Origins Of T2b Haplotype (mtDNA) And Why It Matters To History (And Me)

I was not sure where to put this, it contains religious references, but it is also about science. Mods can move this thread where they see it best goes.

Let me start off by saying that I have had my ancestry dna test already. The mtDNA haplotype assigned to me is T2b. Everyone wants to know who they are and what their origins are, so I researched T2b. This led to some interesting answers for me. I am a strong believer in genetic memory and have felt connections to different parts of history and places, but some things were not easily understood by me. I had always felt a connection to French, and that was proven in the DNA, but I also felt a strong connection to the Middle East. When reading the Bible, there were some people I felt intrinsically drawn to so much that they became the focus of the chapter I was reading.

T2b has its origins in Syria. According to Brian Sykes' book The Seven Daughters of Eve T2b is called Tara and had gone to Italy.

Ancestral Origins of T2b

I don't like to use Wikipedia when it comes to very important subjects, so if someone chooses to use Wikipedia in a reply, I would like you to cite the sources the author of the Wikipedia article used. The reason for this is because when it comes to scientific thoughts, it is much better to present the original author. (But sometimes Wikipedia is all you have to go on, so if there is nothing left but Wikipedia then by all means use it)

But where I am leading to is this, unless you know where your ancestors were 1,000 years ago, then you don't know at what point your ancestors where in an area. While there may have been women with T2b in Italy 17,000 years ago does not mean that my particular ancestress was there. She may have still been in Syria 2,000 years ago for all I know. And this is my starting point in the journey to my ancestress.

I wanted to know why T2b and T2e are called sisters. T2e is at this moment being considered as the genetic marker for Sephardic Jewish women, and that T2e was the result of Founder Effect. And this makes it important, because Ashkenazi women have an accepted haplotype now that has also the Founder Effect, but T2b doesn't seem to have that.

So I wanted to know where we originated and discovered that it was Syria. I wanted to know who was there and if the T2e is Sephardic and considered a sister, then perhaps we could have ancestresses that were indeed sisters. This is where the Bible comes in. There are several stories in the Bible of sisters, the daughters of Lot were just two and they seem to have remained in Canaan. But there were two other sisters that had a great impact on history, Leah and Rachel. Of course also their servant women Bilhah and Zilpha also made that contribution and it is that they are the mothers of the 12 tribes of Israel. While the Bible focuses on the fact that Jacob was their father, and more importance is placed on him, the mothers are presented as nothing more than just women along for the ride.

Rachel is somewhat still more honored today, we can't overlook Leah. They were from Aram, what we call Syria today. And here is the breakdown of their sons....

From Genesis 35
The sons of Leah; Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, Zebulun
The sons of Rachel; Joseph, and Benjamin
The sons of Bilhah, Rachel's handmaid; Dan, and Naphtali
And the sons of Zilpah, Leah's handmaid; Gad, and Asher: these are the sons of Jacob, which were born to him in Padanaram.

All of these men were born in Syria (Aram). But there is also one more person that is mentioned, the daughter of Jacob and Leah...Dina. While little is mentioned of her other than that she had been kidnapped and raped as a young girl by a young man from Shechem, it is one of the more tragic stories in the Bible. Her father did not wish to have trouble with the men in Shechem so he tried to make an appeasement, but his sons Levi and Simeon chose to go into the city and kill all the men after they had been circumcised. But to understand Levi and Simeon in their response, this was their full sister, the daughter of their mother. And it would be through Dina that all future women descendents would carry her mother's mtDNA.

We don't know what happened to Dina after that, but her brothers got her out of there, not wishing her to be forcefully married to the man who had kidnapped and raped her, and felt that to do this, it equated to making her into a harlot.

And this is where genetic memory comes in. When I read this in the Bible, the connection to Leah was very real to me and I think she really got a raw deal, she had been forced into tricking Jacob from her father, she was not loved like Rachel and never received any honor, even though she was the mother of one of the tribes that we know still exist, Levi, and that has been proven in the DNA. The Kohanim gene cannot be disputed, it is scientifically proven.

But what about women? They don't have the Y-DNA to prove their male ancestors. So they came from somewhere. And because T2b is from Syria, then perhaps my ancestresses were Dina and Leah. I am not saying that is absolute, because I have no proof of that, but then here is another part of the genetic memory...

Echoes from Ugarit, played by Malek Jandali. (The video does not seem to work on here)

When I first heard this as I was researching Canaanite religion, there was something in it that made a connection in me, as though my ancestress had heard this hymn. It is the Hymn to Nikkal. It was found in the Ugartic inscriptions and is the oldest musical notations in the world. We do know that Rachel and Leah had grown up surrounded by these gods and goddesses. Nikkal was the Canaanite goddess of fertility and Rachel stole the idols from her father's house.

But you have to really credit Malek Jandali for his interpretation and I am sure the original priests of Nikkal didn't use more than flutes and lyres. But still, the beauty is there. It kind of gives us a better idea of the civilization of Aram, that it was more than just pastoralist. While Jacob worked as a sheep rancher, he was also a sheep expert. But he worked for his father-in-law. We don't know if this was on the outskirts of a town or in the middle of nowhere.

We also know that Rebecca also came from Aram, that's why Eliezar went back to Aram to find a wife for Isaac, so Syria seems to have played a huge part in the genealogies in the Bible. Matrilineal lines for the Jews would then suggest a Syrian origin, and this is not concluding the origins of Y-DNA in the area. I can only focus now on my mtDNA, because that is what I know.

To be concluded.....

reply to post by WarminIndy


Genetic Memory

Jung asserted that genetic memory must be real and because it is real it must come from somewhere and that can only be through our DNA from our ancestors memories of events.

More About Genetic Memory

My DNA presents a challenge to interpeters, they don't know how to explain the last 500 years of the contributions to my DNA because my earliest known ancestress was in Colonial America. It's difficult to trace beyond her, which most people of Colonial American ancestry find. When women weren't recorded as being born, then you just simply don't know and it takes a lot of research to find her mother. But recently I did discover a possible name for her mother, so maybe I am on the right track with that.

So I asked myself why then would Middle Eastern show up in me if that DNA should be ancient, but the company I used can only suggest the past 500 years or to the seventh generation. I know the last seven generations my mother's mother's family. So it would suggest that an ancestress was from the Middle East in the last 500 years. While the Ashkenazi is there to a much smaller percentage (meaning that I have relatives that are considered Ashkenazi), I have quite a lot more who are considered Sephardi. And as yet, we are still waiting if T2e is going to be official for Sephardi. But also we have to consider Mizrahi Jews and I seem to be related to them as well.

Ashkenazis have informed me that I can't be Ashkenazi (which I never claimed to be) because I don't follow the religion or traditions or have an ancestress proven to be Ashkenazi. But I do have ancestry from Sephardi regions, but that would not tell me who my ancestress was.

The Middle East is present in my DNA, my mtDNA haplotype is from Syria, and to me I think Dina and Leah play an important part in that. Not saying they were, but let's not overlook them. All of Dina's daughters would have carried the mtDNA from Leah, as she did from her mother, and we don't know her mother's name.

But to give honor to Leah, the woman deserves credit as do Bilhah and Zilpah for giving birth to the 12 tribes of Israel. And as I said, the only daughter of Jacob and Leah didn't count to the writers of the genealogies in the Bible and that is tragic.

reply to post by WarminIndy


I contend that the only reason that you "relate" to biblical characters is because of your own familiarity to the stories and desire to be so related. There are literally billions of past individuals that shared your DNA, some of whose lives may have been intrinsically more important than others. But only your own religion's mythical mothers and sisters are pertinent to your selective genetic memory.

I'm afraid you've made two incorrect assumptions here, although I like the story you've written.

Firstly that Seven Daughters of Eve is factual, which it isn't – it's an analogy of the genealogical process. The second is that you've assumed the stories in the bible are factual, which they aren't – at best they are vaguely remembered stories handed down by word of mouth by several generations before being written down and are wide open to speculation.

windword
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

I contend that the only reason that you "relate" to biblical characters is because of your own familiarity to the stories and desire to be so related. There are literally billions of past individuals that shared your DNA, some of whose lives may have been intrinsically more important than others. But only your own religion's mythical mothers and sisters are pertinent to your selective genetic memory.

edit on 27-9-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)

I made the reference to Nikkal, which is not part of my religious upbringing. I did make reference to the Ugaritic texts, which is also not a part of my religious upbringing either. And actually, you do not share DNA with billions of past people, you only share DNA segments with a limited number of people. Just because we might all descend from billions of people, not all of them find their way into your DNA.

I am talking specifically about the DNA expressed in us, and mtDNA is passed directly from mother to daughter with very, very little variation. So in direct matrlinial lines, I descend directly from a woman from Syria. The same concept holds true for Y-DNA passed from father to son. As I am a woman, I have no Y-DNA line expressed in me so for me, it matters little in that regard.

reply to post by WarminIndy

But to give honor to Leah, the woman deserves credit as do Bilhah and Zilpah for giving birth to the 12 tribes of Israel. And as I said, the only daughter of Jacob and Leah didn't count to the writers of the genealogies in the Bible and that is tragic.

I'll rephrase.

In your empathy for the mythical biblical characters, that are intrinsic to the Jewish religion and their place in history, I believe that you desire to somewhat represent the forgotten women, left out of the story.

These people may or may not have existed, but surely, you are a descendant of a forgotten and nameless Syrian woman.

TerraLiga
I'm afraid you've made two incorrect assumptions here, although I like the story you've written.

Firstly that Seven Daughters of Eve is factual, which it isn't – it's an analogy of the genealogical process. The second is that you've assumed the stories in the bible are factual, which they aren't – at best they are vaguely remembered stories handed down by word of mouth by several generations before being written down and are wide open to speculation.

I had not said I regarded it as factual, but a lot of people do think Brian Sykes has made true statements. I simply said "as Brian Sykes asserts". I did say then that there is no evidence, other than mtDNA, that places my maternal ancestry in Syria. There is no way to track that line through Europe at what point, unless I have the paper trail to go on, and since the paper trail can only be considered as true as the people who reported the information, then it should be taken with a grain of salt as well.

Paper trails don't account for prostitution, adultery, rape, or illegitimate children from other relationships. So I can't place my most recent ancestress in Syria, but at some point in history an ancestress was there.

You are going to have to prove to me that everything was just word of mouth before being transmitted to writing. And as far as speculation goes, I can only speculate how my ancestresses moved from Syria and had daughters until it got to me.

But let me ask this, suppose Leah and Rachel did exist...then what? We do know Aram existed in ancient texts outside of the Bible. We can probably assume then that if it existed, then women were living there. And since I said that I have no proof or evidence, that does not dismiss my direct maternal line.

So what was going on in Aram when my ancestresses were there? The Ugaritic texts tell us. Would you have this same conflict with women who have Egyptian, Akkadian or Greek ancestry? Probably not.

But the moment I said something about the Bible, there was a disagreement. So it makes me wonder then why the Bible is singled out for this treatment.

Again, when dealing with the direct maternal line, my ancestresses were from Aram (Syria) and the Bible mentions that three of the women in its history were from Syria. Why would the writers of the Bible even mention this if it were trying to construct a solely Israeli/Judean ethnic group?

Did the Hittites exist? Yes. We also know the Hittites worshiped Tengri, their invisible sky god, and what is considered to be the oldest place of worship is at Gobekli Tepe. Migrations took Tengri even to Mongolia.

The Bible does not even remotely suggest that all Israelites came from Israel at the beginning and even historians such as Josephus place Abraham from near India, which I happen to think may have just been Harappa.

Did Artaxeres, Darius and Cyrus exist? Yes, they did. We know they did from even the Greeks. But then again, my ancestress was not from Persia or Harappa, and she was not Akkadian.

Even if you don't want to see that Leah, Rachel, Bilha, Zilpah or Dina were real, then that leaves us with this, the Bible is showing us the origins of what became the Jewish mothers in that time. I hope you see that I was not trying to imply that I am Jewish just because Leah is in the Bible, I am just saying that an ancestress of mine was from Aram. BTW, I am not Jewish.

windword
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

But to give honor to Leah, the woman deserves credit as do Bilhah and Zilpah for giving birth to the 12 tribes of Israel. And as I said, the only daughter of Jacob and Leah didn't count to the writers of the genealogies in the Bible and that is tragic.

I'll rephrase.

In your empathy for the mythical biblical characters, that are intrinsic to the Jewish religion and their place in history, I believe that you desire to somewhat represent the forgotten women, left out of the story.

These people may or may not have existed, but surely, you are a descendant of a forgotten and nameless Syrian woman.

edit on 27-9-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)

Yes, I am just trying to give those ancestresses a place of honor. And she is not forgotten, as my mtDNA has remembered her. I don't know her name, only where she was from.

reply to post by WarminIndy


I appreciate what you're saying but Genesis has largely been disproved as fact – or even close to fact. It was also written many hundreds of years after the supposed subject dates, so even the inaccuracies were amplified. There's a huge question of whether Abraham even existed at all.

Is it important for you to have biblical connections in some way?

I'm not trying to find fault with your questions, just your reasoning. Ultimately your question is very interesting and I'd like to see what you discover about your genetic lineage – and in a way I'd like to do the same – but I don't think you or I will find our ancient ancestors in the bible.

TerraLiga
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

I appreciate what you're saying but Genesis has largely been disproved as fact – or even close to fact. It was also written many hundreds of years after the supposed subject dates, so even the inaccuracies were amplified. There's a huge question of whether Abraham even existed at all.

Is it important for you to have biblical connections in some way?

I'm not trying to find fault with your questions, just your reasoning. Ultimately your question is very interesting and I'd like to see what you discover about your genetic lineage – and in a way I'd like to do the same – but I don't think you or I will find our ancient ancestors in the bible.

I just think that Leah has been forgotten as well as Dina. And it does give us a glimpse of what life was like for women in that time. Even until the early part of the 19th Century, women were not recorded as often as men were, and that's in the United States.

If we want to assume that the Bible is allegorical, then it is saying there were groups of women who lived in that time who were treated in this manner. It's as though the ancient world had not really considered women beyond just being married to some great, super-awesome dude that was the baby daddy.

But then you see these women of character that the Bible mentions their personalities. Rachel stole idols from her dad's house and when he went to search for them, she told him she could not rise up because she was on her period. The moral lesson in that.....she must have been a very funny person to pull that one.

We don't really know much about women in that time other than what the Bible has told us. But considering that they lived in a world of constant warfare and migration, we don't get much about how they thought about life. The Bible is definitely male-centric. I would agree to that.

But the Bible also mentions that Wisdom is a woman. She is a mother. So what happened to this woman they all knew at one time? I am not a feminist, as that word makes no sense to me anyway. No one goes around accusing men of being masculinists. Women think differently and it's a shame the female perspective was removed by the men who wrote the Bible. If women were regarded in any way, it's because they did something incredibly masculine.

Take Jael for instance, she nailed Sisera's head to the ground. But it never tells us how she came to that thought process and it doesn't tell us what she thought after it happened. We only know that he ran into her tent while her husband was away and he was hiding from the enemy. She gave him milk and waited for him to go to sleep. Then she nailed him.

The Bible gives us some clues to how the daughters of Lot thought they should get pregnant by him. They thought that all the men in the world were now dead without realizing it was just from their town. Even though some might say these stories are just pure allegory, it still provides us with the moral lessons to be learned through them.

Apparently these girls knew what sex was, but it does say they had been married to men who chose to stay in Sodom. But these girls had to get him drunk first. Which causes me to beg the question..did they take the wine with them from Sodom? And was Lot accustomed to drinking? It mentions their act with their mental thought process, but if it is an allegory, then what can be the moral lesson from that?

The story of Nikkal and Yarihk is that he wanted to marry her above all the wishes his father had for him to marry someone else and he paid for her. She was the goddess of the orchards and he was the god of the moon and every night he comes to visit her, he leaves the morning dew for her fruit trees. It is a beautiful story. The ancients did appreciate romantic love.

WarminIndy
Even until the early part of the 19th Century, women were not recorded as often as men were...

Surprisingly – or not – religion made this happen.

The value of your sex as fellow human beings was taken away 5000 years ago (the concept of Adam and Eve is Sumerian and was adopted by Judaism, Christianity and Islam) by men and their beliefs.

If I were a woman I would renounce God's religions based on this fact alone.

TerraLiga

WarminIndy
Even until the early part of the 19th Century, women were not recorded as often as men were...

Surprisingly – or not – religion made this happen.

The value of your sex as fellow human beings was taken away 5000 years ago (the concept of Adam and Eve is Sumerian and was adopted by Judaism, Christianity and Islam) by men and their beliefs.

If I were a woman I would renounce God's religions based on this fact alone.

My brother who is a Wiccan tells me all the time that when people tell him that Jesus did not care about women and that He lived in a religion that denied women any rights, he tells them that he doesn't see that because Jesus was very caring about women.

Sure, He did call one woman a dog, but He also called Peter the Devil. We do it today, we call certain men snakes, some women are cougars, some are foxes, and some are just plain......well you know.

What I do admire about Jewish marriages is that in their kettubah (marriage contract) the man agrees to completely satisfy her in all her needs. If he fails because he doesn't even try, then she has the right of divorce. Can you imagine if Christians had that?

Jewish women did have rights, but we can't see that because some Christian men have read one verse in the Bible and took it out of context. That is not God's fault, that is man's fault.

While I had said the Bible is male-centric, it does not mean that it is necessarily a bad thing, after all, we have television channels made for men and some made for women. I don't watch Spike TV, but some women do. And I don't expect men to watch Lifetime.

If you can overlook the male-centric nature of interpretation of the Bible, then we can see that women did have a voice. Look at Deborah in the Book of Judges, she was called on to lead the army. But in those days, primarily men were literate.

What do you think about Superman, Spiderman, Batman and so forth? Those are male-centric also. There are fewer female superheroes.

So why should I reject the Bible for what a few men said? Wouldn't that kind of like be giving in to the ultimate plan by men?

reply to post by WarminIndy


And what we forget is that the Bible is not only the story of God, but of humanity. It speaks to every facet of human endeavor.

The Bible also asks the same questions of all philosophers...What is man? What is man's purpose? What is the origin of man? These are what the Greeks asked.

What is humanity? What is humanity's responsibility toward each other? How can I find my place in this world?

These questions have answers in the Bible.

Psalm 8:4 What is man that thou considerist him?

Think about the philosophy in that question. And then you have to realize that the Psalmist is asking the ultimate question...what am I?

reply to post by WarminIndy

Dear WarminIndy,

It may be that my mind is slowing down (I see that as a possibility), but this thread as a whole strikes me as being very strange. I have nothing constructive to add, all my genes are in my closet. (See what I know?) I know, roughly, where my ancestors come from, but it's not very interesting to me. So, you see, I'm a real outsider to this discussion.

What strikes me here, is that it doesn't seem as though the posters understand what you are trying to do. I'm pretty sure you're not trying to do an ancestry.com search back 5,000 years. My guess, and that's all it is, is that you are saying you have a strong genetic connection to Syria, and that connection helps emphasize to you the stories of Syrian women as recorded in the Bible.

At some deep level, you see them as family. You remember the experiences they had, the feelings, the atmosphere, of that time and place.

I'm going to stop there, because I may be the one that's truly misinterpreting you, I don't know. but as a friend, I wanted to stop by.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952


charles1952

Thank you for stopping by. Maybe I am trying to bridge that gap between the ancient to now. As I believe Leah, Rachel and Dina were real women, then their descendents went everywhere. I hope they understand that in my attempts to say male-centric, it was not intended to be a bad thing, only that it seemed to be mostly from the perspective of men.

In the case of genetic memory that now scientists are starting to examine, they have discovered that at the cellular level, memory is stored there. There is nothing to say that it is necessarily ethnic memory, as ethnically I am not Middle-Eastern, I am definitely European in that regard. But the memory seems to indicate experiences from ancestors.

What I feel is something prior to the organization of Judaism. I am not going to say Jewish rabbis were responsible for removing the voice of women from the Bible, and I see no suppression in it, only that because men were primarily literate then, it places more emphasis on the male centered view.

Men and women have different thought processes and will view God differently to some degree. While men are more geared toward the ubermensch, women are more geared toward nurturing. That certainly would not make the view of the Bible wrong, only that God was wise enough to consider women in it.

The reason for the mention of Nikkal was that worship of her was what my Syrian ancestresses would have known. I don't think that I implied Nikkal was real, only that people at one time worshiped her. That's why I said it was a beautiful story, because I am a writer and a film reviewer, so understanding narrative in a story is what I do.

At the same time, I am a realist and know that we all come from somewhere. You know, God said to Cain, "your brother's blood cries to me from the ground". Then God set a mark on Cain. We don't know what this mark was or is even now. Perhaps her memories are in my blood and God has allowed me to hear her?

I do take a literal view of the Bible, so that's why it is so easy to reconcile faith with science, because the Bible contains the ultimate answer to life itself. I would love to be descended from Dina and Leah, because to me, they should be remembered and honored for contributing to history.

But I have no proof or evidence, as I said, but some woman in Syria might have desired to know the real God, but circumstances prevented it in her day, but as her descendent, I can know the truth. And perhaps God has allowed me to hear her memory of her life. Knowing my DNA has not changed what I know about God, it has strengthened my faith more.

I didn't want people to think I believe in or worship Nikkal, but truth has been given to the daughter of a woman who did.

Hi, I am passionate about genealogy, ancient history, and DNA testing. I've had 6 family members partake in Y-DNA, mtDNA, and autosomal testing - it's pretty amazing stuff! Love that you're into it. I was wondering how familiar you are with haplogroups? There are 4 mtDNA haplogroups found exclusively in Jewish populations and who are referred to as the "four founding mothers." Three of those mtDNA haplogroups are K1a1b1a, K2a2, and K1a9. Instead of re-inventing the wheel I will paste what 23andme says about these haplos:

"K in the Ashkenazi
A few branches of haplogroup K, such as K1a9, K2a2a, and K1a1b1a, are specific to Jewish populations and especially to Ashkenazi Jews, whose roots lie in central and eastern Europe. These branches of haplogroup K are found at levels of 30% among Ashkenazi. But they are also found at lower levels in Jewish populations from the Near East and Africa, and among Sephardic Jews who trace their roots to medieval Spain. That indicates an origin of those K haplogroup branches in the Near East before 70 AD, when the Roman destruction of Jerusalem scattered the Jewish people around the Mediterranean and beyond.

About 1.7 million Ashkenazi living today – about 20% of the population – share a single branch of the K haplogroup, K1a1b1a. The diversity of that haplogroup among Ashkenazi suggests that it arose in the Near East between 2,000 and 3,000 years ago, and that everyone who shares it today could have shared a common ancestor as recently as 700 years ago. A similar pattern in two other K branches that are common among the Ashkenazi, K1a9 and K2a2, as well as the N1b branch of haplogroup N, has led researchers to conclude that 40% of the Ashkenazi living today – about 3.4 million people – could descend from as few as four women who lived within the last 2,000 years.

Historical information supports that conclusion. The Ashkenazi tradition traces back to a small number of people who migrated from northern Italy to the Rhine Valley of Germany around 700 AD, then grew over the next 1,300 years to a population of more than 5 million."

N1b2 is also considered a founding mother, 23andme says about her:

"Haplogroup N1b2
Jewish populations dispersed from the Near East about 2,000 years ago, after the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Second Temple by the Romans. Some of them ended up in Rome, and a few of their descendants eventually made their way northward to settle in the Rhine Valley around 800 AD. Over the next millennium that small group of founders, known as the Ashkenazi, grew to a population of 6 million.

Research has shown that Ashkenazi living today trace back to just a handful of mitochondrial DNA lines. Their mitochondrial genetics is so restricted, in fact, that 40% of the Ashkenazi living today can be traced back to as few as four individual women.

One of those women belonged to the N1b2 haplogroup, which is found today in the mitochondrial DNA of about 10% of Ashkenazi. Though it is also found in other Jewish groups, the vast majority of the people who carry it today trace their lineage back to one, or at most a few, women who lived between 500 and 2,500 years ago, and most likely during the first millennium AD."



I also want to mention that there are clusters of various other mitochondrial haplogroups found in Jewish communities all over the world from later converts. There is a great mtDNA haplogroup T project on Family Tree DNA and Facebook if you're looking for more info.

Just now reading this and I am so excited. I am a T2b and before I had my DNA test I felt like I just knew all this stuff by instinct or genetic memory. Mostly I'm trying to figure out about some things my Mother told me, mostly that I am a decedent of Jesus (she died before The Davinci Code came out but might have read Holy Blood Holy Grail). She never told me if it was from her side or my Father's side, having done some research I think it might be both. I know that means there are a lot of us, but maybe the dreams and visions and feelings of ancestral memory and some more sort of supernatural spiritual things are normally dormant in the DNA, sort of like how I could have red hair children even though I don't have read hair, and whatever it is is active in me. Anyway, we should connect. This is me if You are curious *ignore the URL, it was kind of a joke and now FB won't let me change it* www.facebook.com...

a reply to: TerraLiga

Wow you guys are doin some trollin!! Well, even if the Bible is a total hoax, she and I can definitely relate to this... "The last Russian Tsar, Nicholas II, has been shown to be of Haplogroup T, specifically subclade T2 (Ivanov 1996). Assuming all relevant pedigrees are correct, this includes all female-line descendants of his female line ancestor Barbara of Celje (1390-1451), wife of Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor. This includes a great number of European nobles, including George I of Great Britain and Frederick William I of Prussia (through the Electress Sophia of Hanover), Charles I of England, George III of the United Kingdom, George V of the United Kingdom, Charles X Gustav of Sweden, Gustavus Adolphus of Sweden, Maurice of Nassau, Prince of Orange, Olav V of Norway, and George I of Greece. Many European royals have been found to be of this mtDNA Haplogroup, in addition to Haplogroup H (mtDNA)" Not sure who Warminlndy is yet, but like me she might find a lot of paintings of Royalty all over Europe who look just like her because they are ancestors. Her and I are both on the same quest. I love that I found this.

My Haplo is y- gft189276 ; mt- t2b.

My question is this : Since my mum carries no " y" code does that mean I can NEVER learn information about her father's side ?? 🤔😟🌎