"Tanks" Dispel Anti-War Protest in USA

Raising the specter of Tiannamen Square, two armored APC LAV Marine Warrior vehicles appeared at a peaceful US anti-war protest in Westwood, Los Angeles on November 9, 2004. Police cleared the streets when enraged protestors tried to block the tanks. Indymedia published the first report. The Los Angeles Times reported the incident November 12 in an article titled "Military's Presence at Antiwar Rally Is Called a Coincidence." The video is online at Indymedia, infowars, disinformation and elsewhere.




Ordinary people saw "tanks" but weapons afficonados clarify that the vehicles are not tanks, strictly speaking. The military specs: "The LAV-25 is an all-terrain, all-weather vehicle with night capabilities. It provides strategic mobility to reach and engage the threat, tactical mobility for effective use of fire power, fire power to defeat soft and armored targets, and battlefield survivability to carry out combat missions. It is air transportable via C-130, C-141, C-5 and CH-53 E. When combat loaded there are 210 ready rounds and 420 stowed rounds of 25 mm ammunition as well as 400 ready rounds and 1200 stowed rounds of 7.62mm. There are 8 ready rounds and 8 stowed rounds of smoke grenades. A supplementary M240E1 7.62mm machine gun can be pintle-mounted at the commander's station in the turret."

Protestors view the 11/9 military presence as psychological warfare. The message is clear: Bush has big tanks and big guns and he's gonna roll right over you and your rights. Don't get in his way, whatever your nationality, wherever you live. And don't expect special treatment: Bush is no more willing to protect American rights than he is to protect Iraqi rights.

Talk of "Civil War" is not taken lightly by the Bush administration. 11/9 sets the precedent for armed US Military intervention in peaceful American civil protest. Expect American blood shed on American soil before anything gets out of hand. President Bush will not tolerate criticism, peaceful or otherwise.

Following on the heels of the voting fraud scandal and other civil rights assaults, the 11/9 outrage has rekindled the "Impeach Bush" movement. As Ramsey Clark writes on 11/11/04:

Impeachment is not a partisan political issue.

War of aggression is the first offense listed in the Nuremberg Charter as a Crime against Peace. ...President George W. Bush chose to wage a war of aggression against Iraq, which had not attacked the United States and presented no imminent threat to our people, or legitimate interests. ...President Bush and key administration officials engaged in a lengthy campaign of deceit, concealment and false propaganda to create support for, and acceptance of, its war of aggression... A free society, democratic institutions and constitutional government cannot survive such deceit by its own government.

The U.S. has made civilians and civilian facilities its direct object of attack. It has pursued assassination and summary executions as official policy.

The U.S. has employed torture, including torture to death, rape and sexual assault and humiliation, as approved and ordered policy from Afghanistan and Guantanamo to Iraq, inflicted on thousands of prisoners, many, if not most, without any evidence of wrongful conduct.

Haiti, where President Bush forced the elected President Jean Bertrand Aristide from office, is in chaos with many thousands killed by widespread daily violence committed by U.S. supported paramilitaries against Aristide supporters.

Nearly 500,000 have voted to impeach. ...Impeachment now is the only way we, the American people, can promise ourselves and the world that we will not tolerate crimes against peace and humanity by our government. Knowing what we know, to wait longer is to condone what has been done and risk more.

bellaciao.org...

Like any schoolyard bully, Bush only knows one way to deal with disagreement and competition: destroy it, by any means necessary. He simply doesn't see any other options. Whatever you call it - 'emotional vocabulary' or 'social skills' or 'negotiating skills' - it's not on Bush's resume.

Some people say Bush is not mature emotionally, socially or professionally. Others see bullying as the American way. Whomever may be right, Bush is leading America back to the first grade, before democracy and civil rights were on the course list. The talk of civil war highlights America's mood, and its willingness to accept Bush's terms, and fight.

As talk of civil war escalates, levelheaded thinkers recommend the democratic solution: use the law and the democratic process, while it still exists. From abovetopsecret member Emily Cragg:

There are three other alternatives besides civil war for effecting change.

1. Sacrifice--Ghandian tactics. When Christians and Sikhs and Muslims lay down their lives in peaceful protests, the whole world and history and media NOTICE. This is how the Vietnam War was brought to an end. This, likewise is HOW the Soviet Union came down--like mushrooms in the grass. It collapsed because people saw what a sick sick methodology was in use.

2. Legal Remedies. In fact, there are several class-action suits against Bush for crimes against humanity and crimes against the Constitution. Who knows? Maybe they will work out for Justice.

3. Repudiation and humiliation of "middle levels" of "Gummint." If and when the Secret Service and FBI are finally "up to here" with oppression, lies, deceit and games that are being played upon the working and electing populace, it is possible they [and our Military leaders also] will--PROFESSIONALLY--revolt and provide the means [exposing truth and prosecuting Justice themselves] for the return of this nation to a Constitutional Republic--as it was designed to be and as we have all been taught since infancy that it is or was.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Despite what President Bush may think or say, there are always other options.

Related News Links:

www.infowars.net
inn.globalfreepress.com
www.infoshop.org

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
www.disinfo.com...
**Civil War Watch**
**Civil War Watch**


[edit on 14-11-2004 by SkepticOverlord]

[edit on 14-11-2004 by soficrow]

This article saddens me.

1. There is not one verifiable account that this video corrresponds with what is being alleged.

2. When watching this video it appears as though there were protestors WAITING on the military vehicle movement and that they stepped out in front of them.

3. But there is THIS account, that was not mentioned in the ATSNN article (from Indymedia)

I wasn't there at the Tuesday night demonstration in Westwood, but I did do some follow-up investigation this morning about the two armored vehicles.

Turns out the West Los Angeles Veterans Administration was having a Veterans Day parade and celebration this morning (Wednesday). I drove over and walked in to the WLA VA to look around at 10:50am.

Lots of marching middle school ROTC "cadets" (including 11-to-14-year-old boys and girls from Mt. Vernon Middle School all in US Army uniform, some shouldering parade "rifles") and a high school band and antique cars filled with VAFW members. And two USMC Striker armored vehicles complete with 6 or 7 Marines in fatigues and body armor giving junior high ROTC kids and adults tours of the vehicles.

I talked to one Marine with one of the "Striker" vehicles. He told me they had driven the vehicles up from Camp Pendleton the night before (Tuesday) on the freeway. Getting off the 405 Freeway North taking the Wilshire East (instead of WEST to the VA) offramp, they would have passed Wilshire and Veteran where the anti-war rally was underway protesting the attack on Fallujah in Iraq.

I asked him if he was "rolling around Westwood" Tuesday night. He said, "Yeah, and we drove past that anti-war demonstration. We was lost. We're not from L.A. We didn't know where this place (WLA VA) was. We were trying to find it."

"Did you drive around the block twice?" I asked.

"Yeah, we did. We stopped to ask them (the protestors) directions, but they weren't very nice."

There was more conversation, but that was the gist of it from the Marine side concerning the armored vehicles. For what it's worth.

I've also been receiving emails from friends who were at the rally who tell me the LAPD officers said they had no idea why the Striker armored vehicles had shown up.

I researched this entire "story" when it first hit Indymedia several days ago. There was no LA Times report, NOTHING of credibility short of the Indymedia throwing up one guy's video and then "putting a story to it".

I am sad that this is being reported as true, when there is no evidence it is true, but on the contrary evidence that it is NOT.

IndyMedia is very far from a reliable source, and has been going down-hill of late. Their obvious anti-any-government stance taints what should be an otherwise worthy effort of alternative news reporting.

I am personally not a big fan of Bush myself but
this sounds a lot like propaganda to me.
yes we have our problems but I have to agree
with one of the other posts that Indy Media
has really gone down hill, in the same fashion
that Bush (and any other politician) seem to twist
the story to suit there cause so does the Independent
media , and this has the effect of becoming descrediting
for many who used to view Independent media as a place to
get an unbiased opinion.

geo

As Valhall put forth:

Where is the coverage of this event? Not even Al Jazeera had anything on it. This is simply propaganda and its not even that good.

We are seeing a lot of propaganda put forth lately with nothing to back up these reports...just propaganda trying to instill violence it seems to me...... this is really disgusting imo....

Looking at the indy media site there is one person mentioning that ANWSER was involved in this.....if it is true....go figure.. i would like to know exactly who made up this story, and the people involved in the video.... Perhaps if someone ANWSERs for this other liberals/democrats or whoever don't try anything else like this to further their own agenda....



[edit on 14-11-2004 by Muaddib]

[edit on 14-11-2004 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by FredT

Where is the coverage of this event? Not even Al Jazeera had anything on it. This is simply propaganda and its not even that good.

Speaking of propaganda that is not even that good:

My Google news search led to this blurb:
"Military's Presence at Antiwar Rally Is Called a Coincidence"
Los Angeles Times (subscription), CA - Nov 12, 2004

Clicking on the link leads to this window:
www.latimes.com...

My web search led to over 250 articles and posts, revealing the story valhall posted above, as well as other claims and excuses. My reporting was balanced: I acknowledged the claim of "coincidence."

Whether or not the military's presence in Westwood was entirely "coincidental," protestors felt threatened and the larger context remains: Americans are talking about civil war and both sides of the conflict are threatening the use of weapons.

I stand behind my story. There are calmer heads and other options.



.

This has been debunked.

The troops were merely asking for directions as they had missed the turnoff to the freeway, if you miss the turnoff you end up in Wilshire where this video was taken and the troops pulled up to ask for directions.

Originally posted by Muaddib
..just propaganda trying to instill violence it seems to me...... this is really disgusting imo....

The story above acknowledges both sides of the story and addresses the underlying mood of violence and adolescent retaliation pervading America's consciousness.

It speaks to alternate solutions, and outlines other options.

It seeks to deny ignorance, prevent the silencing of dissent and to bring open dialogue into the light of day.

As we all know, the mainstream media routinely ignores critical issues and suppresses information. When dissent reaches a critical volume, we may see a disclaimer - as the Los Angeles Times published on November 12.

In fact, the LA Times headline did NOT say that the military presence was a coincidence, but rather that it was CALLED a coincidence. Hmmm.

Am I still in Kansas? Is this atsnn, or doublespeakspin.inc?



You guys are all joking, right?

Originally posted by Nerdling
This has been debunked.

My searches revealed that government spin doctors say "debunked" but the critics call it "damage control" and "disinformation."


Looks like I'm not in Kansa anymore, after all.

Originally posted by soficrow Am I still in Kansas? Is this atsnn, or doublespeakspin.inc?

The motto at the top of ATSNN is "Deny Bias". The goal is to examine what is reported as "news" from all angles. IndyMedia has evolved, from "Independent Media" to "Anarchist Anti-Government Media" lately. If we're going to "deny bias" we need to be aware of how each news-source has its own style of bias.

Originally posted by soficrow

Originally posted by Nerdling
This has been debunked.

My searches revealed that government spin doctors say "debunked" but the critics call it "damage control" and "disinformation."


Looks like I'm not in Kansa anymore, after all.

Well I actually talked to someone who was there and the troops were quite nervous about the hostility of the crowd. They pulled up for directions as the turnoff is apparently very easy to miss when coming out of the Armory. At one point they shout "lock up the tanks" and prepare to leave but several people get in front of the vehicle and they do move off.

Originally posted by Nerdling

Well I actually talked to someone who was there and the troops were quite nervous about the hostility of the crowd. They pulled up for directions as the turnoff is apparently very easy to miss when coming out of the Armory.

One story says the tanks got lost, another one says they came early to set up for an event at that location the next day - and there are more. Take your pick.

Most of the stories do stipulate that the troops were "quite nervous" - this of course makes them much more "human" than the "hostiles," and therefor more worthy of the reader's sympathy.

In fact, the troops are boys - of course they would be nervous. There they are in their brand new uniforms with their big tanks, big guns and big richards - but nobody moved out of their way! Talk about losing your hard, erm, I mean way.

...but therein lies the problem with bullies and bullying tactics: it's just abuse, and abusers are cowards. Stand up to them and they roll.





[edit considered but rejected in favor of what seemed to be a good line]
.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
IndyMedia is very far from a reliable source, and has been going down-hill of late.

SO - Could you please re-edit the story's title for journalistic accuracy to reflect the fact that the LA Times also reported the incident?

Thanks.



.

I dont believe anything on indymedia its a radical left winged site which has claimed support on terrorist organisations on its forum sites.

Originally posted by MarkLuitzen
I dont believe anything on indymedia its a radical left winged site which has claimed support on terrorist organisations on its forum sites.

A simple Google news search will show you that the story was also covered by the LA Times:

"Military's Presence at Antiwar Rally Is Called a Coincidence"
Los Angeles Times (subscription), CA - Nov 12, 2004


Which, according to the dominant position voiced here, makes the story entirely legitimate.



.

MAP from Mapquest

The star indicates the location of the event. It is easy for first timers to get lost on that offramp as BOTH directions away from the freeway are connected to the same offramp. I concur that they were lost as they had probably left Camp Pendelton 3-5 hours prior and had been stuck in heavy traffic almost all the way north. Between 4:00-7:30pm freeway speeds are between 0-15mph in many places from Orange County to the San Fernando Valley.

Thank you SOFI for bringing this to the attention of ATS. I posted this 2-3 days ago in "Civil War Watch" and for those who are discounting this simply because it has been reported by indymedia. There is actually a video you can see too, if you have quicktime. This is real, there is no question about it. Please stop debunking things like this, yeah don't fall for anything, but at the time you will need to learn to trust some things, or you will not learn the truth. Ditto on NWO, parapsychology and aliens, but for now let's leave that to rest.

Right now, US is on a brink of a civil war. It is a dangerous place to live in, and this tank is only a tip of an iceberg. There is a lot more to come. The earlier you realise this the better. So that you can prepare for your survival and start an emegency information awareness campaign for the foks at home.

Do not discount everything you see on Indymedia or prisonplanet, you will actually find some 80% of what they mention is actually linked from credible news sites and is genuine. I find them an excellent resource. Before, I use to validate everything I found on their site to see if it really from who they say it was. After dozens of validations, I have confidence in this site.

Yes, they definitely are extreme and anti-government, and who shouldn't be when tanks are sent to anti-war protests and police attack people. At least they care about it, and feel it is their duty to inform us. That makes them bigger in my eyes than more established sites like CNN, that only report what the government wants us to hear.

Here is the link again to the video:
www.infowars.net...

Originally posted by Chuck Stevenson
I concur that they were lost as they had probably left Camp Pendelton 3-5 hours prior and had been stuck in heavy traffic almost all the way north.

Another "verified" story says that the tanks came early to that specific location to set up for an event the next day. There are other stories too, all with quotes, so you can pick and choose. But hey if you like this story, stick with it.

The wealth of verified alternate explanations to cover the angles is standard Bush strategy - and a dead giveaway that it's all spin.

But whatever the real explanation for US military presence at a peaceful protest on American soil - the big picture is worse. This President does not respect anyone's rights, be they American or Iraqi. More frightening, every thrust of every Bush campaign pushes American people to adopt his values - and fight against one another, and threaten violence.

Good managers inspire unity, not dirty infighting, violence and repression.



.

But hey if you like this story, stick with it.

I was actually thinking the day I saw it, now how they are going to spin this - tanks appearing at a protest, with police, at night, on the main road, with cars everywhere - and I thought, I know "they'll say the tanks were going for a stroll or were lost" and I thought, could it be possible, that people will believe it, sure they'be been airheaded enough to believe everything else so far, but can they possibly believe this! And now all I can say is

It appears human intelligence has hit a new alltime low. Can he possibly go lower? I am going to let myself be surprised.