Syria war crimes worsen in battle for territory: U.N. report

All are bad and none are good. That seems to be the conclusion by our friends at the UN.

U.N. human rights investigators said on Wednesday Syrian government forces had massacred civilians, bombed hospitals and committed other war crimes in widespread attacks to recapture territory from rebels this year.

Opposition forces, including Islamist foreign fighters, have also perpetrated war crimes including executions, hostage-taking and shelling of civilian neighborhoods, the investigators said in their latest report, covering the period of May 15-July 15.

Talk about a furball where no one has a white hat to wear!

The independent experts said they had received allegations about the use of chemical weapons "predominantly by government forces ... On the evidence currently available, it was not possible to reach a finding about the chemical agents used, their delivery systems or the perpetrators. Investigations are ongoing," the report said.

Source

That would be the conclusion we all waited for, isn't it? No real conclusion at all by the sound of it. Someone did it...they suspect who, but don't really know. Kinda where it was on day # 1? I suppose it was silly to think the UN would crack the case.

Stay tuned to news today! The wires are busy busy for this time of the morning.

reply to post by wrabbit2000


I just read this article on a Dutch website.
it's not logic to pick sides anymore in the Syrian war because all sides are monsters with innocent blood on their hands. + all the countries delivering weapons to both sides are monsters. But hey ya'll already knew that. This war is the kickoff for something far more terrible... the end of this human civilization. And from the ashes shall rise a better world

reply to post by Annunak1


From the Ashes....Indeed... A very good book series, if you're familiar with it, by William Johnstone. It's probably the only physical paper book series I've read more than once. Fitting to the times..too. I disgress though.

It does seem that we're looking at both sides being dark and malicious in intention. I think the coin flip between them is simply that Assad, for as much as I dislike him and his families history, isn't Jihadi....and as long as he stands as a road bump? The rest of what I think is meant to come, can't follow. It's almost a childish thing, I know, to take comfort in what I know is likely nothing more than delay to the inevitable. Still?

One more day....that is a gift at times, isn't it?

I certainly don't think the UN member states that send in the investigators have any moral high ground to stand on in these instances.
In the wars, sorry, "interventions" we have entered into in the last decade or two have shown, we are also responsible for the bombing of civilian targets, claiming possible military dual use as an excuse to do so. We brush off any resulting civilian deaths as being regrettable colatteral damage then it's off to bomb the next targets without another thought. We'll then bailout when the supposed bad guy is captured and dead and claim a moral and military victory, leaving the area in a state of complete collapse, infrastructure bombed to rubble and in a state of internal conflict.

But hey, the banks are still holding the seized wealth of that country and whoever we installed to temporarily run the place is handing out recoconstruction contracts to the "right" corporations, who take the money then do squat and blame the internal security situation. And best of all, their newly created western run central bank is going to be reaping the rewards for decades to come, impoverishing the country further and creating debt that can never be paid off.

In war, those well placed can really make a killing, as has always been the way, and the body count doesn't factor into the balance sheets. See, if peace broke out all over and people stopped fighting, it would be disastrous for the bankers, so they need to create conflict where it doesn't exist just to keep the profits mounting up.
To try and paint the bad guys of the moment as somehow being barbaric and the western governments as pillars of morality and goodness is a little bit sickening, when they are ultimately the ones profiting from it the most.

reply to post by wrabbit2000


Im not familiar with that book. Sounds interesting though ill check it out.

Assad is a bump in the road for the "Illuminati" and will be taken out sooner or later if not removed from his position. But the downfall for the power hungry elite will be their hunger. For it will never be complete. Eventually all will come crashing down on them as their greed will consume them.

Do you heard/believe in the Red and Blue Kachina prophecy? It sure fits the profile of the future we are heading too

reply to post by Annunak1


I am familiar in a passing way, yes. Not as well as I should be, but then, it came up back with the Elenin craziness so I hadn't pursued it too deeply. I will say I have a deep and sincere respect for Native American belief systems. Theirs are ones I don't shake off casually at any time. It doesn't mean they're always right of course...but they base it on more than simply words on a page in a book, and that means a lot to me.

In this case though, I do rather hope that one comes to be false. The outcome isn't what I'd personally like to see for what comes between now and the last act.

In terms of the books? It's a series actually. A post apocalyptic series. It's actually something I'd think a lot of people here may enjoy, except for a very hard right 'law and order' attitude and philosophy among the lead characters. The basic story line is a post-war America running through successive failed Governments with the main group (Rebels) in the story, trying to make a life and bring a little order to the anarchy of what the world became. It's pretty good reading..and timely, as it happens.

The sequence of events to start the war, as book 1 covers, could have been written today...despite being a late 80's thing for when the series first began. (The books ran across many years and still republish today)

reply to post by wrabbit2000


Actually, the U.N. inspectors said from the beginning that they would not be drawing their own conclusion about who committed the attacks on August 21st. However, they did gather enough evidence to report on what was found so that the nations could decide for themselves who they thought was responsible and they did gather eye witness testimony. Unfortunately, we're probably not going to be able to see this report or information for ourselves for awhile.

In the meanwhile, here is what Human Rights Watch has reportedly found and it sounds like the U.N. basically has all of the same information that they have.

HRW is reporting that East Ghouta was attacked by Soviet 140mm surface-to-surface missiles from "Factory 179" while West Ghouta was attacked by 330mm surface-to-surface missiles that they believe could only have been launched from an Iranian 333mm Falaq-2. Hopefully, if they truly allow an international team to go in to round up chemical weapons, they'll be able to get a better idea of who has what.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by wrabbit2000

I suppose it was silly to think the UN would crack the case.

Have they even released their results yet? The "independent" source link you provide isn't serving.

Still waiting for the forensics, I hope.

A team of UN chemical weapons experts already in Damascus to investigate separate allegations of chemical weapons use managed to gain access to the sites near Damascus on 26 August, five days after the attack occurred.

For four days, they spoke to survivors, nurses and doctors and took blood and urine samples from the districts affected.

They have since returned to The Hague and are awaiting the results of their findings, which they will then present in a final report to Secretary General Ban Ki-moon.

I see. So we are still waiting... US Intel says it did, however...

...admit it did not understand why the government would deploy chemical weapons while the UN team was in the capital.

Neither do I. That is in fact my surest "evidence" the Syrian Government didn't "do it".

www.bbc.co.uk...

Why do we keep trying to frame the Syria conflict in Western terms....

the various sects of Islam in the Rebel ranks And the Assad Forces on the State of Syria side don't give a rats butt about the world ban of chemical weapons... RE: Iran-Iraq, now Syria..

the Geneva Convention Rules on War are not appropos to the various Islamics, so dismembering children or decapitating civilians is not looked upon as being foul or evil

but 0bama reluctantly and late-to-the-table started condemming the gas attack in Syria...thus trying to frame the conflict as a one-sided atrocity by the Assad led Syrian Forces

all i can say is the conflict is not a nicely packaged war being fought by conscientious men on the battlefields
who fight by certain rules of conduct that Westerners see as proper and acceptable/civilized....


reflect back to the crusades, didn't the European forces rally around the idea that they had to subdue the Heathens ... the word heathern meaning more than the non belief in the Christian God or the Catholic churchPope

Related to HEATHEN

Synonyms
barbarian, barbaric, barbarous, savage, heathenish, natural, Neanderthal (or Neandertal), rude, uncivil, uncivilized, uncultivated, wild

Antonyms
civilized

Related Words
coarse, crude, primitive, rough; uncouth, uncultured

DEFUND the FSA, the AQ, the al Nusra, the Jihadists...let the Saudi Kingdom fund the forces against Assad
we do not need to insert US forces in a butchereing conflict of Tens of Thousands of Anarchists who behave as their interpetation of the Quran tells them individually to do.... gassing civilians instead of enemy forces, dismembering squeeling little girls of your rival Islamic sect,....

and engineering a reason for the USA to launch bombs & missiles thus killing many more thousands of the Syrian non-political residents

Sorry for the link issue guys. I hadn't caught that in time. For others like myself that have the AP and Reuters wire running in the background, this crossed AP wires a few mins before I posted. That should pin point the item for wire people. Everyone else, I'm on my phone and can't correct until this afternoon. (holds paw out to slap)

I deserve it... I know. Errrr

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Did your link say anything close to this?

The report states that evidence confirms that at least eight massacres have been perpetrated in Syria by President Bashar Assad's regime and supporters and one by rebels over the past year and a half.

america.aljazeera.com...

reply to post by Deetermined


I assume it's a rhetorical question?

Actually though, it had been a fairly balanced story and it's a shame I dropped a V instead of ctrl-v to pick up the link.

I get out of my anthro course at 10:50 Central, so should have the original up within a half hour of that at most, since this seems to be a major matter to get clarified for more than just good form and professionalism.

Generally speaking though, I don't feel obligated to play devil's advocate on my own stories where all 'facts' are educated guesses or the opposite, with hard reports for anyone to reference. Someone like yourself is sure to cover the other side with more energy than I, at any rate.
Thanks for the added info from Al Jazeera.

So who will help the civillians? As two pigs (read dogs) (the Assad forces and the ones that oppose him) (primitive territorial monkeys) (snips and snips) both terrorize them.... Sigh

Excuse my language, glad my kid is born here.

reply to post by wrabbit2000


The link to your source doesn't work for me.
I can't find anything here either.U.N. Human Rights

I don't think this is necessarily an escalation, recently things haven't been so crazy, everyone is waiting to see which way Obama will jump. With all the world wide protests against the war I wouldn't be surprised if when the troops invaded they supported Assad and attacked the rebels. It's the only way Obama is going to keep credibility.

Good Morning all. As promised. here is the corrected and, as it happens, updated story from what I'd first found this morining. It isn't substantially different, but slightly different wording. Also, it was Reuters as it happens, not AP. My bad on that. I have them both running when I'm on my home set-up and this morning was just full of distractions. Err... Oops.. (sheepish smile)

Original Reuters Story for Thread

Thankfully, someone out there can always be counted on to just lift a story wholesale with copy/paste, which is what the next link is for the language as it appeared early this morning, when I first posted this and prior to updates through this morning.

HuffPo Copy/Paste of original Thread story - Reuters still for original source.

Sorry again... I saw the link and everything else looked good. I just hadn't clicked it to verify it worked. Live and learn, eh?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


For me this whole rodeo is only about one thing the weapons. Everyone in the United States should understand that we could not stop some of this stuff getting in. We don't even know all he has. A simple example is Boston, it was bad, but there was only four dead. Throw in some of this nasty stuff and you could have hundreds dead.

We should do anything to keep these weapons from getting into the wrong hands. As far as this new Russian proposal, give me break, just stall tactic. It would take hundreds boots on ground and ten plus years to destroy this stuff. No going in with civil war going on, they knew that when they suggested it.

Don't be so gullible folks. This is the biggest threat we have faced in a long time. Personally I think it is too late. Coming soon to a neighborhood near you.

The Bot

reply to post by dlbott


So when are you planning to raise your hand and swear the Oath? Which service?

Surely, with such vehemence and determination to see this go to combat, you are going to be serving in one of the armed services, correct? I'd hate to think anyone is enthusiastic about this ....from a position of knowing they'll never have to see or hear anything from it in their own lives?

* I'm being a little snarky here..but not as much as I am wanting to hear a bit more to that logic. It's very hard to find anyone...online or offline...who is for this thing happening or is saying what you are. The media and polticians are...but then, they say all kinds of things with only a fraction being completely honest. You sound real sincere in feeling tho...?