Atheist/Agnostics: Please come and tell me what you think.

reply to post by ShadellacZumbrum


We are speaking of the doctrine/dogma of inherited original sin,... not the "first" sin.

As provided in the reply, there are plenty of verses in the Bible proclaiming the innocence of children, while teaching that all humans are responsible for their own sins, wickedness, and wrong-doings,... and that none can atone for the sins of another.

reply to post by Klassified


Wrong yourself. The original sin was Lucifer's pride.

Originally posted by bozzchem
reply to post by Klassified

 

Wrong yourself. The original sin was Lucifer's pride.

Well done, but I think we were talking about humans, not angels.

reply to post by mysterioustranger

One can be a serial killer, dictator, child molester their whole life WITHOUT worrying about whether or not theyll go to Heaven. They think that they can be that way right up to the end and scream" God, save me! I repent of my sins!"...and they will get the "golden ticket".Lead a horrendously evil life...and still be saved. Just yell it out loud n clear at the very last second.....and youre good to go..

Good to go... but WHERE?

Hell is FULL of "believers" who believed just that.

Apparently mans definition of "believer" is not the same as God's definition.

On August 3, 1979, Howard Pittman, a Baptist minister for 35 years, died while on the operating table during surgery and had a near-death experience.

Instead of allowing me to enter, the angel stationed me before the Gates, slightly to one side. He instructed me to stay there and watch as the saints were permitted to enter into Heaven. This point was so important that the Holy Spirit told me Himself. I watched the fifty saints enter Heaven, but the point I missed was the time frame involved.

It was explained to me that at the same time those fifty saints died on Earth, 1,950 other humans also died; or only 50 out of 2000 made it into Heaven. That other 1,950 were not there. Where were they? That was only 2 ½ percent going to Heaven! Ninety seven point five percent did not make it! Is that representative of the entire world today? If so, 97 ½ percent of the population of this world today is not ready to meet God.

Placebo by Howard Pittman

Christians in Hell

The two angels escorted me to Hell. I then saw many pastors, elders, and deacons in Hell. I asked the angel, “I know them. They had served God faithfully while on the Earth. They had died some time ago. We all had thought they were in Heaven with God. But now, I see them all in Hell and they are crying out that it is so hot! Why are they here?” There were so many pastors, elders, deacons and all other lay believers.

The angel answered, “Pastor Park Yong Gyu, a person can appear to be a true follower of Christ on the outside but God knows the heart.

There are multitudes of churches on the Earth and many of the churches are filled with many people. However, most of them are not true Christians. They are but church attendants. The true churches will firmly believe in Heaven and a Hell. The lives of many Christians are in chaos because they do not firmly believe in Heaven and Hell. When one soul enters Heaven, one thousand cursed souls enter Hell. The rate of Heaven and Hell is 1 to 1000.” (Matt 7:14)

Heaven & Hell 1000 to 1

Bishop Wilfred Lai is the founder and senior Pastor of Jesus Celebration Center in Mombasa, Kenya and it is a church of over 15,000 members. One day he asked the Lord how many of them were ready for heaven and the Lord told him only 200. Only 1% of that church is going to heaven! Dr. Lai said that some pastors have created large groups of sinners meeting in the name of God. “What you have are not churches, but large congregations of sinners.”

Message from Pastor Wilfred Lai

Just be a good person.

Regardless.

Originally posted by ServantOfTheLamb
Ok, so I constantly see atheist who get on here and are completely wrong about what Christian believe is necessary for entrance to heaven. You see Christianity is unique in a very special way, but before I explain the Christian Doctrine I would like to get a few responses from atheist/agnostics on what they believe Biblical Christianity says is required for salvation, and then I want to challenge them to find another religion in which the requirement of salvation is the exact same, or similar with the only difference being the name of the individuals.

With all the different flavors of Christianity, either there is one that is right, or they are all wrong.

They can't all be right because many of the beliefs are mutually exclusive. For example, according to the Pope, Atheists will get in to heaven if they "do good" Then according to Jehovah Witnesses only "144,000 faithful Christians" get to go. They cant both be right, so either one or both are wrong.

Seems like a game of spiritual roulette to me, with your soul to lose if you choose incorrectly.

I dont understand how anyone would want to play that game in the first place.

DC

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb


my opinion is irrelevant-but if an alledged Christian doesn't quote john 3/16 , I have to wonder

So you want to know what a person that does not believe in heaven thinks your requirements to get there are?
You are also implying there is only one correct interpretation (yours).
There is no right or wrong, only varying levels of interpretation.
How litteral to take what parts and not others.
Ironically your statement is flawed as a belief technically cannot be right or wrong, at least not to the individual holding it, By definition they have already accepted it as truth. (Only the facts used to justify it can).

Why just limit it to atheist and agnostics,christians should chime in too because from my experience a lot of christians don`t even know the answer to this question.
lets get it straight from the horses mouth so to speak and see what jesus himself said:

15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

So, there we have it right from jesus himself, you must believe and be baptized.He even throws in a bonus by telling us how we tell who is a true believer and who is a fraud.True believers can drink poison and not die, they can heal people merely by touching them.
Notice he used the word "and" which indicates it isn`t an option it`s a command. believe and be baptized. also notice he used the word "will" a lot.

Originally posted by ServantOfTheLamb

Originally posted by OpenEars123
It's a tricky question for atheists, because they all believe it's just nonsense.

I'm not sure you will find what you're looking for in this thread...

Well if you are going to oppose a POV you should at least be educated in what they believe.

You're missing the point, most atheists thinks it's nonsense because they' do' understand what Christians believe.

reply to post by Tardacus


As you have referenced Mark 16:15-18,... it speaks of calling on Jesus' name and casting out demons. Let us continue with this concept and see what Jesus says about calling his name and casting out demons:

Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

(Matthew 7:21-23)

As we see, belief alone is not enough. Doing God's will is the ticket. And according to Matthew 22:36-40, the greatest command is to love God and then to love your neighbor.

Personally, my opinion is that God is all of existence, all that ever was, and all that ever will be. Therefore, to love God means to love existence. And my personal opinion about "love your neighbor" means to love all of mankind. Thus, God's Will is "Love".


Peace.

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

What you call 'Biblical Christianity' is not Christianity. It is a degenerate cult in which the Bible is effectively elevated to divine status by being deemed infallible. Real Christians have a name for it; they call it bibliolatry.

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

the problem of evil which is completely taken care of by scripture

By putting the blame on mankind?

The monotheistic concept of God founders on the Problem of Evil. No solution has ever been found that acquits God of the responsibility for all the suffering in the world.

reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

Show me where a God came and died to save the world?

Try the Aztec Legend of the Five Suns, which also features a god who descended into the underworld to recover the souls of the dead.

Originally posted by xdeadcowx
With all the different flavors of Christianity, either there is one that is right, or they are all wrong.

They can't all be right because many of the beliefs are mutually exclusive. For example, according to the Pope, Atheists will get in to heaven if they "do good" Then according to Jehovah Witnesses only "144,000 faithful Christians" get to go. They cant both be right, so either one or both are wrong.

Seems like a game of spiritual roulette to me, with your soul to lose if you choose incorrectly.

I dont understand how anyone would want to play that game in the first place.

DC

This is the reason that I stated Biblical Christianity. I follow the Bible, that is all.

I consider myself agnostic. In fact, because agnostic literally means "without knowledge," I consider everyone else agnostic, too, despite what they choose to believe.

To answer your question, I think most self-proclaimed Christians believe what has already been stated. That if you confess and believe in Christ as your savior, you will go to heaven. (baptism optional)

I have met a fair enough number who believe that what really matters is your actions. If you live a life of good works and avoidance of evil, then you will be judged righteous and allowed into heaven, regardless of your beliefs.

I personally would never believe in a God who would choose to save only those who believed in ancient myths that lack physical proof and evidence despite their good will and unselfish love. Moreover, I could never love a God like that. I have met many people in my life who adamantly believe that Jesus is the only way into heaven who I would consider too wicked to be allowed to teach Sunday school, much less enter into the holiest place in the universe. If those people go to heaven and the kindest and most unselfish people I know go to hell simply because one chooses to believe the myth and the other does not, I would be glad to go to hell just so I would not spend eternity with a God so unjust. I think that if this is what you believe, you should seriously re-evaluate your interpretation of scripture and perhaps seek another form of spiritual enlightenment.

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

 

Show me where a God came and died to save the world?

Try the Aztec Legend of the Five Suns, which also features a god who descended into the underworld to recover the souls of the dead.

That was a nice little story I enjoyed that thanks! He only journeyed to the underworld he didn't die to go there. They all sacrifice themselves to become the sun, but they never kill themselves in order for humans to be given salvation. Also polytheistic not very similar at all.

Originally posted by GodIsRelative
I consider myself agnostic. In fact, because agnostic literally means "without knowledge," I consider everyone else agnostic, too, despite what they choose to believe.

To answer your question, I think most self-proclaimed Christians believe what has already been stated. That if you confess and believe in Christ as your savior, you will go to heaven. (baptism optional)

I have met a fair enough number who believe that what really matters is your actions. If you live a life of good works and avoidance of evil, then you will be judged righteous and allowed into heaven, regardless of your beliefs.

I personally would never believe in a God who would choose to save only those who believed in ancient myths that lack physical proof and evidence despite their good will and unselfish love. Moreover, I could never love a God like that. I have met many people in my life who adamantly believe that Jesus is the only way into heaven who I would consider too wicked to be allowed to teach Sunday school, much less enter into the holiest place in the universe. If those people go to heaven and the kindest and most unselfish people I know go to hell simply because one chooses to believe the myth and the other does not, I would be glad to go to hell just so I would not spend eternity with a God so unjust. I think that if this is what you believe, you should seriously re-evaluate your interpretation of scripture and perhaps seek another form of spiritual enlightenment.

B.B. Warfeild said, “It is not difficult to understand why a just God does not save sinners, but how a just God saves any sinners.”

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by ServantOfTheLamb

 

the problem of evil which is completely taken care of by scripture

By putting the blame on mankind?

The monotheistic concept of God founders on the Problem of Evil. No solution has ever been found that acquits God of the responsibility for all the suffering in the world.

God didn;t put the blame on you thats why he came to die in your place?