What would happen to me if I were caught working in MEXICO with no papers? Why is it okay for them?

Wrabbit2000

Broom
reply to post by Phage

 

How many people realize that the idea of ILLEGAL immigration is a recent invention of evil, narrow-minded, people.

edit on 30-9-2013 by Broom because: (no reason given)

What part of committing a federal felony crime by merely standing anywhere inside the borders of the United States don't some people get??

It's not hateful. I'll be happy to hear about their good life...ELSEWHERE. Now, if they'd like to come back legally, and properly? Hell.. That might take time. Require patience, and work and the chance they get told NO. (Like the millions of others who have gone through the RIGHT process...the RIGHT way)

I don't give a damn if someone is brown, black, yellow or purple with white polka dots. Really. Same same top to bottom and illegal is illegal. Illegal can carry their lawless butts elsewhere. Promptly, I'd ask. (Or when the current President and his lawless fools leave, the criminals can get some HELP leaving.)

edit on 30-9-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

The idea that you had to have permission to pass frontiers or borders is a recent invention.

Let me give you an example. When Europeans found the "new world" and landed in the Americas, did they need some sort of passport, or immigration papers to populate the land?

How about new migrants coming to the Americas? Did they need immigration papers, or special government sancationed permisson?

That is recent history.

If you go back further, you will never read anywhere where human migration was prohibited to only "legal" migrants who had permission. Foriengers were allowed freely to pass through territories and nations, with impunity.

Modern history has seen the rise of restriction of migration/immigration, due to many factors.

The broom apologies that many who read that statement made by him quoted above, has not been understood by many, or at least some. For it has been misunderstood in this thread on various occasions.

The broom also realizes that most are not very literate on history, or understanding of human immigration/migration and its causes. This statement is self-evident by many of the comments made in this thread alone.

Imagine how ignorant the world in general is of these issues?

kurthall
reply to post by Broom

 

If I am so narrow minded, PLEASE go to a county hospital here in So Cal. 70% of the people in the ER are illegal and we have to wait for 12 hrs to see a doctor. These people are getting free healthcare. The thing that angers me most, it has gotten so bad that some county hospitals have been on the verge of shutting down. So why are we REPEATEDLY treating illegals flu and colds FOR FREE? We need to take care of our own LEGAL citizens before we worry about someone who is breaking the law, and has no business even being in this country.

If paying for health-care for people you think don't deserve it irks you (tax-payer money), how irksome is it to you that much, much, much, much, much, much, much more of your taxpayer money goes to the military and arms and weapons of destruction, and research into killing people?

That is not a rhetorical question. The broom is curious as to what your response will be.

kurthall
What would happen to me if I were caught working in MEXICO with no papers? Why is it okay for them?

Ask their employers.







(hint: they do what you do, only cheaper)

HanzHenry

mysterioustranger
All this may be wrong now-a-days. Im 6 miles from the Canadian-Windsor-Detroit border. It used to be we Americans would need a job 1st waiting to move or go over to Windsor for employment.

We couldnt (maybe still cant)...just move there and start over. And you would need permission to move over the border.

SO, immigrants:
1. take jobs
2. lower the wage scale
3. crowd housing making the supply demand favor landlords over renters
4. ruin what used to be decent schools, suck money away from American kids for special programs that teach English
5. because of Affirmative Action, their kids will ---> GET JOB preference and college placement preference OVER AN AMERICAN!

The broom looks at this more subjectively. For example number two. The main reason for the lowering of wages is not immigration. It is world economics. As jobs are out-sourced to other lands, because of globalization, Americans are now competing with people from places such as in China and Asia, who will be paid much much less.

It is really laws passed by the government, with the help of greedy big business that is causing the economic hardship in the first world countries.

Immigration may be an easy scape-goat to shake a fist at. Narrow-minded people with evil agendas use immigration all over the world, as a reason for their failing governments and economies. While the real reasons remain ignored.

reply to post by Broom

The idea that you had to have permission to pass frontiers or borders is a recent invention.

Where did you get that idea? Or... Perhaps.. what do you define as recent? Let's see...

The Aryans stomped across the Indian Border out of the Russian Steppes in 1,500 B.C., bringing the Harrapan way of life to a close....

The Persians and Greeks had some serious disagreements on borders and absolutely did not mix well on any level in a give/take kinda thing. They even made a movie about one famous battle...300.. Although not the largest or necessarily most pivotal battle over the wars between Persia and the Greek City/States.

Alexander the Great kinda stomped all over borders from Greece to India and back to Iraq before he went to the great battlefield beyond. He dropped greeks around the lands behind him to help turn the world Greek. Immigration wasn't encouraged, it was used as a strategic tool. Not for the first or last time in history, I'd note.

I seem to recall England and France having several years, a few times, to really disagree in pointed ways about the concept of respect for borders between them. In fact, borders have been the subject of war across Europe for most of recorded time to one level or another.


As we speak, Roma, North Africans and others are being run out of areas of Europe to varying degree in a backlash to the avalanche. Much like Americans with various origins. It is not just Hispanic. South Florida is a mix of the Island nations. Some areas in Michigan? Arab. Somali around the Twin Cities with Chinese heavily represented in some West Coast communities, at least traditionally.

Those are not illegals I feel anger toward...only pity and they need enforcement too.


If the WHOLE WORLD wanted to drop borders...Well, I'd sure like to see how that works out, and maybe chat about it after watching for a bit. The U.S. just playing like borders don't exist? Well, that's a sure way to national, cultural and societal suicide. It won't even take long ...and history is absolutely replete with examples of it happening. Repeatedly.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


The broom sees that you are confusing world-conquest and migration. Even while, for say example, the Romans were conquering the known world, the people whom they conquered were still allowed free access and travel through the Empire.

The same can be said of all other world powers throughout history, and lesser ones. The broom was not trying to state war has not existed, and does not exist. And while it is true, when one nation is at war with another, there are raised tensions between the ethnic and national groups involved, and this perhaps to some extent exacerbated human migration. It did not prevent it.

Foreigners were allowed into other lands without need of special papers or government sanctions all throughout history.

The idea of the restriction of immigration to those who are "legal" to do so is a modern-day invention.

Your example of the conquest of Alexander the Great of the ancient world, is not proof that the Phoenician Empire, and later the four that sprang from it, required green papers, or official documents that allowed travel from nation to nation.

You could have a family and decide to move, let's say from Syria, to Crete. And you could do so. Not saying it was always the best move. Racial and ethnic hatred has always existed. Yet there was nothing stopping you from doing so.

One example of this fact is the Jewish race. They were hated by many groups of people in the ancient world, and even conquered on a number of occasions, such as by the Assyrians, the Babylonians, and later the Romans. But even when the Romans conquered the Jews, and even before they did, the Jews still had free access to migrate and travel through its borders with impunity. This is seen in the fact that Jewish communities can be found all throughout the ancient world. From the Ptolemaic Egyptian dynasty, to Syria, Greece, Rome, and even what is known as modern-day Spain.

Illegal immigration did not exist in the past. It is a recent invention of man.

Arrest people for WORKING.

That's awesome. Hey, let's arrest Americans for NOT working - then they would go and do the work that "hispanics" are currently doing... then the "hispanics" would have no reason to come here.

That's what's so funny to me. People say there aren't jobs but millions - MILLIONS of people sneak here to work those jobs. They live together, ride bikes miles to go work like dogs, then ride miles BACK afterwards until they can get money to buy a ride.

Then they carpool to various worksites and continue to save money - all for the collective. They shop at our stores, eat at our restaurants all by doing the work that others are too proud, too lazy, or too soft to do.

Yes they do get access to services they might not pay for - but I would wager they would all line up to pay taxes if exchange for citizenship. The problem isn't that they don't want it, the problem is that it is unattainable under the current bureaucracy.

The speaking English argument is BS. Say you want to go work in China. I say China because Chinese is probably the hardest language to learn outside of English. What would you do, wait the 7 years it would take to become fluent before you took that job OR go immerse yourself in the culture (which BTW any instructor will tell you is the BEST way to learn) and get that job? What if you had family depending on that job?

You're a liar if you say you wouldn't jump in and fake it until you make it. Do you understand the solid brass ones it takes to do something like that?

I for one would rather deport those "Americans" sitting on their tails collecting taxpayer money while texting on their iPhones, drinking, having babies and complaining about how bad they have it.

Of the two groups, which is the more American?

Shut up.

Do any of these "illegals" have production knowledge? Send one my way!

These people are generally doing work that the local populace don't want. I work on a farm myself, and we have gone through 5 production managers in 2 months for a chicken manure plant because they weren't happy with the pay or working conditions or one thing or another. This is also why my employer hires a lot of backpackers. Legally entitled to work in our country, but happy to do the work that we don't want.

My point is: They are doing jobs that we don't want to do. Our own people turn their nose up at them. How is this "stealing jobs"?

Don't get me wrong, I feel that they should be entering the country legally, but surely illegals aren't taking positions that you would actually want anyway?

reply to post by cenpuppie


so "generously" speaking. 1 out of every 20 people are here "illegally". 1: please state your sources. 2:i live in so cal too, and i haven't had too many issues getting work. i go to school full time, and work full time. and dont mind paying "illegal" immigrants to mow my lawn (which i do) because i dont have time

reply to post by Broom


Well, perhaps I could suggest 'The Broom' (odd..people who talk about themselves in the third person, as if split people) look into not just social issues and economics but for history? Basic issues of Geography are critical as well.

Some people seem to think wars have primarily been about religion. Phooey... Some big ones have been...but most have been the same as they are today. Pressures and Tensions formed from a lack of resources in some areas with high population while resources are plentiful in others with what is seen as comparatively low or weak population in some critical way. So migration happens ..as one of many factors...raising tensions between nations and pressuring resources further. Eventually, someone gets mad enough to shoot over it before settling back for another cycle.

It's a cycle played out over and over, as I'm learning more recently than I ever did in grade school. They don't teach squat in k-12, compared to just 101 college. This ought to be 12th grade level, IMO. Not University/College.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Wars have many causes. In the past religion and government went hand in hand. Not so much today. But those in power have always abused and manipulated religion for their own selfish interests. Political rulers around the world still do this today.

And it goes without questioning that warfare, throughout history, has shaped the migration patterns of the world. That is not up for debate. It just appears how many, without thinking, assume that immigration issues were handled the same in the past as they are handled today.

That was the point of the very simple statement on the first page of this post. Within the statement is a very complex understanding of world events.

Anyway, thank you for your input.

reply to post by winofiend


I totally did not get the point of your reply.

Could you restate your position please in English?

reply to post by Phage


I lived in a beautiful colonial town in Mexico for a time while studying Spanish.

Trust me. Moving to Mexico is a big undertaking. You have to show up front that you are economically viable so that you won't be a burden to their government by moving there.

It isn't easy to move to Mexico by any means. They have very strict immigration laws. Just ask all the retirees there that have done it.

Immigration to Mexico has to be done carefully and with a lot of expertise, requiring most people to hire an immigration attorney.

reply to post by MRuss

I know. I wasn't being entirely serious.

A close friend of mine had been working on doing so for a long time. She finally did it a couple of months ago. Sorry to say she died of a heart attack shortly after getting there. Sad, but at least she was where she wanted to be.

Wrabbit2000

Broom
reply to post by Phage

 

How many people realize that the idea of ILLEGAL immigration is a recent invention of evil, narrow-minded, people.

edit on 30-9-2013 by Broom because: (no reason given)

What part of committing a federal felony crime by merely standing anywhere inside the borders of the United States don't some people get??

It's not hateful. I'll be happy to hear about their good life...ELSEWHERE. Now, if they'd like to come back legally, and properly? Hell.. That might take time. Require patience, and work and the chance they get told NO. (Like the millions of others who have gone through the RIGHT process...the RIGHT way)

I don't give a damn if someone is brown, black, yellow or purple with white polka dots. Really. Same same top to bottom and illegal is illegal. Illegal can carry their lawless butts elsewhere. Promptly, I'd ask. (Or when the current President and his lawless fools leave, the criminals can get some HELP leaving.)

edit on 30-9-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

So I guess you're one of those whose happy to comply with any law, no matter how screw up it can be, even if you're from one of those nations (like america) well known to approve laws from time to time which make it legal to violate certain basic human rights. Good to know!

MRuss
reply to post by Phage

 

I lived in a beautiful colonial town in Mexico for a time while studying Spanish.

Trust me. Moving to Mexico is a big undertaking. You have to show up front that you are economically viable so that you won't be a burden to their government by moving there.

It isn't easy to move to Mexico by any means. They have very strict immigration laws. Just ask all the retirees there that have done it.

Immigration to Mexico has to be done carefully and with a lot of expertise, requiring most people to hire an immigration attorney.

edit on 2-10-2013 by MRuss because: (no reason given)

Actually, $20 usually does the trick for just about anything down here. And from personal experience, there is no problem. Of course could just be the specific location.

Anyway, if you want to retire to a beach in Mexico with no hassle, and listen to Jimmy Buffet every night on the beach...just move to a town that has an open border policy with the United States. In Puerto Peñasco there are zero problems for Americans.

Well, I can agree if someone want's to be a citizen, they should go about the citizenship process the legal way.

But, your post seems filled with an undertone of racism.

And I'm sure your on the band wagon babbling about how Mexicans are taking all of our jobs. First of all, Mexicans usually take the crap jobs Americans don't even want to do. We Americans don't want to take hard working low paying jobs, for obvious reasons. And we've become rather pampered as a society. If a illegal citizen comes here. with no papers, probably no education, and doesn't even speak the dominant language, is it really that hard to assure yourself this person wouldn't be able to take your job in the first place? If they did then it's your fault, and it would be rather embarrassing if you ask me.

Everyone loves to say that we're the "greatest and wealthiest" country in the world, maybe even ever. Yet we're buried in debt. Things are worse than ever right now. Yet illegals still want to come here. Why's that? Because their standard of living in mexico isn't very good. They want a better opportunity for themselves and their families. The conditions in Mexico aren't good. The drinking water usually isn't clean, the education isn't as good, as well as many other things. Can you really blame them for trying to come here? Wouldn't you want to live in a better place? I'm sure that those people do, everyone does.

The truth is, most Mexicans are more motivated than us Americans. They live in less than ideal conditions. And that gives them motivation to try and go somewhere to better themselves. I've known Mexicans, and one thing I can say about them, is they are very hard workers, and they will take sweaty, dirty, low paying jobs if they have to. If you ask me, we actually need more people like that in this country. It seems like our society is slowing getting lazier and lazier.

I'll actually give you something as an alternative to rant and rave about. You want to complain about losing jobs? Why don't you complain to Volkswagon, Honda, or other foreign car companies, who have surpassed us in the automobile industry. Which is one of the reasons as to why American car companies needed bailouts and because Detroit is one of the poorest cities in the U.S.

Or, you can find numerous American companies who have been outsourcing jobs to numerous locations, such as the Philipines, Vietnam, China, India, and so on. All because they can get away with paying their workers lower wages, and the job laws aren't as strict as they are in the U.S. Plus in other countries the corporate tax right is lower, giving companies even more incentive to go elsewhere.

Industry in America has gone downhill. The only thing we're really good at nowadays is war to tell the truth.

So, if I were you, I'd find something in the bigger picture to complain about.

reply to post by Lingweenie


Actually the education system the broom has seen down here is better than the one it's familiar with from the United States. Also, you will be surprised to how many, intelligent, and studied people there are. Well, the broom used to think like you until seeing with my own eyes. (Yes, I have eyes.)

If you are not content with a little you wil not be with a lot.

Actually, if you ever try it, you will see that having less is better.

Broom
reply to post by Lingweenie

 

Actually the education system the broom has seen down here is better than the one it's familiar with from the United States. Also, you will be surprised to how many, intelligent, and studied people there are. Well, the broom used to think like you until seeing with my own eyes. (Yes, I have eyes.)

If you are not content with a little you wil not be with a lot.

Actually, if you ever try it, you will see that having less is better.

Yeah, actually their education may be pretty well compared to the U.S.

After all the education system in the U.S. has also been going down as well ass many other things. So yes the whole education part might not be as big of a motivating factor, anymore at least.

What I don't understand is why on earth you people are arguing about this issue like this......


Who cares where people are from, the problem with immigration in the US is not that they are 'coming here' you guys should really stop arguing that point, it's a very poor starting point.

The real issue is the piss poor job our government has done responding to an issue. The path to citizenship in the US is the problem, not the people coming here.

IT SHOULD NOT COST 50,000$ and 5 years of your life to become as US citizen. The process here is about extortion, and it needs to be changed, you people spend all this time on some peons argument about semantics and the morality of coming here illegally completely ignoring the actual problem.

If you tried to work in any country without a proper work permit you will get deported, arrested, or asked to leave.

Let's look at Chile for example, all you have to do to become a citizen in Chile is come in on a standard visa and get a job within 90 days. Once you have employment you can apply (quickly and without years of delay) for a 3 year work permit. As long as you remain employed for that time you can then apply for dual citizenship pay about 2000$ in fees and that's it, your done. The whole time you are in the system paying taxes and enjoy all the benifits of citizenship.

The united states has a horrible policy designed to extort rich migrants, do you people realize that all you have to do to get citizenship in the US is buy a 350K$ house and maintain it for a year and pay 10% of your homes value in cash and they will give you citizenship, regardless of any tests or other BS?

If we want to solve this problem we need an easy path to citizenship that gets people in the system and taxable.
We don't need to 'test' people on US history, or even make sure they speak english, it's a waste of time an resources. Their kids will go to school here and be nationalized. Stop providing free healthcare to anyone that comes into the door and start providing free healthcare to anyone who comes through the door with an ID.

There IS a difference.