The Nature of Sin.

I have told many people that I would create a thread talking about what sin actually is. In order to actually understand what sin is we need to look at the word's origin. The word is derived from an Old English archery term,"synn," which means to "miss the mark." So what are we supposed to aim for? Matt. 5:48 says, "be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." If we are not perfect as God is perfect we have missed the mark.

Now, it is pretty obvious to anyone that no regular human can ever hit that mark. God gave us free will. Satan used our ability to make our own choices to make us disobey god.

We know that God is just and fair(psalm 25:8). The penalty for all sin is a penalty we cannot pay. The life of a sinless person. The consequence is death and eternity in hell. So a Just God by his own law must send sinners to hell. However, it is unfair of God to condemn us all to hell without offering some form of redemption. How and why did God do this? Well he created us, so He took responsibility for our faults himself and sent his Son to die for us. He loves us that much.

Notice the spiritual consequence for all sins is the same. Death and eternity in hell. God tells us we will be judged based on how we judge others (Matt 7:1-2,Luke 6:37). So if you say that a murderer has no chance at salvation because he has "missed the mark" then God would say you condemned this man to hell for "missing the mark", so must I do the same for you.

Now I had a good question from someone based on 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18. They asked if born-again Christians still sin. The answer is yes(1 John 1:8-10). The two verses above when translated from the original text literally mean that a born-again Christian does not make a lifestyle out of sin, not that they quit sinning altogether. Link below is a short analysis of the text.

carm.org...

We all sin. Therefore, We all deserve death and we all deserve Hell (Romans 3:10). This is why breaking one point of the Law makes you guilty of breaking the whole Law. The consequence never changes. Now, when we speak of redemption some believe it is a physical action, but its more a change of the mind. It is realizing that you are always going to "miss the mark" even if you try your hardest not too, and that is why you need a Savior. However, no where in the Bible does it say changing your behavior is a requirement to ask for salvation; the only requirement is to know and understand that you need to ask, because you cannot save yourself.

Romans 7
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature[d] a slave to the law of sin.

Romans 8
8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[a] free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.[c] And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb


Very well written assessment. I've heard it said before that Christians fall into sin, un-believers dive into sin.

Here is some material to go along with this thread.

"7 WORDS FOR SIN IN THE NEW TESTAMENT"

Contrary to many modern teachings, all sin is not the same in the New Testament. There are at least 7 different Greek words for sin, each one having a different shade of meaning. This subject is so large that we only have space, in one devotion, to introduce the Greek words for sin:

1. "Hamartia" = "To miss the mark", as in archery competition, and therefore fail to receive the prize, or blessing. This is the general Greek word for sin, and is used 221 times. "Hamartia" encompasses the other 6 words for specific sins, in the sense that in all types of sin, we are "missing the mark". Example: Heb. 12:1, KJV = "the sin (hamartia) which doeth so easily beset us". We are aiming at God's best, but miss it.

2. "Hettema" = "Diminishing what should have been given full measure". Example: 1 Cor. 6:7, KJV = "there is a fault (hettema) among you". We all need God's constant help on this one! Placing emphasis on the things that please God will bring God's wonderful blessings into our life.

3. "Paraptoma" = "Falling when one should have stood". This one is actually an unintentional slip. I guess you've experienced this, as I have, and we are surprised when we realize we've sinned. Example: Eph. 1:7, KJV = We have "the forgiveness of sins (paraptoma), according to the riches of His grace". Even our "slip-ups" are forgiven.

4. "Agnoeema" = "Ignorance when one should have known". Example: Heb. 9:7, KJV = "the errors (agnoeema) of the people". This passage speaks of how the Old Testament was a shadow of the New Testament. Ignorance is no excuse, that's why we stay in the Word!

5. "Parakoe" = "To refuse to hear and heed God's word". Example: 2 Cor. 10:6, KJV = "disobedience". In this passage, Paul urges us to hear God's Word and to bring every thought into captivity for Christ.

6. "Parabasis" = "To intentionally cross a line". Example: Heb. 2:2, KJV = "every transgression (parabasis) & disobedience (parakoe) received a just recompense of reward". When God "draws a line in the sand", we can suffer great loss of rewards and blessings by intentionally "stepping over".

7. "Anomia" and "Paranomia" = "Lawlessness, or willfully breaking God's written rules". Example: Titus 2:14 KJV = Jesus gave himself for us in order to "redeem us from all iniquity (anomia)". God has "rules" to bless us, not to curse us. Someone said "the Bible is the owner's manual for human beings". Can you imagine trying to operate something as complicated as a human life without referring to the owner's manual? That would be just asking for frustration and failure!

biblefood

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

So what are we supposed to aim for? Matt. 5:48 says, "be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

And what's wrong with doing the best we can? No one's perfect, and no one has the right to ask it of us either. Show me a perfect being and I will show you an arrogant egomaniac. After all, one man's perfection is another man's hell. Perfection will inevitably necessitate the presence of hubris and ignorance. So one could argue that perfection is actually a state of sinfulness.

Careful where you step now, it's a slippery slope from here.

Something popular right now in indoor archery competition is what is called a "line cutter".
(Indoor is an important qualifier, since you would not want to use one of these outdoors where the wind would have a good time playing with it.)
What it is, the line cutter, is the absolute fattest arrow shafts allowable by the competition rules.
Scores are judged by human observers who determine if the arrow "cut the line" between for example a 10 (bull's eye), or a 9, which would be the first outer circle. If the arrow cuts the line, the shooter gets the higher score.
The idea being that a fatter arrow may cut that line between the two target score regions, where a skinnier arrow shaft would not. Here's a good video to show how this works.
If you don't want to watch the video, here is a screenshot. My point as far as what "SIN" is, you are either in or out, that is the point of the term, and not measured by degrees, and no gaming the system to where you have a better chance of being counted as being "in".

1 John 3
9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

1 John 5
18 We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them.

John 9
31 We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will.

According to the bible Christians should not go on sinning once they have been born of God and that God does not listen to sinners, yet Christians still call themselves sinners and believe God listens to them. How does this make sense?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Because they are in a perpetual state of being forgiven. That state is necessary because we are "imperfect", and cannot help but forever fall short of the glory of God, so we have to be constantly forgiven for our shortcomings. Or so the theory says.

I will never ask anyone forgiveness for my flaws because they will never ask forgiveness for theirs. What's the point? You're just gonna have to apologize again the next day. Accept the fact that the world and its inhabitants were not born to serve or please you, and embrace both your own flaws and those of your associates. Doing anything else just makes you feel worthless for no reason.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


You missed the point it seems. The bible says those who know God --do not-- go on sinning, yet Christians say they sin all the time. How can they claim to know God and go on sinning if their book says the total opposite?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


You've missed an important passage in 1 John 7-10.

7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

The greek word for 'repent' is μετανοέω (met-an-o-eh'-o), which means 'to change one's mind'. Christians must have a change in desire to sin and turn to Jesus.

Thank God for sin, without it I wouldn't be the man I am today.

How can one learn to become good if they cannot learn from their mistakes?

Sin? Maybe there was intelligent design.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

You missed the point it seems. The bible says those who know God --do not-- go on sinning, yet Christians say they sin all the time. How can they claim to know God and go on sinning if their book says the total opposite?

I don't believe you even read the OP. I addressed both of the verses you are claiming says we do not sin. They are incorrectly translated.

reply to post by UnaChispa


People do not know God from the start, it is a gradual process to learn the truth. To say you are without sin would be lying because we have all sinned before, but that in no way says you cannot stop sinning. Once you come to know God, you stop sinning because you do not have it in you to sin any longer.

This is what John is saying, we have all sinned before, but we can stop sinning if we come to know God.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

 

Because they are in a perpetual state of being forgiven. That state is necessary because we are "imperfect", and cannot help but forever fall short of the glory of God, so we have to be constantly forgiven for our shortcomings. Or so the theory says.

I will never ask anyone forgiveness for my flaws because they will never ask forgiveness for theirs. What's the point? You're just gonna have to apologize again the next day. Accept the fact that the world and its inhabitants were not born to serve or please you, and embrace both your own flaws and those of your associates. Doing anything else just makes you feel worthless for no reason.

A perpetual state of being forgiven? No. We understand that only by grace will we be forgiven for all of our transgressions, and that through Christ we are made clean. I had a debt to pay for all the sins I have and will ever commit. I needed a sinless person to sacrifice them self for me. Jesus paid this debt for me. My sins are paid for. I am not in a continuous state of forgiveness. God has just paid my debt for me.

Ephesians 1:13-14
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by UnaChispa

 

People do not know God from the start, it is a gradual process to learn the truth. To say you are without sin would be lying because we have all sinned before, but that in no way says you cannot stop sinning. Once you come to know God, you stop sinning because you do not have it in you to sin any longer.

This is what John is saying, we have all sinned before, but we can stop sinning if we come to know God.

Definitely not what he is saying.

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb


Definitely is what he's saying.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

 

So what are we supposed to aim for? Matt. 5:48 says, "be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

And what's wrong with doing the best we can? No one's perfect, and no one has the right to ask it of us either. Show me a perfect being and I will show you an arrogant egomaniac. After all, one man's perfection is another man's hell. Perfection will inevitably necessitate the presence of hubris and ignorance. So one could argue that perfection is actually a state of sinfulness.

Careful where you step now, it's a slippery slope from here.

edit on 12-9-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

Nothing is wrong with doing the best you can. You just need to understand that even trying your best you will always fall short. You will always miss the mark. This is why you need a savior friend.

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

I had a debt to pay for all the sins I have and will ever commit. I needed a sinless person to sacrifice them self for me.

Well...that's a disturbing statement, on all kinds of levels. Am I the only one who finds this a little creepy?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Please read the OP you brought up an argument I have already dismissed.....

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb


From your link:

The present active infinitive ἁμαρτανειν [hamartanein] can only mean “and he cannot go on sinning,”

How is this any different from what I'm saying? Those who know God cannot go on sinning. It goes from stating that to this:

What is happening is that John is saying that the one who is born again does not habitually abide in sin.

The only reason to make that leap in logic is to justify Christians calling themselves sinners and the biblical doctrine of everyone being a sinner their whole life.

What John is saying is that everyone has sinned before but once you know God, you "cannot go on sinning", exactly how your link explains it, except they double back on their explanation and giver their own interpretation of it that isn't true to the meaning of the words.

Your link is far from dismissing the contradiction. John does not contradict himself, Christian doctrine contradicts John.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Why is that disturbing?

Don't mean to be a single line guy.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


I have two questions for you:

Do you know God?

If so, do you still sin?