Christian Groups Sue to Stop Schools from Adopting Science Standards

BO XIAN
reply to post by Grimpachi

 

Ahhhh Sooooooo

one RELIGION [of scientism]

is suing about

another RELIGION

taking more strong armed !CONTROL! of the public indoctrination system.

There's a good thread on here that I don't have a handy link to . . . about the fallacies of "settled science."

The Bishops of the religion of scientism are no less narrow, rigid, authoritarian, willfully blind etc. than those they accuse of the same in the Christian camp.

Bo, sometimes I can accept yor views, and other times ...

scientism?

You do know that science is a science.. not a faith.. I mean , I can count and it always works out. maths. I can burn things, and it always burns stuff.. chemistry. I can drop things and they always fall if they're heavier than air.. physics.

I can pray.. and nothing ever happens... ever... religion.

Faith is ignorance. You want to force people to believe in faery tales by all means force your own children. Not mine.

Sorry...

But if you think science is a religion, then it proves just how ignorant the entire belief set is.

BO XIAN
reply to post by boymonkey74

 

Nope.

Not at all.

Idiocy based on faulty or wrong biases is still idiocy regardless on whose part it rests.

You seem to think that the religion of scientism has no idiocy.

Now THAT is hilarious.

I think it may be a toss up as to which field has more FACTS.

Ultimately, I have no doubt . . . at the present in terms of

"objectively proven" facts . . . I still think it's Christianity but it could be a toss-up.

Which human being told you about god, Bo?

Because you could not have heard about him without another human being telling you.

Science, however, exists without the need for another human being to be told... the facts are constant with or without humans to know them.

God only exists because humans talk about him.

So, why believe in god, and not the exalted indubitable blizzard man from the former planet pluto, who grants you eternal skittles in the after life, if you sacrifice 1 orange each morning?

Why not him? He is as true and real as god. If I say so.

reply to post by BO XIAN


In a science class there are bunsen burners, test tubes, thermometers, microscopes, slides of microscopic life, cells, the details of the function of life that can be tested and examined.

In a religious class there is a book.

Hmm...

reply to post by Phage


But where is the direct evidence? A theory is not evidence.
To me it seems a bit myopic to accept any belief with 100% certainty at this point in our time. Sure everyone has their belief, but to say your guess is better than someone else's without proof is a bit silly.

...And I see I'm among the minority of those here with an open mind.

reply to post by kx12x

But where is the direct evidence?

There is plenty of evidence. But if you want "direct evidence" just stick around for 20 or 30 thousand years.

A theory is not evidence.

Correct. A theory is a hypothesis which has supporting evidence.

but to say your guess is better than someone else's without proof is a bit silly.

There is "proof" of very little in this world. There is, however, evidence.

..And I see I'm among the minority of those here with an open mind.

I disagree with that assessment.

Is it just Evolution that they don't want taught to their kids or is it science classes in general?

Is it ok by these people that filed this suit to teach basic Chemistry? Physics? Biology? Psychology? Sociology? Or are those ok? Is it just Evolution that they don't want taught?

Where do they draw the line?

And every time I hear the words, "it's just an unproven theory.", I go back to this image...

reply to post by winofiend


God tends to answer the prayers MORE

of those who earnestly attempt to do what He's told them to do in His Word and directly.

I've had many prayers answered.

In terms of the religion of scientism . . . there's a fair amount written on it.

Basically . . . I gather you've not tried to publish anything that was solidly built on solid evidence but which disagreed significantly or at all with the cardinal doctrines of the religion of scientism as represented in the peer reviewed professional journals.

There's a ton of stuff about scientism that reeks of religion--and the worst aspects of religion, at that.

reply to post by winofiend


Wrong.

In my spiritual walk . . . there have been probably about as many proofs as there have been in my walk with science.

e.g. . . . raining on 4 sides of a drying mown hay field . . . but not on the desperately needed drying hay.

e.g. A counseling client virtually falling down drunk that seriously sobered instantly when I prayed so. I'd not have allowed her to drive home, otherwise.

e.g. being warned in my spirit about 3 attempts on my life via auto accidents as I was getting ready to leave for downtown San Diego from La Jolla . . . instructed to pray. The 3 auto accidents were 3 dramatic near misses--each one occurring but not resulting in my death. One was another bloke running a red light; another a horrific angle of a side-swipe and I forget the 3rd one.

And, you seem to be conveniently forgetting that . . . too much of science can be jiggled to present whatever result is wanted . . . much like statistics.

Do you really believe that plate tectonics explains reality in such realms fully?

Science can be useful. I love tech gadgets.

However . . . it is an insufficient foundation for displaying and proving ULTIMATE FOUNDATIONAL TRUTHS.

Wow! Is it any mystery that our educational system is failing? Being stupid is cool these days, and as Americans it’s our Constitutional right, by God! Just ask any Constitutional scholar around here - we’ve got a million of them.

I call it the Dumbification of America, and it’s a sad thing IMO. Sometimes I feel like I’m witnessing the fall of an Empire right before my eyes. It’s like a cultural meltdown is taking place, and we’re headed to Hell on a bobsled proudly proclaiming our right to do so the whole way. 30 years ago I wouldn’t have imagined that in my lifetime the USA might become a 3rd world country. I thought we had better DNA than that. Having a good education used to mean something.

Maybe I’m just getting old, but I can’t help but be a little concerned about the direction we’re heading. Our priorities and values have gotten all screwed up. We’re in the process of destroying all that we achieved in the last century and heading backward instead of moving ahead. It seems our whole society is having a mass psychotic breakdown. We don’t need to worry about some other country doing us in. Hell, we’ll just cut our own throats, thank you. It’s our Constitutional right, after all.

What a cryin’ shame. What a waste...

reply to post by Phage


One of the things I love about you Phage is the integrity of your fine mind . . . e.g.

the realization that there's little in this life and our finiteness which is unarguably 100% emphatically proven.

Thx.

reply to post by GAOTU789


I suspect that they accurately see all this as the camel's nose under the tent flap.

It's more the end result they see from the frog in the kettle strategy of the oligarchy that concerns them. And rightly so.

reply to post by Phage

Correct. A theory is a hypothesis which has supporting evidence.

What is the supporting evidence? Evolution proves we can adapt and change, but not that we came from apes. There are still too many pieces missing for me to believe, much less say it as fact. If we're 20 or 30 thousand years from the truth then I'd say we're counting our eggs before they hatch.

I was under the impression that, as a requirement, only evidence and facts are presented to the student, and not absolute truth. How does one present evidence and facts of that which has no evidence and facts?

As far as interpretations of the universe go, some theories are simply more elegant, rational and intuitive. In the end, I suppose it is up to the government to decide which level of quality in interpretation they would like to indoctrinate their children in. It would seem that a higher quality of interpretation—that which is based on concrete evidence and not mere story—would provide a more solid foundation for a student to work from.

reply to post by BO XIAN

e.g. A counseling client virtually falling down drunk that seriously sobered instantly when I prayed so. I'd not have allowed her to drive home, otherwise.

I guess if it helps you sleep at night. But no. One cannot pray away the effects of alcohol.

reply to post by GAOTU789


From what I have read its mainly evolution that they do not want taught. They are afraid that if their children LEARN at such a young age that they will not believe in religion.

reply to post by kx12x

There are still too many pieces missing for me to believe, much less say it as fact.

Then, apparently, your education was lacking and you have accepted too much that you have been told about evolutionary theory rather than actually studying it. And no, I'm not going to give you a lesson here but are you aware of more recent developments regarding genetic research?

Religion does not belong in public schools! Period!

To demonstrate the power of faith, and provide some support for blindly accepting Creationism, I think they should start offering snake handling classes. Hmmm, maybe even a class on the proper methods for ingesting strychnine wouldn’t be a bad idea, as well. It only makes sense...

reply to post by NiNjABackflip


Soooooooo, you are assuming that

1. I was distorting the truth

or

2. misperceiving reality

or

3. lying

or

4. hallucinating

or

anything but describing a factual event.

Trouble is, I was there.

And, I was as shocked as the client was.

I was just annoyed that she'd called me at 02:00 for an "emergency" session . . . and I'd checked about as well as I could on the phone and she'd insisted mostly convincingly that she wasn't drunk. When I got there, she WAS hopelessly drunk. I was angry. In my anger, I found myself praying quite forcefully and with full of conviction that she sober up immediately in the Name of Jesus.

She did and all the incredibly familiar results of being falling down drunk immediately disappeared.

I was there.

You weren't.

reply to post by netbound


No. It doesn't make sense.

God says quite clearly to NOT TEMPT THE LORD with such absurd testing of His graciousness.