Let's Stop Pretending that Obamacare is Socialism

reply to post by RobertAntonWeishaupt


we don't have to pretend OC is socialism
its socialism's brother, fascism.
more emphasis on private enterprise and personal profits. big power central government dictating, manipulating and controlling the people in order to create the elites vision of a perfect society.
socialism is heavier on the kumbiya and globalism. prefers to buy off public by handing out checks instead of using truncheons....until the money runs out.
other than that, pretty much the same.

spartacus699
And if you dont' believe me well it's just too bad. You'll soon have these guys knocking at your door with your new obama care!

sweet baby jesus...PLEASE tell me this is some kind of parody/comedy routine they're doing here..

i've got an idea...maybe it's a little radical, or crazy, but let's try it, ok?

instead of getting sidetracked, and arguing with one another about whether it's socialist, communist, corporatist, fascist, left, or right.......how about we ALL agree on the one thing that it is:

Bad.

how about we just do that, ok?

The most hilarious thing about talking to Americans about Healthcare is they almost always whip out their statistics showing how "awful" socialized healthcare is compared to American healthcare. Meanwhile, none of them have ever experienced socialized healthcare, and I could easily spend 30 minutes on the internet compiling statistics showing the American healthcare system is worse.

I'm an American, born and raised. I have also lived in countries where they use socialized medicine (7 years in Canada and soon to be more years in a different, western, modern country that also has socialized medicine) and the healthcare I have received in these countries has been equal to, if not better than the care I receive in the US. I have an auto-immune disorder that requires constant monitoring and I'm no stranger to being at the doctor.

Some people in America act like socialized medicine is some kind of abstract concept too difficult to understand let alone even actualize. Yet literally every single other western nation in the world uses this system every day, and it works just fine.

The real reason we do not have socialized healthcare in this country is the 1% and the corporations have programmed the herd to fight for their profits. Personally, I tend to want to fight for the good of mankind and the well-being of the many. Or perhaps people just think that there is an off-chance that they might be ultra-wealthy themselves one day and don't want the unwashed masses cutting into their potential profits.

reply to post by RobertAntonWeishaupt


This is well thought out and articulated. I have been wondering why people of certain faiths or denominations couldn't just come up with their own health exchanges, based on income, that would be much lower than what is required. If I make only $22,000 a year, I'd have to pay more than $1,000 a year for coverage, which is just grostequely expensive!

I would love to have health insurance for all, but this isn't right. You're so correct that it's just a form of indentured servitude to corporations. Something has to change.

reply to post by 727Sky


This Obamacare is such a farce it is sickening. I am from Canada, I enjoy my free health coverage, but you Americans are getting screwed out of your well being and you children/grandchildren's well being.

On a side note, you do realize you can take vitamin B12 pills, no need to go to a doctor:

www.kevinmd.com...tish-vitamin-b12-shots.html

reply to post by RobertAntonWeishaupt


Your Right , it's not . Obamacare is an Outrage !


" Ron Paul believes President Barack Obama's 2010 health care law, which forces Americans to buy private health insurance, is "an outrage" that the U.S. Supreme Court should have declared unconstitutional, but he doubts Republican leaders truly believe in individual choice .

Republican Leaders Do Not Believe in Individual Choice and neither do the Democrats . Meanwhile , the American People in a Vast Majority Do........... So , what are we gonna do about that People ?

reply to post by Fravashi


I'm not entirely sure how organizing insurance by religion would help bring down costs. These faith and denomination exchanges would be subject to the same distorted economic "realities" as the current clusterfornication.

The only thing that will actually bring down the costs of health care is to put an end to price gouging by our surreal medical industry in this country. The ridiculous cost of health insurance is a predatory byproduct of the ridiculous cost of medical care that we have. The two work in close collusion with one another (just look at the "billed cost" versus "negotiated pricing" on your next EOB.

Malynn
Or perhaps people just think that there is an off-chance that they might be ultra-wealthy themselves one day and don't want the unwashed masses cutting into their potential profits.

You just summed up the entire strategy of the GOP, the Koch Bros. and every other 1 percenter deluding the masses into joining their private Tea Party army.

The Dems always talk to people as if they are one disaster away from ruin.

The Repubs always talk to people as if they are one bootstrap pull from untold riches.

One of these things is (sadly) realistic, the other is a comforting fairy tale. Sadly, too many people opt to believe the fairy tale and so swear loyalty to their presumed future peers at the country club.

matafuchs
reply to post by mrnotobc

 

When you cannot pay the fine it will come out of your tax return...that is when people will flip out...

When that happens, people will flip out...Oh, when that happens people will riot....Oh well, if they try to do that, surely people will be in the streets... If cigarettes ever go up to a dollar a pack I'll quit...

NOTHING WILL EVER GET THE AMERICAN PEOPLE UP OFF THEIR SOFAS...SORRY, IT JUST AIN'T EVER GOING TO HAPPEN. AND IF IT DOES, IF IT EVEN GOES TO KINDLING, YOU WILL SEE THAT THE SPARKS OF ANY UPRISING WILL BE SMOTHERED INSTANTLY AND COMPLETELY.

The opportunity for Hope & Change in this Country was lost long, long ago.

reply to post by odd1out


By flip out, I meant people will complain while they spend their last 5 bucks at Starbucks and let the power at home get turned off and tweet about it on free wifi till their cell minutes run out...

RobertAntonWeishaupt
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

Here's the thing. Healthy people paying for the ills of unhealthy people is the very definition of health insurance regardless of who's coordinating the thing.

So you think (to use one of your examples) that Scottish non-smokers seeing a financial impact from smokers is evil because that impact is felt through a government program. News Flash for you: if you buy into one our private, free(ish) market health plans here in America, your premiums (which would be taxes in Scotland) are affected by the costs of treating smokers. Sure, you can point out that smokers pay more in premiums, but in Scotland they pay more in...you guessed it! Taxes. A pack of smokes in the UK runs the equivalent of about $13 - much of that is tax.

But you're objection to smokers affecting your prices is disingenuous. Your private health insurance premiums are determined by all sorts of horrible crap that your fellow insureds do to themselves: eating fast food, drinking, smoking, drug use, extreme sports, re-creating scenes from the TV show Jackass...all these things add to the claims experience of insurance companies and drive up premiums, just as they would drive up taxes in a nationalized system.

The big difference is that with a private company the people setting those premiums are driven by a strong profit motive.

edit on 1-10-2013 by RobertAntonWeishaupt because: (no reason given)

What object to smokers? I am a smoker myself. What I do not want to have is for other people to have to pay for my choice in smoking.

What I was alarmed by was the arrogant attitude that all people are covered under their health care system as he proudly proclaimed, but obviously he was wrong in that.

May I remind what was said...."NOT ONE" and "NO SINGLE" person should not have life saving medical care and if you want to choose life over profit, then choose life. Well that's all good and well to say that,but how many Gypsies until 2010 were denied...and how many since then, if the health care system website in Scotland says there are laws YET to be implemented.

I was using smoking as the example because that's the VERY ISSUE that was addressed by their website. It was not my website, it was theirs. Now convince me that Gypsies receive the same health care in Scotland, when Scotland itself says they do not.

Can we address the Gypsy issue? Can we also address why their government website has to even present the Gypsy issue in the first place? Apparently then, not ALL people in Scotland are receiving equal health care.

Malynn
The most hilarious thing about talking to Americans about Healthcare is they almost always whip out their statistics showing how "awful" socialized healthcare is compared to American healthcare. Meanwhile, none of them have ever experienced socialized healthcare, and I could easily spend 30 minutes on the internet compiling statistics showing the American healthcare system is worse...

Some people in America act like socialized medicine is some kind of abstract concept too difficult to understand let alone even actualize. Yet literally every single other western nation in the world uses this system every day, and it works just fine.

The real reason we do not have socialized healthcare in this country is the 1% and the corporations have programmed the herd to fight for their profits...

The thing is, I am American born & raised too and I HAVE EXPERIENCED SOCIALIZED MEDICINE. I was married to German citizen and spent four of the greatest years living in Germany (before the wall came down). I worked on a visitor's visa for the Hilton Hotel in Mainz and also as a Glazier in the same city. I have experienced socialized healthcare there and I have CONTINUOUSLY talked about it to anyone that would listen. I hear the arguments against it and they are LAUGHABLE. I received top notch care for a back injury and a very serious laceration that could have left me without the full use of my hand. Emergency microsurgery was performed and the results are phenomenal.

You hit the nail on the head about the socialized healthcare rhetoric here in the US.

reply to post by matafuchs


Oh, I guess I flipped out...Sorry

But you're right...and laughably, this is about the extent of "flipping out" we do; complaining at Starbucks, or like me (no better), ranting on the webs...

Fravashi
reply to post by RobertAntonWeishaupt

 

This is well thought out and articulated. I have been wondering why people of certain faiths or denominations couldn't just come up with their own health exchanges, based on income, that would be much lower than what is required. If I make only $22,000 a year, I'd have to pay more than $1,000 a year for coverage, which is just grostequely expensive!

I would love to have health insurance for all, but this isn't right. You're so correct that it's just a form of indentured servitude to corporations. Something has to change.

Um, there are health care services from different faiths and denominations as well as insurance....

May I remind you how many hospitals here came into being.

Cedars Sinai
Wake Forest Baptist
St. Jude
St. Joseph
Presbyterian Health
Wesleyan Health Care

And that's just to name a few.

And if you go into any hospital in the United States, they ask you your religious affiliation because they have clergy from all faiths to minister to you or give you end of life help, whatever you need.

reply to post by WarminIndy


Right. And they are no more cost effective or cheaper (by and large) than the non-denominational facilities. I was responding to a post which made denominational insurances sound like a possible solution. When, as you mention, religious affiliation is already a part of the medical landscape and isn't helping anything.