Would you clear more of the Amazon for hidden signs of past civilization?

Signals
Yes, we should clear all of it, the quicker the better.

The future of our civilization and humanity itself may depend on what we find...

"You want the truth... you can't handle the truth!"

Think about this way. It's like a gameshow, you can take the certain prize aka the Amazon as it is forest and all, or you can throw it away for "what's in the box" or in this case "what's hiding in the Amazon" ooh the possibilities! Risk going bust however and you bankrupt the planet of a key ecological and environmental resource.

Like another poster stated, I'd wait on the tech. As far as discovering the next cure or animals unknown to science, all of that can be done without deforestation.

No, after clearing more land they might end up with just a bunch of lines like the nazca lines which they won`t have any idea what the significance of them might be.

"hey joe do you see all these lines?"
"yeah, what are they?"
"I don`t know, do you?"
"I don`t know"
"doh, ok lets go home"

MysteriousHusky
"Finnish archaeologist digs up ancient civilization in Brazil"
Source

The clearing of the Amazon rainforest has revealed mysterious patterns in the earth. The large-scale patterns are best visible from the air, where Finnish archaeologist Martti Pärssinen takes pictures of them.

Following a recent news event quoted above I was left pondering the following question. Is it worth clearing more of the Amazon forest to bring further hidden clues of past civilization(s) to light or does the environmental damage outweigh the research benefit?

In recent years you may have seen similar headlines, they seem to be on the rise. Yet as the snapshot from a Discovery article in 2010 reveals these discoveries tend to happen after environmental degradation.

Who would've thought deforestation had an upside?

- Snapshot from 2010 Discovery article

edit on 23-9-2013 by MysteriousHusky because: (no reason given)

In a word "no" I wouldn't.. though i think a lot of forest rotation would not do as much damage. for every acre being dug up and investigated, another acre currently being used should be allowed to grow back into forest. It is relatively quick to grow back. the key is to have it adjoining current forest to keep the biodiversity.

Look into LIDAR friends...as I suggested. They are already surveying areas with it. It sees right through dense forestation...and was developed for this. To NOT have to cut trees down!

They have begun surveying with this last year for archeology in Central America...

"The Archaeology News Network: LiDAR survey 'finds' lost Honduran ...
archaeologynewsnetwork.blogspot.com/.../lidar-survey-finds-lost-hondu...‎Cached May 14, 2013 - The Google Map of eastern Honduras is almost blank. A vast and virtually unexplored rainforest region known as the Mosquitia covers around ..."

Okay, so I googled LIDAR and found that NOAA yes THE NOAA explains what it is for geographical studies etc. See snapshot below with their definition:



However, what if you can't use this type of technology for a legitimate reason such as cost, or lack of airspace access? What if ground deforestation/excavation is the only way to go - that or do nothing.

mysterioustranger
Look into LIDAR friends...as I suggested. They are already surveying areas with it. It sees right through dense forestation...and was developed for this. To NOT have to cut trees down!

They have begun surveying with this last year for archeology in Central America...

"The Archaeology News Network: LiDAR survey 'finds' lost Honduran ...
archaeologynewsnetwork.blogspot.com/.../lidar-survey-finds-lost-hondu...‎Cached May 14, 2013 - The Google Map of eastern Honduras is almost blank. A vast and virtually unexplored rainforest region known as the Mosquitia covers around ..."

edit on 09-22-2013 by mysterioustranger because: (no reason given)

yes it can do what you claim, but you failed to see or just ignored the post i made where i posted this extext quote from a link that grey580 posted about lidar.

notice the part in red.

LiDAR results dwarf what was possible before, even through long-term archaeological projects, such as those at Tikal in Guatemala and Calakmul in Mexico, but the technology has drawbacks. It may not record the remains of completely perishable structures, which may leave only a few lines of stone, though our results suggest it can distinguish features less than a foot high. On-the-ground confirmation, traditional mapping, and excavation are still necessary to add information about how buildings were used, details, and dating.

as i said in my first post, it will work just fine for a preliminary surveying and mapping.
your still gonna have to dig to find out whats in side, how they were built, what they were used for.
which will no doubt require cutting down some trees.

and if it's a significant find, such as a capital city, a temple complex, a new or different style pyramid, the host country will probably want to clear the area, to display their past which i have no problem with.

and like i said in the other post there might even find a king buried inside, you cant do that with a laser.

reply to post by MysteriousHusky

Because its been developed for this very reason. Most airspace is wide open unless it is a governmently restricted area. Tech will win this one out instead of Indiana Jones and a machette hacking in 110 degrees for weeks and months on end.

Intial flyover-2nd pass-over-3rd for verification-stats to archeologist for prime areas to get to. Of course they have to GET to it...but hacking a jungle pass because someone or some legend says somethings there...is a thing of the past.

Now, they will limit destruction for nothing, because its not needed anymore. And funding these expeditions can be better spent because they can go right to the area that shows temples, pyramids, stone foundations etc.

One plane with LIDAR tech and a couple flyovers is way better than Indiana Jones and the jungle and desert destruction caused by hack-search-find-oh,oh-there's-nothing-there! A couple of flights and they know stuffs down there and where to look. What used to take months in the jungle takes only HOURS in a plane.

And they are additionally intending to use it over water for submerged ruins as well.

reply to post by MysteriousHusky


Yeah, sure, Bulldoze the Whole Rainforest, kick natives out of the area and if your lucky massive rain storms will clear the soil and help Create a new Desert, this planet needs all that, say's my deep down Sarcastic flux. No matter what you 'Discover' about yesteryear, How the Heck can such a bunch of pocket filling clowns be doing this planet a favour..........????????

In fact Best thing made by Man was the wonderful, beautiful, cheap to run Nuke plant in Japan, ask TEPCO, they will clearly explain, and I don't think.

reply to post by hounddoghowlie

Of course. But at least one doesnt have to hack away un-necessarily anymore and destroy (as you inquire about) vast areas just to find out and expose potentially undiscovered ruins.

That one step...removes the need to destroy the topography as this thread asks. Perhaps you missed my point.

reply to post by MysteriousHusky


Oh what?

Burn it down we dont need the rain forest anyway. The only thing i care about is having enough oil to power my private jet.

I thought we solved this one already....

Didn't NASA turn one of its deep space telescopes around on earth and with its array of sensors and filters they were able to map out artificial structures in the dense rain Forrest almost spot on?

I am pretty sure that is the road to go down. This way you don't waste time and resources bumbling around and instead go exactly where past civilizations have left their foot prints....

EDIT:
never mind, I see it was already mentioned ......

tadaman
I thought we solved this one already....

Didn't NASA turn one of its deep space telescopes around on earth and with its array of sensors and filters they were able to map out artificial structures in the dense rain Forrest almost spot on?

I am pretty sure that is the road to go down. This way you don't waste time and resources bumbling around and instead go exactly where past civilizations have left their foot prints....

EDIT:
never mind, I see it was already mentioned ......

edit on 9 24 2013 by tadaman because: (no reason given)

YES. There are many other ways.....at our disposal, technologically speaking. But, ah, would this even give us the "truth," then.....probably not. For there are those that will argue it with their last breath, and I have to admit, I am one of them, having seen the past and the future and the supplanted, supposed "reality," and knowing what the price for that particular sight is.....after all.
tetra50

ETA: The way we all know things are, how could we ever expect something like "truth," past present or otherwise, really?

MysteriousHusky

Signals
Yes, we should clear all of it, the quicker the better.

The future of our civilization and humanity itself may depend on what we find...

"You want the truth... you can't handle the truth!"

Think about this way. It's like a gameshow, you can take the certain prize aka the Amazon as it is forest and all, or you can throw it away for "what's in the box" or in this case "what's hiding in the Amazon" ooh the possibilities! Risk going bust however and you bankrupt the planet of a key ecological and environmental resource.

I second that.
We know enough at this point and can wait. Unless it has the secret to world peace or some other magical properties to help us repair the damage already done leave it be. If they can carefully work around a bone when excavating a dianosaur they can work around trees bushes and animals if its that important (non invasive means even if that means a toothbrush and garden shovel). We have to share this world. No one should be screwing with these disappearing forests for a purpose other than one that has great benefit to most of the life on this planet. In this case, it only benefits a few people.

Why do we have to discover everything now, can't we leave some things for our grandchildren to discover in this field? The rainforest needs to stay there.