Jesus presents Himself as God

reply to post by jmdewey60


The reason that Abraham was a recurring theme is because they thought that they only had to be in Abraham's bloodline in order to be saved. Jesus was telling them that just wasn't the case.

John 8:33

33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

John 8:39-40

39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

Jesus Christ, Our Lord and Savior proclaims He is God again. How patient.

Everything He says is true. Please believe.

Light of Mary is messenger from Latin America so this is a translation.

+ + +


MESSAGE FROM OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST

TO HIS BELOVED DAUGHTER LIGHT OF MARY

AUGUST 23, 2013


My beloved People:


I am a splendid light.


I am a sun in the fullness of midday.


I am a light that shines in the firmament.


I am a star that decorates the firmament, and at the same time, I am the tired feet of those who walk secure.


I am hands that not only receive but that give what they have.


I am a heart that burns, that beats with Eternal Love for Its creatures.


I am a tongue that clarifies what this generation lives in this instant.


I am eyes that see beyond where human eyes see.


I am, at once, thought and memory.


I am a conscience that urges you, instant to instant, to remain on the right path.


“I AM WHO AM”


My beloved, My beloved People, for whom I have come time and again, for whom I gave Myself and for whom I continue to give Myself ardently…


I am eyes, eyes that weep continuously before man’s injustice.


I am eyes that weep seeing thousands and thousands of innocent children fallen vilely because of minds that are perturbed and in Satan’s clutches.


I am eyes that see everything, eyes that scrutinize hearts and minds, farther than where you can think.


I HAVE COME TO EACH GENERATION TO CLARIFY MY WORD, I HAVE NOT COME ALONE, I HAVE COME WITH MY MOTHER WHOM SO MANY SCORN,

IGNORING THAT SHE IS:


THE INTERCESSOR BEFORE ME, MY FATHER’S FAVORED ONE, THE ONE WHO IS TEMPLE AND TABERNACLE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.


And how can you invoke the Holy Spirit in you if you only love that which is His gifts and scorn She who is His Temple and Tabernacle?


LOVE MY MOTHER, BEYOND WHAT YOU LOVE HER, SHE IS THE DEFENDER OF MY PEOPLE, TO HER I HAVE ENTRUSTED MY CHURCH, and the one who does not cling to Her Protection/Help, is like the one who walks with a band over his eyes -- he will walk but will always find obstacles in his path.


My beloved People:


How little of a conscience the powerful who subjugate the peoples maintain! What little love towards Me and what little gratitude towards My House!


I AM LOVE AND JUSTICE AT THE SAME TIME, I come soon with a scale in My hands and each one of you will present yourselves with your works and your actions before Me to be weighed in My Scale, for I am not only Love, but Justice, if not, I would not be Your God.


I will come for those who are faithful to Me, for those who listen to Me and do not scorn My Calls and those of My Mother.


I will come for those who know how to walk in Faith even though their feet are completely covered in wounds because of life’s mishaps and stumbles.


I come for those who have known how to say: YES LORD, I AM HERE PRESENT! Yet not only in word, but with full Faith, with works and actions, giving testimony of what they confess with their tongue.


I come for My People, for those who suffer, I come for the People who suffer oppressions and for the People who in this instant suffer the effects of ill-used science, before the predominant desire of the great Nations to seize all the Earth.


How much My Heart suffers and how many tears My Mother sheds seeing a humanity that battles against itself, that has destroyed its heart and values, not only in daily living and sharing, not only against its own body, but it has destroyed the spiritual values!


With so much bitterness I see those who confess faith before Me and are not sincere but are instruments that the devil uses to increase the antichrist’s riches! The one who will call himself the powerful one, him they will serve, knowing his infernal aims.


Man rushes himself individually towards a precipice, and humanity is collectively led by the egotistical desires of a few leaders, towards a holocaust and towards suffering…


My beloved People:


YOU ARE NOT ALONE, I DWELL IN YOU AND WALK WITH YOU, I SEE IN YOU, I SPEAK IN YOU, BUT…


… I do not dwell in those who battle against humanity itself and against My very Creation.


… I do not dwell in those who debase the minds of men.


… I do not dwell in those who usurp My children’s life.


… I do not dwell in those who act with a destructive science.


YOU KNOW WELL WHAT IS COMING, AND I CLARIFY TO THOSE WHO ARE MINE, because it is necessary to continuously remind man of what remains before him, since man easily forgets and becomes distracted by banal and worldly affairs.


I called My Disciples to follow Me through all paths, to follow Me to the Cross and beyond It. So I have called you, My true children, those who do not fear raising their voice before the cruel and powerful, who do not fear proclaiming My Truth of Love and of Justice.


You, those who just like in the past cast the nets into the sea to achieve a greater catch ....

www.revelacionesmarianas.com...

reply to post by Unachispa

Reasons for an early date, before 70 A.D. and possibly no later than 62 A.D.

None of the arguments on the web page you linked to hold up under any kind of scrutiny.
That is for "true believers" who want to go on thinking that everything between the covers of the Bible they carry to church is as good as if God had written it Himself.

From a historical perspective— just to take an example— writings that were actually written by Paul were themselves products of their time, based on things Paul heard, experienced, and thought, just as were the writings produced by others in his name. As a historian I do not value the authentically Pauline writings any more or less than later “Pauline” writings that were forged.

Ehrman, Bart D. (2012-11-16). Forgery and Counterforgery: The Use of Literary Deceit in Early Christian Polemics (p. 8). Oxford University Press, USA. Kindle Edition.

The above quote comes close to describing my use of Colossians earlier, that it serves as a historical document of the times when it was written, regardless of whether Paul wrote it or not, but it is useful if you can properly place it in time rather than sticking to a belief that Paul actually did write it.

You may want to start a thread yourself to defend the authentic authorship of the New Testament books since it is probably a bit off-topic on this one.

reply to post by jmdewey60

It does not mean the person, God, becomes a human being.
It means a heavenly person who is in the form, "god", generically, who happens to be on very close terms with the Supreme Being, God. This "son of God" becomes a man, while God is still up in heaven going about His "god" duties.

That's true, yet at the same time, each one of us has the ability to be filled with the Holy Spirit. Does that mean that the Holy Spirit is separate from God?

Why are we supposed to be baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit?

reply to post by colbe

Light of Mary is messenger from Latin America so this is a translation.

Do you realize that you just spammed up a big chunk of this thread in about the most annoying way possible?
You could just condense all that down for us and give a single line of its significance.
Your only commentary is "this is true, so believe it".

reply to post by Deetermined

. . . each one of us has the ability to be filled with the Holy Spirit. Does that mean that the Holy Spirit is separate from God?

Why are we supposed to be baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit?

There is someone called in the New Testament, The Holy Spirit, who is a distinct person from God and Jesus.
"The Name of the Holy Spirit" that we are baptized in, refers to one of the three persons in the godhead who are directly involved in our salvation experience that baptism signifies.
There is also a spirit that happens to be holy, that we can be filled with, that comes originally from God and through Jesus as the intermediary by our belief in him.

reply to post by colbe

I HAVE COME TO EACH GENERATION TO CLARIFY MY WORD, I HAVE NOT COME ALONE, I HAVE COME WITH MY MOTHER WHOM SO MANY SCORN,

IGNORING THAT SHE IS:

THE INTERCESSOR BEFORE ME, MY FATHER’S FAVORED ONE, THE ONE WHO IS TEMPLE AND TABERNACLE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.

Sorry, Colbe, but I've already posted the Bible verses showing that God and Jesus are the temple in heaven. I don't have a problem with people claiming the Holy Spirit as the mother aspect of Father, Mother, and Son, but if you're referring to Mary, she's just not it. She was indeed human through and through and the Bible makes no reference of her being divine.

reply to post by jmdewey60

"The Name of the Holy Spirit" that we are baptized in, refers to one of the three persons in the godhead who are directly involved in our salvation experience that baptism signifies.

Well, you're getting closer. Now you just need "ears to hear".

Mark 12:29

29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

There is also a spirit that happens to be holy, that we can be filled with, that comes originally from God and through Jesus as the intermediary by our belief in him.

That would be the Holy Spirit. You will find no reference to any other spirit that's capable of being the intermediary. Anytime you see the word, "Spirit" capitalized, it's referring to the Holy Spirit.

reply to post by Deetermined

Well, you're getting closer.

What, are you some kind of Oneness believer?
That is not normal, I should point out.
Normal Christianity has a belief in the Trinity where there are three distinct persons of the godhead.
That means that Jesus is a person who before being a human, was of the generic form, "god".
God Himself is the person not just of the forn, god, but the prototype where the god form is derived.
That explanation may not be Orthodox but it is how I can explain it in a human way.
"Orthodox" in comparison with the view of certain fourth century church representatives, who came up with the associated Creed.
I don't think that most Christians are of the so-called orthodox opinion if you were to ask them directly what they think about the Trinity.
My guess would be that most Christians think that the Father is superior in some way to the Son. And so my label, normal, rather than the obsolete label, orthodox, as if you are mentally defective and need to be corrected with a stake burning.

reply to post by Rycas


Oh.... Many things were sorted out by sword, political maneuvering, not inviting certain bishops, and murder. Thank God for Qumran and the Eastern dispersion.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Here's what "normal Christianity" believes...

The Trinity is considered to be a mystery of Christian faith. According to this doctrine, there is only one God in three persons. Each person is God, whole and entire. They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin: as the Fourth Lateran Council declared, "it is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds". While distinct in their relations with one another, they are one in all else. The whole work of creation and grace is a single operation common to all three divine persons, who at the same time operate according to their unique properties, so that all things are from the Father, through the Son and in the Holy Spirit. The three persons are co-equal, co-eternal and consubstantial.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by jmdewey60


The bottom line is, whether or not you believe that Jesus is God, the Bible makes it clear that Jesus will be sitting on the throne of God in Heaven. He was the one that was sent in which everything on earth and in heaven would someday worship Him.

Philippians 2:10-11

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Hebrews 1:6

6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Confessing Jesus Chris as Lord brings glory to God the Father.

reply to post by Deetermined

Here's what "normal Christianity" believes...

That is so-called orthodoxy according to the Catholic Church.
You seem to be ignoring this part,

The Trinity is considered to be a mystery of Christian faith. According to this doctrine, there is only one God in three persons.

if you are supporting Oneness.
The "one God" is a reference to the godhead.
I think that Oneness is a variance from normal Christianity that tries to be reconciled with a supposed theological correctness of the Jew's Bible, and the diminishment of the Christian Bible, as if Christianity was nothing but a false usurper of God's blessing.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by UnaChispa

 

The concept of the trinity wasn't introduced through Christianity, but was adopted by Catholics in 380 AD.

Is this positive proof that the Christian Trinity descended from the ancient Sumerian, Assyrian, and Babylonian triads? No. However, Hislop furthers the comparison, ‘In the unity of that one, Only God of the Babylonians there were three persons, and to symbolize [sic] that doctrine of the Trinity, they employed... the equilateral triangle, just as it is well known the Romish Church does at this day’

Is this positive proof that the Christian Trinity descended from the ancient Egyptian triads? No. However, Durant submits that ‘from Egypt came the ideas of a divine trinity...’ (Caesar 595). Dr. Gordon Laing, retired Dean of the Humanities Department at the University of Chicago, agrees that ‘the worship of the Egyptian triad Isis, Serapis, and the child Horus’ probably accustomed the early church theologians to the idea of a triune God, and was influential ‘in the formulation of the doctrine of the Trinity as set forth in the Nicaean and Athanasian creeds’

Is this positive proof that the Christian Trinity descended from the Etruscan and Roman triads? No. However, Laing convincingly devotes his entire book Survivals of the Roman Gods to the comparison of Roman paganism and the Roman Catholic Church. Dr. Jaroslav Pelikan, a Catholic scholar and professor at Yale, confirms the Church’s respect for pagan ideas when he states that the Apologists and other early church fathers used and cited the [pagan] Roman Sibylline Oracles so much that they were called ‘Sibyllists’ by the 2nd century critic, Celsus. There was even a medieval hymn, ‘Dies irae,’ which foretold the ‘coming of the day of wrath’ based on the ‘dual authority of ‘David and the Sibyl”(Emergence 64-65). The attitude of the Church toward paganism is best summed up in Pope Gregory the Great’s words to a missionary: ‘You must not interfere with any traditional belief or religious observance that can be harmonized with Christianity’

www.heraldmag.org...

The concept of the "trinity" was indeed a man made invention. The word "trinity" is never used in Scripture.

Jesus taught us to pray like this;

"Our FATHER Who is in HEAVEN".

Jesus was on the earth when He said this. Jesus never taught us to pray to Him, EVER. I NEVER pray to Jesus, I only pray to THE FATHER.

Jesus told us He was THE SON OF MAN. He never said He was the Son of God, EVER!

He said that He and THE FATHER were one. It is us who have called Him the Son of GOD. I think we have misquoted Jesus. I think this needs to be analysed further.

Yes, Jesus said "Before Abraham was, I AM". He is saying that He was with His Father before Abraham walked the earth. He said it and I believe everything else He said so I believe that, too.

The Holy Spirit was introduced by Jesus Himself into the world. He told His Disciples that He had to go to Heaven in order that The Holy Spirit could be sent to the earth as The Comforter, that it would be He who would send The Holy Spirit.

This is what Jesus taught us. Why can we not be satisfied with that?

Do any of us have Heavenly authority to fill in the blanks yet? No, we don't.

So I do as Jesus told me;

I pray only to The Father in Heaven, through Jesus' Name (Jesus being The Way to enter The Kingdom).

I never call Jesus The Son of God. Jesus never told us to do that. He said He was "The Son of Man". So I do just that and I call Him The Son of Man. He is The Messiah, that is His name.

We can conjecture that He is The Son of GOD, but we are already straying from The Teachings of Jesus if we do that. Even the Roman centurion at the cross is quoted as saying "Surely this man is a son of GOD", not THE! None of The Disciples called Him The Son of God, EVER. They called Him The Messiah (The Son of Man).

The Trinity is also man's invention. It is OUR attempt to fashion some concept out of Scripture.

There is no mention of the word "trinity" in The Bible.

Yes, there are three personages we can observe. There is The FATHER, The Son of Man and The Holy Spirit. There are also Angels, The Twenty Four Elders and lots more personages in The Kingdom of Heaven.

The term Sons of God is used in Enoch and in Genesis. Who were they describing? In those cases it was the Fallen Watchers, was it not. Enoch calls Jesus The Son of Man also, not the Son of God.

We are making it all up if we add extra bits to the The WORD. We made up the term "Son of God" to describe Jesus. He said He was "The Son of Man". We made up the word "trinity".

Personally I think all this Son of GOD and trinity business is a paganisation of THE WORD. The Catholic Church has been guilty of doing this all along, like with the added concept of Mary, Queen of Heaven. There is no Queen in Heaven. We made that up.

Once we use the term Son of GOD we are losing grasp of what Jesus really was; THE SON OF MAN.

You will not find ANY pagan notion of this term. It reflects entirely the true nature of Jesus as THE REDEEMER. It is revealing to us that Jesus is something NEW. He is the first to be born into The New World that is the ultimate Prophesy of all Scripture; The New Jerusalem described in Revelations and the Resurrection of those born of The Spirit.

reply to post by Revolution9

Jesus told us He was THE SON OF MAN. He never said He was the Son of God, EVER!

John 10:36

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

reply to post by Revolution9

Jesus told us He was THE SON OF MAN. He never said He was the Son of God, EVER!

Apparently he did, at least at some point, whether it is recorded verbatim or not, since you see this statement in John 10,
Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father.
(2011 NIV)
And often elsewhere in the New Testament it states that Jesus is the Son of God, including in the gospels.

He is The Messiah, that is His name.

OK . . Cool, can you quote where Jesus calls himself that, and where he tells us to call him that?
I will be anxiously awaiting your reply, and thank you in advance for what I expect to be a very enlightening teaching.

he term Sons of God is used in Enoch and in Genesis. Who were they describing? In those cases it was the Fallen Watchers, was it not.

Only according to Enoch, which was of course not actually written by Enoch, and is not canonical.

Once we use the term Son of GOD we are losing grasp of what Jesus really was; THE SON OF MAN.

I think that you are just making up your own definition of "son of man" and ignoring how Jesus is using it in the context of the book of Daniel.

reply to post by colbe

No official statement from the Church that I can find.
But a warning about the falsehood of this from an exorcist priest from the area -
** novoereanas basically means 'new age'.
** reproved by the Church means rejected by the Catholic Church
Translated from the original spanish

. But checking their website "Marian revelations" we are back with a language supposedly Catholic, however when reviewing some typical teachings found novoereanas reproved many times by the church, as well as proof that you're not in communion with the true church ...

Also, in an interview published in glotia.tv mentions that Jesus gave the Great Warning in "other worlds" and that "there are other beings in the cosmos" reaffirming his belief in aliens, in their messages repeatedly found the mouth of Virgin or Jesus's alleged statements like "Open Consciousness" or "I bless being" recalcitrant new erísticas phrases.

This woman blend nicely true mystics messages approved by the church with things forbidden by the same, plus novoerenas nonsense. I warn all my readers not to be fooled or fear of such seers and remain faithful to the magisterium of the church. Father Jairo Ricaurte, exorcist of Tunja also warned of the falsity of the Light messages of Mary, and said that the language used in those messages ¨ ¨ is not the language of God. ATTENTION! Eye .... Father Jairo Ricaurte, Tunja exorcist told us yesterday that in Bogotá alone, at this time, there are more than 100 false prophets messages promoting catastrophes, including well-known characters.

** I didn't put that in all caps .... that's the original language translation.

When the discussion is about Jesus presenting Himself as God .. it's best to stick to what is approved ... like Scripture ... or for some people who believe that He appears in places, stick to those alleged apparitions that have been approved by the Catholic church after they do their very detailed investigations. Two thousand years of theology and investigations .. so if they say something isn't from Heaven, it's reasonable to assume that it's not.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Revolution9

 

Jesus told us He was THE SON OF MAN. He never said He was the Son of God, EVER!

John 10:36

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Thank you for that. I stand corrected on that score. I do actually think He is God's Son, but it still does not contradict my observations. I really do think THE SON OF MAN is an important description. Compare how many times that description is used and how many times THE SON OF GOD is used.

That term SON OF GOD is used even for The Fallen Watchers in Genesis. The term SON OF MAN is a unique term to Jesus.

Infact, Jesus did say that He was "I AM" and then in his retort to to his questioners quoted THEM as saying;

"how can you say to the one whom the Father has consecrated and sent into the world, 'You're blaspheming,' because I said, 'I'm the Son of God'? ".

Notice in the quotation marks here Jesus is quoting them as saying He said "I am The Son of God".

Yet everywhere else Jesus refers to Himself as "The Son of Man".

I think I will still continue to call Him The Son of Man because that is mentioned so many times. In fact, I think that is the only time in all The Gospels where The Son of God description is mentioned.

Another account of that is here;

"Then the high priest stood up before them and asked Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?" But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer.
Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ,[Messiah] the Son of the Blessed One?"

"I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven." Mark 14:60-62


Jesus Himself never said those words. In John He is quoting his questioners as saying it. Jesus says "I AM" and "The Son of Man".

Jesus never said to them,

I AM THE SON OF GOD.

If I put quotation marks around that statement there I would not be quoting any Scripture. That is why I do not put quotation marks around that statement. That statement cannot be found anywhere in Scripture.

I am just trying to communicate here the importance of that term Son of Man and invite further analysis of that. I think it is too often overlooked and replaced with The Son Of God statement that they said and not He.

He was very specific and would only reply "I AM".

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Revolution9

 

Jesus told us He was THE SON OF MAN. He never said He was the Son of God, EVER!

Apparently he did, at least at some point, whether it is recorded verbatim or not, since you see this statement in John 10,
Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father.
(2011 NIV)
And often elsewhere in the New Testament it states that Jesus is the Son of God, including in the gospels.

He is The Messiah, that is His name.

OK . . Cool, can you quote where Jesus calls himself that, and where he tells us to call him that?
I will be anxiously awaiting your reply, and thank you in advance for what I expect to be a very enlightening teaching.

he term Sons of God is used in Enoch and in Genesis. Who were they describing? In those cases it was the Fallen Watchers, was it not.

Only according to Enoch, which was of course not actually written by Enoch, and is not canonical.

Once we use the term Son of GOD we are losing grasp of what Jesus really was; THE SON OF MAN.

I think that you are just making up your own definition of "son of man" and ignoring how Jesus is using it in the context of the book of Daniel.

edit on 6-9-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Not only according to Enoch, but Genesis also,

"That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose." Genesis 6:2.

Yes, I am using very much my own interpretation of Scripture. I am analysing the source, not what people say about it.

I am inviting analysis, discussion, criticism and debate because I want to learn more about this "Son of Man" aspect.

I say it again there is nowhere in The Bible I can quote these words as having come from Jesus;

I AM THE SON OF GOD.

It is plainly not there. His questioners said that. He replied "I AM" and again used that third person expression "And you will see The Son of Man". He uses that term about Himself ALL OF THE TIME; Son of Man. He said that, not I. And he said it all of the time. Yet there is not one quote I can find anywhere that He says

I AM THE SON OF GOD.

Why is this? What are your ideas about it? I am just noticing these things. I am not even pretending I have all the answers.

reply to post by Revolution9


This is not about frivolity.

When I read the gospels as a child I noticed this.

I felt very let down when the centurion said "a son of GOD" and not "the".

I also noticed even back them that Jesus never said I AM THE SON OF GOD.

This "Son of Man" phrase has rather haunted me all my life. I noticed that this is how Jesus ALWAYS described Himself.

If Jesus is pointing us to this description I believe it means that we as followers of Him should be taking note of that.

I rest my case on this basis and invite further discussion of that. Not to prove ME right. It is not about me, but about what The Messiah told us.

It is obvious that certain Denominations are preaching "strange gospels". The Catholic Church and many others have added certain rituals and doctrines that are not to be found in Scripture. I am just trying to get to the meaning of the best source we have of what Jesus actually said. The only accounts we have are The Gospels of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John. There are no other authentic sources.