Money an Obsolete Technology???

Money is a strange technology

We humans probably invented it to make barter simpler...
But somehow there is this drawback
I cant put it in words so great; but i think everyone knows what im trying to say.

Money causes Greed to be much easier to fufill than thru barter.
Convertable currency seems almost better than the products it can aquire because it can aquire any of them.
But in a strange paradoxical reality; money is actually worth almost nothing. Money is only paper and ink; rare paper and ink but still...its ACTUALLY worth less than any of the products it can aquire.

Think of it like this...
Your on a desert island stuck alone
and there is only Sand, and Saltwater.
(there is 100% no chance for rescue)

Would you rather have a pile of gold/50million $
or Food/Fresh Water
????

Exactly.


I propose we eliminate Money.
This will be the First step
to solving Humanitys majority of problems.

Think about it awhile....we can eliminate a large portion of Mental Problems by simply Eliminating Money.

Ask yourself "what is most of our human problems center around?"

I know.
Eliminating Money cannot be achived successfully in one nation alone
we have to do it WorldWide

How will we achieve this step forward into becoming worldwide civilization?
Im not quite sure. This type of thing requires rare human emotions.

Like, for starters. America, Japan Brit France Germany China.... all us rich nations gotta share the resources fairly with everyone else. Including our OWN populations!

I know what your saying.
Its not fair to be fair is it?
Now Now We're being silly.

Being Fair Is Fair.
I have a dictionary. I looked it up.

And instead of bleeding our economys on warfare
now since we can unite under this common cause

We can focus our economys on
Science/Technology
Education
Healthcare and new Medicine
Communications Tech
Robot Tech
Space Travel /Colonizaton

Since this requires a Global Leap
We will become a Global Entity
One Flag; All Mankind

I believe in Democracy
I think Democracy could work
I have no doubt in my mind; we would be successful
We are humans we can accomplish anything.

Money an Obsolete Technology???
Yes
But this is bad news for Mr Big Corporation and his law firm.


I really want this to happen so i can see all those rich people cry.
LOL
Im just like them and i dont cry because i live on a modest income/lifestyle.

They are just spoiled. A little dicipline could wipe that right off their faces.
A Lesson in fairness would teach em

If everything is free; but rationed
hell it would work
lol

Theres plenty of food for everyone to pick their favorites.
Theres plenty of materials to go around.

Rare commoditys should be devoted to Science and other "public works" type projects.
Infrastructure and such.

We should use our limited resources like any alien species would. If they exist *they probably do*
How would "intelligent" aliens do it? you may ask...
i would wager they do it Fairly.

Instead of thinking Individually *with money
They would think more Species-oriented *with fairness

Communism? Democracy? Sharing? Fairness?
whatever you call it
Thats what the next big social step is.

There is alternate paths.
Such as Corporations Ruling the world with $$$
People allowing their greed to destroy another peoples way of life.
Saddness for the Poor, Happiness for the Rich

Why cant everyone have a taste?

Instead of wasting precious resources by allowing a few people to overindulge themselves
We can make it fair..

I see a weak economy today.
With this hinderance of Money.
Rationing Resources fairly does NOT MEAN
"Everyone will have the same ANYTHING"

There is alot of different stuff out there.
its Virtually impossible for everyone to have the same stuff.

some people may feel a big tv/computer screen fits their taste more than others.
i personally dont even want a tv.
i just like my computer fine enough.

Fair People want only what they USE.
Its funny.

A world without money is a world without Brand Name Items.
Its a world where you go for Taste/Flavor/Style
as 100% of your resource collection strategy

But this greed inside me says "i still want to drive a ferrari or lamborgini"
well....
those will be reduced to history distplays
because Gasoline is almost Gone.
so i will be happy with whatever futuristic non-fossil fuel vehicle they present me with.

What problems will we have to Solve in order to have a working economy without Money?
What types of Problems do you people think would arise?
Id love to hear any you can think of.

Let us discover solutions to these problems.
So that a world without Money.
Is the World of Tomorrow.

Cooperation is the way it seems.
"Civilized" "Advanced" "Enlightened"
Cooperation is the key to this door i believe.

Let us unlock the true power of mankind
Mankind
The Earth Flag is strongest of them All.

Hell we wont even have to waste resources on making Flags anymore since we all know we will share the same one anyway.
See how saving some paper by getting rid of money is already saving us fabrics .....
Waste seems to be one of the first problems to be alieviated by eliminating Money

What do YOU Think?
Your Ideas are Nessasary
Without your opinion and calculations
Mankind grows weaker
So let us flex our Democracy

How can we do this? *There is a way Definatly 100% lets find it!
and lets figure out what types of NEW problems will arise; and how to solve Those too!

Man can walk on the Moon.
Man can Surely Eliminate Money with EASE

this Should be a cakewalk compared to interstellar space travel.
lets find out

whats up ATS ?

keep in mind by being 'fair' and sharing thru the elimination of $$$

would not stop diversity of products and product distrubution
we should all have neat stuff
and i want something you dont and
you want something i dont

so lets make sure to keep our ideas focused on keeping
the great things capitalism gives us *diversity of product distribution* and *diversity of products*

while we can also gain the good aspects of democracy and freedom and equality

your smart people im sure you can figure out great ideas about this
and togeather we could make it possible

I think thats the plan!!!!1

Well, first of all, do you still remember history lessons from the school? Yes, it was so long ago, that even I don�t remember perfectly, but there was something like this. In the ancient Greece there was a region called Laconia, the capital was Sparta. When a warrior gone to a war, his mother told him:� With it or on it�. It means come back victorious or dead you will be carried back by your comrades on your shield. This is how I would like you to express your ideas in the further posts. Alright?

Now about your posts.

What you ignore is that the people are greedy by their nature. It is not enough that you and I, and a passer-by will agree not to use the money, majority will never give up it, because it itself gives the feeling of power.

Also, how will we trade then? Let�s suppose I want to buy a scarf. I will go to a tailor and offer my newest computer software. Very likely that he will throw me out and urge to come back only when I�ll have, let�s say, milk. Now have to go to a farmer and offer the same software. He will demand something else. Finally, after a month long efforts I will get my scarf.

[edit on 14-11-2004 by Agnis]

you wouldnt have the 'barter problem'
because as i said
we would ration out materials accordingly
that means they would be pooled ' together by government and
then rationed out

how to beat greeed? dont know yet lol
Seeking Non violent way

plus i dont know what you mean about
"Come home w/this shield or upon it"
ive heard the saying before but i have no clue as to what your implying with it?

quote "It means come back victorious or dead you will be carried back by your comrades on your shield. This is how I would like you to express your ideas in the further posts. Alright?"

i am not understanding what you mean
but i believe ill express my ideas any way i want because well
its my Right lol

you express yours the way you want
ill express mine the way i want
thats the idea of freedom u know

if you Really wanna control me that bad tho
we can look into that
but i request 5.75$ an hour payment for my being 'Controlled' by you
lol
since we still use $ i got some bills to pay and well; u know

Yeah, that works, just ask the Soviet Union. Oh, wait..

government rationing???!!!! well theres your policestate..

There will always be some type of money. All money is, is an easy way to trade. Money=Trade

He's against trade though.

Without trade no one has any incentive to do anything, so you have to do something about the people who refuse to work. What are you going to do, kill them? Great idea.

It is especially a problem that these "rich bastards" you so despise won't do everything for society that keeps it afloat. They didn't get rich sitting on their asses, they make the world work. You hate factories? Try imagining what you'd do without.

Read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, and if you can still think you have any logical reason for this to be a part of real life I'd like to hear it.

Trade should be done in the currency of time alone. The reason the rich get richer is a little thing called profit. Your $30 sweater is actually worth $5.99 and the rest goes into people's pockets who couldn't knit a doily, much less a sweater.

Of course, if you can convince the owners of all the wealth and capital that they should give it up so things would be more fair - short of a bloody revolution - then I would love to hear it.

Originally posted by ben91069
Trade should be done in the currency of time alone. The reason the rich get richer is a little thing called profit. Your $30 sweater is actually worth $5.99 and the rest goes into people's pockets who couldn't knit a doily, much less a sweater.

BS, there's transportation, storage, and the pay of the people who do that and sell it to you to think of, it's not all pure profit. Beside that, the people who get that sweater to you deserve that money. If you want to travel to the factory yourself you're free to do so, but tickets to Taiwan are rather expensive.

If you trade my time as currency then my time had better get me a hell of a lot more than the guy who empties the trash. Why? Because some things can only be done by certain people, and those things are more valuable than the things that can be done by anyone. That's why we have money, you get paid money by a function of time, right? What's the problem with money? That you don't have enough? Then do something more important. If you don't like that other people have more, then do whatever it is they do better and distribute that among people you think "deserve" it, but I doubt you'll be doing that, because it's HARD right, and even though the rich people work HARD to get their money, you deserve it more without working as hard. Great philosophy.

rich people do NOT work hard for their money

sitting back and doing NOTHING is the easiest job on earth

rich people only worked Hard when they were POOR
and the minute they begin to have "real" money flow in was the minute they STOPPED working and tricked everyone else to work for them

Rich people do no "Deserve" all that $$$ either

if they "Do Deserve It"
than they also deserve a life-long prison sentance w/bubba and the gang

because they are criminals

why does bill gates deserve 50 to 100 billion dollars?

WHY?

give me one "Good Reason" why he deserves that Much

wouldnt 20million $ be enough?
why is billions and billions not enough?
instead you think he "deserves" tens upon tens of billions of $?

why would you take up for someone who USES you for their own Profit?
you are a slave like anyone else is
why are you protecting your "Masters?"

shbaz says:
BS, there's transportation, storage, and the pay of the people who
do that and sell it to you to think of, it's not all pure profit.
Beside that, the people who get that sweater to you deserve that
money. If you want to travel to the factory yourself you're free to
do so, but tickets to Taiwan are rather expensive.

If a sweater takes .3 hours to make and adding the time costs of everything
else then everyone gets paid their time. I can't get into every
single factor here, but if a truck moves 10,000 of these and it takes
10 hours to do so, then the truck drivers time is added to the production
costs as 10hrs/10000 = .001 hours per sweater. The driver still gets
paid his 10 hours of work. This can be applied just like money to
anything.

shbaz says:
If you trade my time as currency then my time had better get me a
hell of a lot more than the guy who empties the trash. Why? Because
some things can only be done by certain people, and those things are
more valuable than the things that can be done by anyone. That's why
we have money, you get paid money by a function of time, right?

I guess that is your problem and the problem muzzleflash points out
quite clearly. You think of yourself higher than others and are greedy.
The reason you don't wanna empty the trash for a living is because you
are basically proud. Believe me taking out trash for a living is
harder work than something like making out productivity reports behind
a computer.

shbaz says:
What's
the problem with money? That you don't have enough? Then do something
more important. If you don't like that other people have more, then do
whatever it is they do better and distribute that among people you
think "deserve" it, but I doubt you'll be doing that, because it's
HARD right, and even though the rich people work HARD to get their
money, you deserve it more without working as hard. Great philosophy.

I guess our values reflect how import someone's job is; like being an
NBA player? That is important? About important jobs being hard, I
have experience with that. The highest paying jobs I had required the
least amount of work. The only way to 'get in' on one of those jobs is
college education - which is also a sham. Nothing I learned at college
remotely applied to my job at all - practically everything I needed to
know I gained in public school and on the job.

By the way, the rich apparently know a little more than you do, because
the ones who fit in this category do not work but hire others to do the
work for them. If making rudimentary decisions is work, then we all
ought to be rich.

Upsides and downsides.

Thumbprint.
Chip implant.
Retina scan.

Take your pick. You will carry your 'bank account' and status with you always.

The human race has got a long way to go to reach that level. The first step would be the dominence of gold backed currencies vs the current western world fiat currency. There would be no inflation, enequality in national currency value & the concept of credit will disapear. There are currently several countries that have reserves of gold backed currency and other pushing for this standard. This would destroy certain dominant fiat currencies. Guess who? - (hint: may have something to do with the current world climate).

Who decided that gold was a worthy metal? What makes gold worth anything? I am curious to hear some reasons why gold is a commodity is there some use for it that I dont know about? Gold doesnt seem all that useful to me. There are alot of things that you can do with tin and steel. a lot of car manufacturers are pushing for steel to be the monetary equilvelent of gold (joke). I guess this maybe too complicated to explain but I am really curious. Why is silver worth more than iron? Who determined it and what if theyre wrong?

Some rich people, not all ,some have worked very hard during their lives.
Bill Gates deserves 50 billion dollars because he created something that EVERYONE uses everyday and as crappy and complicating as it is....plus everythings EXPENSIVE for computers you would think they were made out of gold.

Could Bill Gates decide that he was going to help alot of people and redistribute his wealth ? Yes, is he Greedy? Proabably. Is he altruistic in anyway? I have no idea.... I thought i had heard that he paid for some college edu for some people

If you took all the money and devide it upequally in on year it would be exactaly the way it is now... Because people that spend money will continue to spend and people that save money will save it

If your a crackhead and spend your money on crack be 100.00 or 1000.00 Youll spend it. If you purchace 30.00 sweaters, youll just buy more the more you have the more you spend.

Let me give you another example...about 10 years ago I worked a job where i brought home 500.00 every two weeks. I paid rent, car payment ect. I also managed to save around 1300.00... My friend who made well over 40,000.00 couldnt even manage to keep his telephone turned on . He actually borrorwed money from me, to turn it on.

By the way, DR wheres my 100.00

Its simple supplie and demand.

Gold is rare, the more rare something is, the more its worth to man.

This has turned in to a rich bashing thread.

Get over it, ge out and do something to get some money. Stop worring aout what others have and get yours. If you say you cant, then die.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
i am not understanding what you mean

I was just trying to tell you not to write that so many sentences if the idea can be expressed in a few paragraphs.

Originally posted by shbaz
Yeah, that works, just ask the Soviet Union. Oh, wait..

There was money in Soviet Union. Alright, maybe not everyone had it in Stalin�s time when he decided to do industrialization in 10 years, but what about the stagnation period when ruled Breznev or Perestroika when ruled Gorbachev? I was a kid when Soviet Union collapsed, but I still remember Soviet rubles.

However you are partly right. They had a plan to get rid of money when the society would advance the communism. Everyone would use resources only as much as he needs and no more. Sounds a bit strange that there were people who really believed this.