Viktor Grebennikov and his beetle wing powered levitating platform.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

Yes, beetle wings make magic anti-gravity orbs. How could I have been so naive.

Your ego-based arrogance makes you very naive by blinding you into thinking that you know everything, that science knows everything, that everything that there is to know has already been figured out. 100 years from know, scientists will look at our knowledge base of today and say we were very early in knowing what really is going on. Not only that, one discovery can upend all the rules of science(like for example finding out that the rules of existence that apply to this universe or dimension, do not apply to another universe or dimension). Your an idiot who thinks he knows!!!!

You convinced me. Someone tell DARPA, we don't need any more research, we have magic beetle wings.

Daft sarcasm is pointless. Get some wings and do your own tests. Other than that, you are a moron who is already assuming.

A scientist is supposed to with hold all assumption, doubt, skepticism until and independent experiment can verify if this so or not.

Seriously, you lack any and all knowledge of science (or logic). Go enjoy.

Actually, I study quantum physics and science as a weekend hobby and have a few friends who are actual physicists with whom I discuss various things. They all acknowledge that we are babies when it comes to knowing it all and how it all works.

I've actually brought these wings up to them and sourcing such items isn't easy, however the have been open to experimenting with this. Unlike yourself, who is not an accredited Physicist, whom automatically reverts to childish games instead of examining possibility.

You're intellect might be well established, but your psychology is very childish and your ego is arrogant. Good luck with that by the way. Its a plague to humanity and keeps people from working together. I have some very good books on psychological maturity, if you like, I can give you at least a dozen that can help with you transform your vices into virtues. Just send a u2u if you like, that way I don't have to call you out on ATS anymore.

reply to post by Dominicus


If any of your friends think a bundle of beetle wings creates a magical anti-gravity ball and allows people to zoom around at 1,000mph without breaking the sound barrier they should quit their day jobs.

The rest of your argument is a logical fallacy. I do not need to know everything there is to know about math to know that 2+2=4. I don't need to know everything about the universe to know this is a hoax.

OccamsRazor04
reply to post by Dominicus

 

If any of your friends think a bundle of beetle wings creates a magical anti-gravity ball and allows people to zoom around at 1,000mph without breaking the sound barrier they should quit their day jobs.

The rest of your argument is a logical fallacy. I do not need to know everything there is to know about math to know that 2+2=4. I don't need to know everything about the universe to know this is a hoax.

There is an obvious phenomenon going on in the videos that merits further investigation. Unless I do my own own experiments, or someone on ATS does, or my physicist friends do an experiments, unless these expirements are done and shown whether or not there is something to this, well then the verdict is out on this one.

We just don't know. If I say there is and you say there isn't anything to it, well we both don't know because we haven't done our own experiments.

I agree that it sounds outrageous that you can build a contraption from this and travel 1000 mph. However, the video's showing split second ant-grav effects when these wings are manipulated in certain ways. So really, who knows.

It definitely merits further investigation.

To say it doesn't, means you are completely against science and the scientific method by having already made up your mind, when in fact, all judgment should be with held until a proper experiment is done.

So now, lets get to down to business. Who here thinks they can source water beetles?

reply to post by Dominicus


I just watched X-men. There is an obvious phenomena going on. We need to study mutants further.

Videos are hoaxed all the time. There is no obvious phenomena.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


Just stop.
The obvious phenomenon in this thread is the sheer ignorance coming from your contributions.

OmegaSynthesis
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

Just stop.
The obvious phenomenon in this thread is the sheer ignorance coming from your contributions.

Thanks Omega,
My sentiments exactly!!!!! He's bringing up x-men fiction movies as an excuse not to experiment.

Maybe hes one of those Gov-paid shills who derail topics. Anyway, now that this troll is out of the way, what say you about finding a source for these wings???

OccamsRazor04
reply to post by geo1066

 

The reason it can not be static electricity is due to the outrageous claims made. Could it be possible the simple small experiments showing the beetle wings pushing each other was caused by static electricity? Sure. I'll bite on that. I find it very unlikely, but possible as a wing weighs probably .05 grams. Once you talk about lifting a person, on a heavy platform, you are talking hundreds of pounds, that would require 500,000 or more beetle wings. Did he go kill 500,000 beetles? The very idea is preposterous.

Now let's add in the kicker.

The effect only works because you have one wing on the bottom, pushing up the other wing.

If you put one magnet on the ground, and then place another magnet on top it's certainly possible to levitate the top magnet, but if you duct tape them together they will never BOTH levitate simply because you attached them together.


f you lIook all the beetle wings are attached to the platform (out of view of course). The only way the effect could be caused by static electricity would be by having one set of wings on the ground, and another set on the bottom of the platform being lifted by the bottom set. That clearly is not the case as is proven by the image of him levitating.

Now let's look at height. When the beetle wings are interacting in the video, the wing is only lifted a few centimeters. Adding more weight (him and the platform) would cause that distance to lessen, not increase. So if the beetles can only lift a light wing a few centimeters, how is it lifting him several feet?

Everything about this is illogical and screams hoax. If you have any more questions just ask.

Thank you 'OccultRazor'. I do have some more questions.

If we take away all of the 'he says, she says' and set the details aside, we find that the question at hand is - How do they actually achieve being able to suspend themselves against the effects of gravity?

As you stated

The effect only works because you have one wing on the bottom, pushing up the other wing.

Doesn't work. This would be the same as placing a fan on a sailboat to gain forward momentum.
Besides I think you'd agree that to start with, the ratio of weight to the area of surface needed to creat lift force isn't there.

The reason it can not be static electricity is due to the outrageous claims made. Could it be possible the simple small experiments showing the beetle wings pushing each other was caused by static electricity? Sure. I'll bite on that.

I'm confused. Are you in or out? ( the box I mean.)

f you lIook all the beetle wings are attached to the platform (out of view of course). The only way the effect could be caused by static electricity would be by having one set of wings on the ground, and another set on the bottom of the platform being lifted by the bottom set. That clearly is not the case as is proven by the image of him levitating.

Law of nature is to be harmonized or keep a balance of +'s and -'s. I think we can agree on that. Why would you have to have a set? The aether would be a source that could be used. The physical structure of the wings could possibly cause the imbalance of electrons in it's surroundings and use this against the law of nature. Another thought on why I sway towards some form of electricity/magnetism is just the observance of a beetle's landing.
Have you ever seen a graceful flying beetle? let alone a beetle make a perfect landing. With life in a constant motion of trying to equalize itself, the collecting and release of any electrons would be a very powerful and irradic event. (push pull, push pull, push pull,etc)

One last question -

To keep an open mind, What would you take a guess at what is the box on the handle's vertical support with the insulator looking protrudes on either side be? Definitly contact switches on the handle bar, not mechanical. Could there be a purpose for those?
Or-
If all of this is a hoax, are they there just to add some 'bling' to the drawing?


- I am nor a leader or a follower-

I will not lead for I have no path
I will not follow for what may be the blind

reply to post by Dominicus


It isn't about finding a source for the wings at all! It's about trying to replicate the phenomenon we see in nature and trying to preserve these small secret from those that would do the easy thing and kill them for the answers.
We know that the microscopic walls of the shells are geometric and mirror small vortexes, whirlpools of energy.
Think magnetism, electrostatic energy; reverse gravity potential in my eyes.

OmegaSynthesis
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

Just stop.
The obvious phenomenon in this thread is the sheer ignorance coming from your contributions.

Your right, how could I deny magical anti gravity causing beetle-bits. I guess the magic has died since no one can replicate it.

Dominicus

OmegaSynthesis
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

Just stop.
The obvious phenomenon in this thread is the sheer ignorance coming from your contributions.

Thanks Omega,
My sentiments exactly!!!!! He's bringing up x-men fiction movies as an excuse not to experiment.

Maybe hes one of those Gov-paid shills who derail topics. Anyway, now that this troll is out of the way, what say you about finding a source for these wings???

Why would I kill beetles for this? You yourself have already tried it and failed. The stupidity in this topic is becoming palpable.

geo1066
Thank you 'OccultRazor'. I do have some more questions.

If we take away all of the 'he says, she says' and set the details aside, we find that the question at hand is - How do they actually achieve being able to suspend themselves against the effects of gravity?

It's a youtube video. There are a million ways to create a hoax.

The effect only works because you have one wing on the bottom, pushing up the other wing.

Doesn't work. This would be the same as placing a fan on a sailboat to gain forward momentum.
Besides I think you'd agree that to start with, the ratio of weight to the area of surface needed to creat lift force isn't there.

Exactly. Putting a fan on a sailboat would not cause forward momentum if they were attached to each other. If you had a fan somehow suspended in front of the boat and not attached it would work. That is why having all the wings attached to the platform could never work, you would need the two to be separated. So in the video to "prove" the original person correct, their demonstration actually proves the original idea to be 100% a hoax.

The reason it can not be static electricity is due to the outrageous claims made. Could it be possible the simple small experiments showing the beetle wings pushing each other was caused by static electricity? Sure. I'll bite on that.

I'm confused. Are you in or out? ( the box I mean.)

Do I believe there is any actual phenomena occuring using special beetle wings? No. For the sake of argument was I willing to concede there was? Yes. Because the videos actually prove the original idea false. So conceding the point doesn't matter, the videos are evidence the whole idea is a hoax.

if you Iook all the beetle wings are attached to the platform (out of view of course). The only way the effect could be caused by static electricity would be by having one set of wings on the ground, and another set on the bottom of the platform being lifted by the bottom set. That clearly is not the case as is proven by the image of him levitating.

Law of nature is to be harmonized or keep a balance of +'s and -'s. I think we can agree on that. Why would you have to have a set? The aether would be a source that could be used. The physical structure of the wings could possibly cause the imbalance of electrons in it's surroundings and use this against the law of nature. Another thought on why I sway towards some form of electricity/magnetism is just the observance of a beetle's landing.
Have you ever seen a graceful flying beetle? let alone a beetle make a perfect landing. With life in a constant motion of trying to equalize itself, the collecting and release of any electrons would be a very powerful and irradic event. (push pull, push pull, push pull,etc)

This is why you need a set. If you have one magnet alone does it "work"? No. You need a set. A Balloon with static electricty sitting in the open air will do nothing. It's not until it has a "set" (another object) that the static electricty causes the balloon to cling. Now besides that, looking at the videos posted one wing by itself does nothing. The interaction only occurs when the set are used together. So the video itself proves you need a set. as to the "aether", that's not science, and is in no way supported by the videos. The videos prove there is no aether interaction.

One last question -

To keep an open mind, What would you take a guess at what is the box on the handle's vertical support with the insulator looking protrudes on either side be? Definitly contact switches on the handle bar, not mechanical. Could there be a purpose for those?
Or-
If all of this is a hoax, are they there just to add some 'bling' to the drawing?


- I am nor a leader or a follower-

I will not lead for I have no path
I will not follow for what may be the blind

Can you show me which picture you mean? Since this is a hoax, my guess will be it's there for looks.

The videos prove the original idea a hoax. As you said, a fan can move a sailboat. To suggest otherwise is to deny proven science.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

Your right, how could I deny magical anti gravity causing beetle-bits. I guess the magic has died since no one can replicate it.

Magic because you cannot fathom another reality? A reality where 99% of the universe is invisible?
Just because the technology has been lost to history, who are you to say it is dead? The greatest civilizations knew things we don't, they may be gone but their ideas and level of sophistication continue into this time only to prove to the ignorant masses today, that we are babies with colossal egos.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

antoinemarionette
The fact remains that the Ancient Egyptians (and others) had technologies that we don't have and which have not yet been fully explained or reproduced by anyone. That is undeniable.

OccamsRazor
No they did not, that is undeniable.

There is a massive pyramid in Egypt used for purposes alien to us. Built by methods we don't know,
for a civilization that came out of nowhere that bestowed within and without it's structure, perfect math, geometry, art, culture and beliefs. Ever seen it? There's more than one, and not just in Egypt. Maybe they just drew a beetle with wings on it for fun and not to preserve esoteric knowledge, how cute.

Dominicus
Maybe hes one of those Gov-paid shills who derail topics.

This.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


Thank you OccultRazor !

I do believe our conversation has reach a conclusion. You stated -

The interaction only occurs when the set are used together. So the video itself proves you need a set. as to the "aether", that's not science,

This is where we both hit the roadblock.

In your defence, we have -

www.britannica.com...[/url]

ether, also spelled aether, also called luminiferous ether, in physics, a theoretical, universal substance believed during the 19th century to act as the medium for transmission of electromagnetic waves (e.g., light and X rays) much as sound waves are transmitted by elastic media such as air. The ether was assumed to be weightless, transparent, frictionless, undetectable chemically or physically, and literally permeating all matter and space. The theory met with increasing difficulties as the nature of light and the structure of matter became better understood; it was seriously weakened (1881) by the Michelson-Morley experiment, which was designed specifically to detect the motion of the Earth through the ether and which showed that there was no such effect.

And in mine we have -

www.mountainman.com.au...

The consequences of these two interpretations of space give rise to two camps of physics: In the aether - no camp we have the combined theories of relativity and quantum mechanics. In the aether - yes camp we have Model Mechanics. Obviously, only one of these camp has a chance to be right (either there is aether or no aether) and the problem is to determine which camp is right. The purpose of this posting is to lay out the current state of the art and the experimental facts of both camps and let the readers decide. - Ken Seto, Physicist.

I believe that there is always something in nothing and an example of why I'm for this theory of the aether is - It's the closest explanation for the way gravity and magnetism work. Otherwise, without it, we still don't have any idea the mechanics of these forces.

Till next time OccultRazor04-

I don't really have any opinion on this phenomenon, but I thought perhaps these might add some insight to the debate:

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
video.mit.edu...

Perhaps the static charge these wingcovers develop helps to stabilize the wings, or affect the air the wings are pushing...or something. I am very far on the scientific scale from an entymologist.

reply to post by geo1066


Well unlike some others here I have found you most reasonable and happily agree to disagree. It would require some mysterious unknown "aether" for the original platform to float.

I still maintain that either the original experiment OR the Youtube video is a hoax. In the original experiment the wings were stuck together and caused an antigravity effect. In the youtube video we have some sort of magnetism effect happening where the wings push against each other. If one is real, the other necessarily must be fake.

Bear with me here. I know it's John Hutchison, but the scientist interviewing him is no slouch. He mentions, a couple of minutes in, that some theory predicts anti-gravity waves when static electricity is thrown in with other forms of EM. It's that theory that caught my attention and made me think of this thread.

This was shared in a totally different context on another thread, but I thought the effect Stephenson was talking about in the vid might be germane here.

Very interesting topic, good discussion. I am with Project Horme doing AG research, and are continuing Grebennikov's work. There are a number of things I want to clear up. We are one of the few projects that are deep into the experiments.

1) The platform was real
2) There is an updated Russian platform, his was dismantled by the government, the newer one is more sophisticated but works a bit differently.
3) The AG was not caused by wing covers moving others up. The wing covers are only one part of the equation.
4) The reported speeds are correct, because the bubble around the craft and operator exist, which means there is no resistance.
5) There was a change in space time.
6) The wing covers are not the deciding factor, CSE is.
7) The energy source required is not huge.
8) Grebennikov's findings on wing cover movement, combined with CSE, and wave timing are important.
9) The waves involved are disputed by mainstream science, but some of them know the real story but can't come out with the info because they will be discredited. It is tied with Dark Energy.
10) The late scientist made the mistake of telling the Russian government about his research, they did not want people to know about it because the country is reliant on commercial oil production and gathering and selling of rich natural resources.

Hope this clears some things up, there is some correct info out there but you have to dig for it.

reply to post by horme


first...wow.


Second...can you back up any of this...somehow.

Thanks.


edit:

I am unable to find any google reference to this project you mention. But, if it is doing AG research...that wouldn't be too odd.

reply to post by horme


But let's play for a while....


I kinda got the hunch we were dealing with insufficient info on the whole thing. The entire process was crudely explained and caused our resident debunkers to yell HOAX.

Makes sense for the wings to be only a part of this..."device".

Number 10 also makes sense.

7) The energy source required is not huge.

Care to give some more info on the energy required and in what form is it supplied?