked the spine of their copy.

Being Christian myself, I definitely have a strong bias here, but I'm curious whether my reaction would be any different had it been Muslims bringing Korans to class, or something like that. I still think it's a good idea to learn about other religions, even for those who already have a religion or are atheist. Regardless of whether we think a particular religion has any value or not, the indisputable fact is that there on Earth ~1+ billion Christians, ~1+ billion Muslims, and so on, and we all interact with people of faiths other than our own on a daily basis, and it is a good thing to know more about the people around you. I have absolutely no intention of changing my religion, for example, but I still have a Koran, a Tibetan Book of the Dead, and a few other religious texts on my bookshelf, simply for the sake of learning.

If it's against the law as buster says, then that's that.

If not, then they should be allowed to give out Bibles. And Qurans. Whatever Scientology's Book Is Called. And so on.

If you want to convince the religious right that things of this nature are wrong, what better way to do it than extend that ability to religions they don't like?

Maybe atheists/agnostics/deists can give out specialized versions of these religious texts with highlighted parts that show the darkside of these texts.

WeAreAWAKE
What kind of evil person would give a Bible to a child? A book about morals and a belief in something bigger and more important than oneself. What a crock. Our kids shouldn't be exposed to such lessons, especially in school!

Well if you ignore sites like Skeptic's Annotated Bible, then yes you're absolutely correct.

In a way, this sounds a lot like the MJ debate:

"It's a harmless plant!"
"It's a harmless book!"

"It's a crime that we can't smoke a little grass in the privacy of our home!"
"It's a crime that we can't talk about God in our schools!"

"If alcohol is legal then cannabis should be legal!"
"If you are handing out Bibles you have to handout the Qur'an!"

"It can actually be good for you!"
"It can actually be good for you!"


The similarities are uncanny.