Reuters: Syrian forces may have used gas without Assad's permission

Well, just saw this article on Reuters from a German newspaper.

Syrian brigade and division commanders had been asking the Presidential Palace to allow them to use chemical weapons for the last four-and-a-half months, according to radio messages intercepted by German spies, but permission had always been denied, the paper said.

This could mean Assad may not have personally approved the attack close to Damascus on August 21 in which more than 1,400 are estimated to have been killed, intelligence officers suggested.

Germany's foreign intelligence agency (BND) could not be reached for comment.

Bild said the radio traffic was intercepted by a German naval reconnaissance vessel, the Oker, sailing close to the Syrian coast.

So it seems all requested chemical attacks were denied. Well this could throw another spanner in the works. It seems they are back peddling more and more. If this is true then the commanders that gave the order need to be held accountable.
I am still leaning towards it being a rebel / intel agency attack but thought you guys and girls would find this article interesting none the less.

What do you think?

link

Well the video on this website shows Rafanjani, the ex president of Iran blaming the Syria government. Your theory ties in with an earlier article from Debkka (I know to be taken with a pinch of salt) that proposed it was Assads brother who ordered the attack after being ambushed in this area of Damascus.

maythetruthbeknown.

What do you think?

If this is true, and I don't have an answer for that, two words come to mind.
Plausible Deniability.

Much like the "following orders" defense used by many nazis after WWII, Assad is trying to say he's innocent because he didn't order the use of chemical weapons.

Here's the issue as I see it. There have been questions as to who was behind the chemical attack. Assad or the rebels. Now, with this claim, it seems that the attack did come from the Syrian government, not the rebels which would pretty much seal the nation's fate. Just because the order didn't come from the top, doesn't mean the attack doesn't fall under the responsibility of the government. They had the weapons and they knew that the military wanted to use them and, yet, they didn't do enough to keep this from happening. This makes a case for the destruction of any and all chemical stockpiles in Syria. How is that accomplished? Well, let's see, Assad can promise us he will do this but he cannot even keep his own men from using the chemicals against the rebels so how can we be sure that he will really destroy them? We can't so we do the destroying for him.

So, if this really is a case of the troops acting against the orders of their leader, the country suffers.

If this is a story, made up by Assad's people with the hopes of averting an attack, the country still suffers.

Again, I cannot venture a guess as to the veracity of the claim. I can say that I wouldn't be surprised to find that both sides have used chemical weaponry. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the troops ignored their leader. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the US or some other nation was behind the attack in an attempt to lure the US into military action.

Short of an alien invasion in Syria, nothing would surprise me over there.

reply to post by maythetruthbeknown


This is a blatant propaganda article which offers no clear source or proof of any chemical weapons use by Syria.

It first says only that the Syrians ALWAYS denied there officers request to use chemical weapons.

Then it speculates this time they relented and allowed the use of Chemical weapons.

One speculation upon another without giving a source that one could check. Only saying the source (German Intelligence) wont respond.

I just don't buy that Assad's forces went against orders and used chemical weapons. From the past year it appears that Assad's forces + Hezbollah have been winning against the rebels, at worst its been a stalemate but Team Assad is well aware of the consequences of using chemical weapons, especially going rogue and using them. I'm pretty sure using chemical weapons without orders will equal death.

I'm also weary of how they intercepted this information. Radio messages intercepted by spies? I'm would assume the Syrian gov't isn't chatting away on open frequencies and is using some kind of security? Spying on actual terrorists in the Middle East is easy because they are chatting on open frequencies. Between intercepting phone calls and radio chatter my advice to Assad is to look into some form of cryptology tech already, ask Russia.

This came up in a thread like a week ago. I don't remember what thread in particular. I didn't count this scenario out, and if there actually is proof that can prove this to be the case with Assad having known about it after the fact, he should be held accountable. There are too many scenario's of how this all actually played out and for what reasons, and not one of them seems more convincing than the other. I'm waiting for the U.N. report, because right now it's "U.S. says this, Russia says this, France says this, Syria says this." No proof to back anything on either side, everyone's all talk for the past few weeks.

Isn't a leader responsible for his subordinates?

He should be held accountable.

It is like the same thing when a child does something illegal they go after the parents, but the parents didn't commit the crime.

same thing?

But I dont think we should bomb.

But we should treat them like Cuba and boycott them.

reply to post by Willtell


i agree..

Bild said the radio traffic was intercepted by a German naval reconnaissance vessel, the Oker, sailing close to the Syrian coast.

look at that..this was clearly a set up..what are they doing in syria coast before the attack on damascus? playing poker???

reply to post by cheesy


How do you know it is not a big damn lie?

A bunch of those people are some serious liars.

reply to post by FidelityMusic


Yes, I remember discussing the possibility of rogue factions within the Assad regime using chemical weapons without presidential authorisation in that thread. Altogether a very plausible scenario considering the level of power jockeying that is undoubtedly going on in Syria at the moment.

reply to post by maythetruthbeknown


I know we shouldn't judge a dictator by its cover appearance but I am not certain Assad is the kind of guy to gas thousands of his own people. Over the years watching interviews with him and reading articles about him not once did I think 'hey there is a murderous dictator if I ever saw one'. Nor has there been any previous dictator-like actions, prior to the civil war, attributed to him. I don't deny he has blood on his hands, but mass killing? I am not so sure. Now, a disenfranchised party in the ruling elite thinking they could swing power their way through the use of chemical weapons and knowing what the global response would be, well that is a much more believable story than anything I have heard so far.

reply to post by EvaMarie

Isn't a leader responsible for his subordinates?

He is.

He should be held accountable.

For what?
If you have undeniable proof Assad did it, feel free to share with us.

But I dont think we should bomb

Agreed.

But we should treat them like Cuba and boycott them.

Each to their own.

Or it could be the rebels running a false flag attack with gas they brought in through the borders from whence they came. is Assad in an interview with RT. Doesn't sound like an irrational maniac. He is being set up.

Originally posted by EvaMarie
reply to post by cheesy

 

How do you know it is not a big damn lie?

A bunch of those people are some serious liars.

hey my friend were do you live?
they even dont believe at you by spying you all the time with all technology you have..by drone phone etc..so do you still belive them? they jail you if you have your best self protect weapon? and dont hear what UN say? conggres say? act by self confidence? no no..

reply to post by ragsntatters

Doesn't sound like an irrational maniac.

Just because you don't sound like one doesn't mean you can't be one.

reply to post by maythetruthbeknown


Haha.. now trying to get ahead of Assad's Charlie Rose interview. They really don't want people to start believing it could be anyone but the Syrian army.

Reuters: Syrian forces may have used gas without Assad's permission

Syrian forces may have used gas without Assad's permission.
Syrian forces may have used gas with Assad's permission.
The rebels may have used gas on their own.
The rebels may have been directed to use gas by others.
Both Syrians and Rebels may have used gas.

Someone did. But we don't know who.
I'd bet both sides used it and both sides higher-ups knew it was being used.
No one can prove that ... but it seems pretty common sense to me.

In the video a user posted above, check the 10:10 mark.



In the case of who was shelling Turkey, Assad responded that it could have come from his soldiers. He stated that there needed to be an investigation to find out who actually did it, but the Turkish government refused.

Now what could be different in the chemical weapons case? If he admits it could have come from his side, is it a major blow to his regime and shows they're careless enough to allow this to happen? He didn't have a problem talking about the possibility of his army shelling Turkey, but on a bigger issue of chemical weapons its been "no" from the start.

reply to post by maythetruthbeknown


Maybe the PTB are seeing the stories....lies they are trying to put forward are not working anymore the common man and woman is not buying it this time.



We have citizens openly calling treason on elected officials.

Actually, your thread is extremely related to mine. This is exactly what congressman Grayson has been getting at. The undoctored version of the intel that Obama is using proves this very point!

So we have the US intel and now this. See, all of the pieces are fitting together.

Democratic Congressman - Obama Manipulated Syria Intel - Doctored Evidence - Blocking Investigations

And to quote myself:

Rep. Alan Grayson, D-Fla. has accused the Obama admin of manipulating intelligence on Syria to push for involvement in Syria. According to Grayson, the intelligence briefings provided to congress has not provided one shred of evidence. In fact, the communications prove exactly the opposite, that Assad's officers were surprised by the chemical attack. In fact, according to the New York Times, the White House is backing off their smoking gun claim.

And here is the intel that the US is using to attack Assad. You will find the post that pertains to this in my thread on page 2.

Last Wednesday, in the hours after a horrific chemical attack east of Damascus, an official at the Syrian Ministry of Defense exchanged panicked phone calls with a leader of a chemical weapons unit, demanding answers for a nerve agent strike that killed more than 1,000 people

On page 3 of my thread you will find in interesting email with info written by Grayson himself. He can't tell us what is in the classified 12 page intel on why we should attack Assad, but he hinted twice that it was no different than the public version I listed on page 1. There is no substantial proof that we should be attacking Syria.