Pope Francis Tosses Out Vatican Constitution. Rewrite Going On Oct 1-3

This new pope is how its supposed to be. He's trying to be selfless, frugal, basic, minimalist, accepting of all humans, nonjudgmental, loving, forgiving, and trying to include all of humanity as One.

Exactly what all of us should be like regardless of religion

reply to post by FlyersFan


It has occurred to me, since the pope was elected, if the prophesy was/is a reflection of the mindset of the time. These changes would indeed be very bad, anti everything they believed. No doubt many of the old guard so to speak will consider it near blasphemy.

I'm not really sure what to make of this, though it sounds like a change in the legal and bureaucratic aspect of the Vatican state, more than any doctrinal thing, though this makes me nervous:

“In the past the Vatican has just revised existing rules so this is a rupture after a century of increasing centralisation,” said Gerard O’Connell, a Vatican analyst at the Vatican Insider.

"Cardinal Maradiaga is hinting that the Pope is asking the fundamental question: What can be decided in Rome and what at local level? How can the Roman Curia serve bishops instead of being an office of censure and control?”

O’Connell cited Japanese bishops as victims of the Vatican’s centralisation.

“They must ask advice from Rome on the correct Japanese to use in their liturgies, yet you would think they would be the best judge.” (Source)

I am long on record as believing that one of the fundamental flaws of many Protestant denominations is the ability of local congregations to "roll their own" theology and practices, and this appears to be a (small) step in that direction for the Catholic church. I see such an allowance as becoming schismatic if it is allowed to go too far, and I suspect that it will be allowed to go too far.

reply to post by FlyersFan


And let's not forget Judaism. Yes, even Rabbi's have had a tendency to fondle little children. Within every religion, you'll have scum using their position to get them what they want.

As for the change in the constitution, I have mixed emotions. On one hand, it's great to stir up the establishment. Maybe some new, good things will come from this. One can only hope!

reply to post by adjensen

Then I'm not so far off the mark. Eventually, though not overnight, it could potentially re-define what it means to be Catholic. Just as being a Protestant can mean a lot of different things.

Change of governance, eventually affects doctrine as well.

1 Corinthians 3

...For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos...

It will be interesting to see where this goes from here.

reply to post by adjensen


Yes .. if he changes it too much then the Catholic Church will be protestant.
The Pope and the Vatican are a big difference between Catholicism and Protestantism.

FlyersFan
reply to post by adjensen

 

Yes .. if he changes it too much then the Catholic Church will be protestant.

What I see potentially happening is that a Bishop implements changes within a diocese that seem culturally or socially provident to him, those changes foment other changes, and all of the sudden you have a very different Catholicism in that diocese, at which point the Curia steps up and says "no, stop doing that, or you'll be in trouble", some of the parishes do stop, others say "bollocks to you" and excommunicate themselves.

Witness the controversy of the Leadership Conference of Women Religious, and imagine that extending across the world.

reply to post by adjensen

Witness the controversy of the Leadership Conference of Women Religious, and imagine that extending across the world.

One can only hope!

reply to post by windword


Yes, because chaos and dissention are the best way to operate an organization.

I think the Catholic church is performing a PR stunt after the whole pedofile scandle, just like any other big corporation.

I think the company is changing it's face and trying to replace the old reputation with a new improved one.

If I see justice for all of the children instigated by the church I will eat my words.

reply to post by adjensen

Yes, because chaos and dissention are the best way to operate an organization.

Every empire eventually falls. Why should the Roman Catholic Church be any different? One must either bend with the winds of change or be broken by the gale.

reply to post by Tsu322

If I see justice for all of the children instigated by the church I will eat my words.

Justice is a blind old crone with poor hearing and chronic arthritis. Most days, she can't be bothered applying herself because justice has become little more than the pruning of a dead tree. Not nearly as rewarding as it is arduous and taxing.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by adjensen

 

Yes, because chaos and dissention are the best way to operate an organization.

Every empire eventually falls. Why should the Roman Catholic Church be any different? One must either bend with the winds of change or be broken by the gale.

It isn't an empire, it's a church, and the strength of the church for 2,000 years has been its teaching and its consistency across the faith. The church changes, as the facts of reality are revealed, such as through science, but it doesn't change to reflect societal views, because those are as ephemeral as the "winds of change".

reply to post by FlyersFan

Oh .. the old guard at the Vatican are going to HATE him!!

I think that they do now, not going to... but I hear ya. I think you're right on the money. I'm happy to be a Catholic again.

Well that's a power grab if I ever saw one. And not by the pope.

Who cares. Churches are so 'old empire'.. its all an agenda anyways.

Churches were used a couple thousand years ago, to control the spiritually declined people. In an age where people couldnt read nor write, or think for themselves.

This is a new age, today the people are more educated, expansive, and science is becoming the main religion of the new age.

The Vaticant, is vacant of moral and honest leaders. Its wake up time for the 1 billion followers anyways, they have been sleeping far to long..

So could this power structure, instead of having one head, look more like it has seven heads? With ten horns maybe?

reply to post by adjensen

the strength of the church for 2,000 years has been its teaching and its consistency across the faith

Agreed, however, I feel that as long as the 'new' constitution is based upon the Greatest Commandment, then any change can only be positive and hopefully eliminate ostracising others.

BUT

The "Game-Changer" would be the pope finally allowing access to the Vatican Archives, and accepting any consequential effect resultant from said access.

Including, but not limited to..."the great falling away so that the man of sin can be revealed, the son of perdition"

Either way, I like this pope, he's alright and has thus far been a positive force for the church.

reply to post by Sublimecraft

The "Game-Changer" would be the pope finally allowing access to the Vatican Archives, and accepting any consequential effect resultant from said access.

You mean the "Secret Vatican Archives"?

Open academic access to those have been available since the 1800s, and they're in the process of digitizing and getting stuff online for the past decade or so.

covertpanther
Who cares. Churches are so 'old empire'...

The power of the Vatican is more than just 'old empire church'.
The Vatican bank and the powers that be in the Vatican have
literally had people killed who tried to get in their way.
This pope is restructuring and taking power out of the Vatican.
He's cleaning things up. (IMHO)