The Myth That Pointing the Finger at the US is Anti-American

I'm an American, I love the idea of what my country is supposed to be. We're supposed to be about freedom and liberty. My country is not behaving as it should yet other Americans even though they disagree with action against Syria too, get mad at me when I point out the bad things we have done outside our borders, they call or at least think of me as hating America. I see this as a logic disconnect and perpetuating the myth that speaking out against this pattern of war and being world police, is anti-american. I call it taking responsibility, I call it expecting my country to stand up, grow up and behave like a responsible nation. We cannot break this cycle if we don't acknowledge and demand to change the behaviors that drive it.

We have consistently done the wrong thing outside our borders and we need to talk about it so we can go about making sure we stop it.

reply to post by Kali74

We have consistently done the wrong thing outside our borders and we need to talk about it so we can go about making sure we stop it.

Some would argue that actions be undertaken within domestic borders is equally as troubling. I think an introspective look at the current framework of the U.S. is required, which i think you may have alluded to.

But, how can any nation hope to act in-line with its popular consensus on foreign issues, if it cant get domestic issues straightened out?

Fix the root of the problem in my opinion and everything else will fall in line.

It`s not politically correct to point out faults, we have an entire generation that was raised to believe that you`re a hater if you point out unethical or illegal faults of others.
Perhaps that was the plan all along, to create a generation that would find it unacceptable to point out the faults of others and of the government. A perfect generation of sheeple who would just meekly accept anything that the government does without saying anything.
The whole acceptance and tolerance political correctness fad has caused a lot of people to think that they should accept and tolerate anything the government does even if it`s illegal or unethical.

reply to post by Kali74


With foreign occupation has come in increase in terrorism. People resorting to drastic measures as they do today is a symptom of other things as well (globalization for one) but this is an association directly in line with your topic. People protect their identity, fiercly in cases like terrorism, and the more that is threatened coupled with a higher degree of displaced responsibility (less personal responsibility), the harder people push back.

It isn't anti-American to point out when our government is flat out wrong. What is anti-American is to say that America is the only one who is wrong; or that America is the biggest problem in the world; or that Iran or whoever is innocent and America is guilty guilty guilty. THOSE are wrong and are anti-American .... but not pointing out when the gov't is screwed up.

“I'm sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and disagree with this administration, somehow you're not patriotic. We need to stand up and say we're Americans, and we have the right to debate and disagree with any administration.”

― Hillary Rodham Clinton

About the truest thing she has ever said.

I wouldn't call it a myth.

I see it as a manipulation technique to shut down any critical thinking
and further criticism by ridiculing and bullying them. It is conditioned
into the ignorant masses, so every time someone criticizes US policy
their knee jerk reaction is to repeat what they have been told
by their authorities.

Other obvious examples is "If you got nothing to hide you have nothing to fear"
which sadly works on way to many people who can not be bothered to think
for themselves.

In Norway they have a word for this (hersketeknikker) which directly
translated would be ruling techniques. It is listed on wikipedia as
Master suppression techniques.
Bill O'Reilly is a true master of this very effective art.

reply to post by Kali74

Lets make this distinction which is intentionally blurred by the establishment.

Government IS NOT country. Thats right, your government is not America.

I'm America, youre America.

The American government is comprised of lying, dishonest, politicians who are slaves to lobbyists, special interests and political action committees. They could care less about the American people.

But somehow, we're "unpatriotic" if we dont support these scum bags...

We point the finger at the gov't as US citizens and were the bad guys. Civillians speak up and protest, again were the bad Americans. Anything US civillians do that goes " against the grain " will make you the bad guy (this is applicable not only in American Gov't but day to day life in America as well)

Politically correct has worn out it's ugly rearing head.

I heard this over a social network and thought it was a profound idea. How to get all American's onboard, is a step past me and it goes.

Next, presidential electection ALL American's should not vote to protest our gov't, since they won't listen then we won't vote.

The above stated could go either way in the field of protesting, for the better or worse. The point is, what will make them listen, what will help our political leaders understand?

And I digress~

Nice OP Kali

reply to post by Kali74


Disagreeing with American policy isn’t the ‘anti-Americanism’ some of us complain about. This video sums up the attitude of the typical elitist anti-American (and here’s a hint….this attitude isn’t limited to Europeans).



The condescending anti-American attitude is what peeves me.

* Disagree with, complain about, make suggestions, take exception, criticize, etc!

* Disrespect, generalize, insult, be rude, arrogant, condescending, etc.

reply to post by MDDoxs


Absolutely. I think the people's unwillingness to get involved in Syria can serve as a catalyst.

reply to post by Tardacus


I think there are plenty of Americans at the moment not blindly following the war rhetoric being heaped on us, which is a good thing but it falls short, we need to be having conversations about the illegalities of the things we have done in foreign wars and the true reasons why we get involved in the 1st place. Until we do this we are doomed to repeat.

reply to post by Dianec


That's a good point about protecting identity, I think that is no small part of this conundrum... it's like knowing your child or parent has committed a crime and citing everything that person has had to go through in their lives instead of admitting our own failure in not finding a way to get that person a different set of coping skills.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Certainly other nations have their problems, some commit horrible atrocities. The thing is though is that the US actively pursues involvement. We forget that if it's outside our borders we don't actually have to do anything. If you and I get in a fist fight and someone on scene tweets it out and some random person across town reads about it and promptly heads over and just arbitrarily decides who is right and who is wrong and knocks one of us out... what is their justification for getting involved? None... and dude just made off with the knocked out person's iPhone.

reply to post by beezzer


Indeed.

As an american, it is my duty as a citizen of this constitutional republic to voice my displeasure with my government when ever it occurs.

It is anti-american to silence such discourse, scoundrels hide behind patriotism in the defense of this countries tyranny, a true patriot sees the ills of his country and tries to heal them.

I struggle with this too.

I am especially attacked for criticizing the US because I am living abroad at this time- that somehow is supposed to make ones ability for critical thought handicapped.

On the contrary, I think it gives a wider perspective, with more knowledge of what else is "out there", and different perspectives.

The thing that seems to bother a lot of people is that my ideas of what could be worked on or made better in our country, I share amongst my peers (americans), and those ideas of what could be made better in France, I share with French people.

For me, to do otherwise is not constructive. The Americans hearing about the faults of France are not going to have any power to change them than are the French hearing the faults of America.
So what I get in response is "Oh you think the other country is so perfect!"

If I have a criticism of a friend, I tell it directly to them- not to someone else!

I don't feel that any country is ultimately better than another, all countries have weaknesses and faults.
The problem I see with not saying anything and being in denial about them is that ultimately these can be self -destructive, and so you are (perhaps unintentionally) encouraging the destruction of your own country in the long run.

Originally posted by MDDoxs
reply to post by Kali74

 

We have consistently done the wrong thing outside our borders and we need to talk about it so we can go about making sure we stop it.

Some would argue that actions be undertaken within domestic borders is equally as troubling. I think an introspective look at the current framework of the U.S. is required, which i think you may have alluded to.

But, how can any nation hope to act in-line with its popular consensus on foreign issues, if it cant get domestic issues straightened out?

Fix the root of the problem in my opinion and everything else will fall in line.

edit on 6-9-2013 by MDDoxs because: (no reason given)

That's a lot like what happened to Rome. For the US it looks like for deferent reasons but same effect. Overtaxed and overspending on the domestic front while trying to maintain force and influence abroad on a large scale.

reply to post by Kali74

If you and I get in a fist fight and someone on scene tweets it out and some random person across town reads about it and promptly heads over and just arbitrarily decides who is right and who is wrong and knocks one of us out... what is their justification for getting involved? None...

You just summed up every single war America has entered by comparing it to, twitter.... The comparison itself is uncanny~

Were humanitarians to the entire world, when we need to be humanitarians in our own boarders and fix "our's" first.

How can we fix someone else's shoddy economy, civil affairs when our crap smells and the country were supposedly helping doesn't even want us there in the first place...

Sure, the war will supposedly "stimulate" the American Economy but then again a 12yr war has done the exact opposite.

Bah, I digress again...

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by MDDoxs
reply to post by Kali74

 

We have consistently done the wrong thing outside our borders and we need to talk about it so we can go about making sure we stop it.

Some would argue that actions be undertaken within domestic borders is equally as troubling. I think an introspective look at the current framework of the U.S. is required, which i think you may have alluded to.

But, how can any nation hope to act in-line with its popular consensus on foreign issues, if it cant get domestic issues straightened out?

Fix the root of the problem in my opinion and everything else will fall in line.

edit on 6-9-2013 by MDDoxs because: (no reason given)

That's a lot like what happened to Rome. For the US it looks like for deferent reasons but same effect. Overtaxed and overspending on the domestic front while trying to maintain force and influence abroad on a large scale.

And one must remember that was how Julius Caesar became an emperor.

Popular leader with a populous agenda, after the corruption of the senate got out of hand, it was easy to destroy the republic to make an empire than.

reply to post by Kali74


It isnt in trying to help people utilize better coping skills as much as understanding where they are coming from. I think my post jumped right to looking at why we critisize this country rather than why that should be justified (affected too much by Syria I guess).

We need to be especially critical because we are still an experiment - democracy and individualist society to the extreme. We can say what is working as well. Its just that the focus is usually on what we're doing wrong. That's to be expected.

reply to post by benrl


And it took a mob of senators in a cloak and dagger reaction to remove him from power

reply to post by sulaw


You brought me to the ultimate point I was trying to make. "Humanitarian". We use this word to define what we do when it is anything but. It is war, it is picking a side most advantageous to government and their pimps. We get to call out government, that's all well and good... no one calls that anti-american but when we start touching on why the government does the things it's does and we start calling out the profiteers, suddenly it's "You hate America!" "You ignore the wrong everyone else does!" ... I can't do anything about the wrong other nations do, I can only talk about why our government does what it does. We have a mercenary government and I'm not anti-american for saying so.

reply to post by Kali74


A humanitarian to me is best described as a "Good Sumaritan", one who helps others in need to relinquish strife or misfortune and doesn't look for a payback of any sorts...

To that extent, I can see where our Gov't has played that role because we do send aid to other nations in effort to alleviate suffering, be it a natural disaster or whatever have you.

However, America does not do anything without good cause or a payback of some sorts, at least that's how I feel. That's not Humanitarian ~ whether it be immediate, long term or just down the road America is always looking for something in return.

That's where I see our Government being Mercenaries, this is spot on. America is the "Hot Hooker" for hire and you don't want to piss off that hot hooker... For when she rears her ugly face, heads tend to roll....