Super Missile Cruiser "Moskva" with Destroyers And Frigates heads for Syria

Great thread so far guys, lots of great links and information shared. After reading thirteen pages, I think Russia is doing the right thing.

Somebody needs to stand up the the playground bully. Now that China is moving a ship in "to observe", I think the intel on this operation is going to be a lot more honest.

In all honesty, I think Obama is in the pockets of the Israelis and Saudis, that the Saudis were responsible for the sarin gas attacks, with the ploy being getting Obama involved without Congressional approval. Now that the polls show 91% of Americans are against this operation, Obama is caught between a rock and a hard place, and can't deliver to the Israelis or Saudis what he promised.

Russia has followed the game, and thus is making it more interesting. All it's going to take is for one missle to fire, and then.......

Yep, right forum.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Very good post, but it does rather ignore the fact that the (rapidly growing) section of the Russian arsenal that does not use former Soviet equipment includes most of the weapons that will come into play should this scenario escalate.

Do you think the Russians are blind to American strategy? If I can download and read documents relating to US policy, so can they. Do you think they (or China) are unaware of the noose the US is attempting to cast around them? Or are you blind to the possibility that it's very, very easy to cut through a noose with even a small knife, especially if that knife has been carefully concealed and sharpened to perfection in preparation for just such a purpose?

A vast proportion of the USA's military might is in fact a white elephant that will only ever be of any real benefit to the corrupt defence contractors that sold it.....The current situation reminds me a little of the French military prior to WWII, a vast military, perfectly equipped to fight the previous war. Didn't turn out too well for them did it?

reply to post by squarehead666


And that's why I said, "they are a threat, but not the threat that they once were or will be again." And do you think the US is blind to the tactical realities of those Russian weapons, and have done nothing to counter them? Yes, they're behind on some of them, but others, they have nice counters to. Just as Russia has counters to some US weapons.

Catacomb

and the wilful ignorance of a large section of your population will "USA! USA! USA!" us all right into WWIII.

edit on 5-9-2013 by squarehead666 because: content/clarity

It's been widely reported by every credible source online, as well as the MSM, that the citizens of the US, are war weary. No one wants this war...and that is reported daily.

They need to speak a bit louder, because the 20% or so who apparently do want war are drowning them out.....At least as far as the US government is concerned.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Actually I do have a pretty fair idea of the current state of countermeasures.....It's not good.

never say never when it comes to war,and never ever underestimate your enemy.

The last thing you want to hear in a war is:

"wow, I didn`t know they had ..."

or

"wow, I didn`t know that ( missile,tank, plane whatever) could do that"

Usually the side with a smaller force or inferior weapons will use tactics, that makes the best use of their inferior weapons or size, to even the odds.

I remember when conventional wisdom said that japan could never sail half way across the pacific and launch an attack without being detected.

reply to post by squarehead666


It's better than has been portrayed. I have a pretty good idea of them too, and the Burkes in the Med won't be blown out of the water instantly. They'll go down hard if at all.

reply to post by Tardacus


It's quite amazing how upset major world powers can get when one of their NAVAL BASES gets attacked isn't it?

Regardless of what missile systems the Russians may have sold to Syria, you can bet that facility is just bristling with the very best that they've got.....And the Septics want to throw cruise missiles in its general direction?

WWIII anyone?

Zaphod58
reply to post by squarehead666

 

It's better than has been portrayed. I have a pretty good idea of them too, and the Burkes in the Med won't be blown out of the water instantly. They'll go down hard if at all.

The AEGIS ships might, at best soak up the contents of one rotary launcher each (of the two in the belly of each TU-160) before being crippled.....And they cost the US taxpayer quite a lot more than half a dozen Sunburns cost the Russians (and they contain a lot more souls)!

Do the math dude

reply to post by squarehead666


It's two floating piers that they can't even dock a large ship at, and if both piers are working, they can dock four ships at them.

reply to post by Zaphod58


It's also their sole access to the Med.....Don't be naïve.

By the way.....Are there any shipping containers on the dockside, because if there are.....

reply to post by squarehead666


And they have (according to some reports) been in talks with other areas about basing rights in other countries as well.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Dude....How would the US react if, in response to the numerous well documented human rights abuses, Russia fired a salvo of cruise missiles at Bahrain?

Stop being naïve.....This is a deadly serious scenario. Russia is not going to allow Syria to be trampled on the basis of vague promises of alternative access to the Med.

And believe me the countermeasures situation is dire, I've got a declassified report saved as a .pdf detailing it somewhere.....This one deals with the Chinese missile capabilities, not the Russian.

Russian kit is an order of magnitude more sophisticated.

reply to post by squarehead666


I know just how serious this is. But Russia also isn't going to start WWIII over Syria.

I also know the current status of countermeasures, and in the last few years they have improved a good bit. And are getting better. They still have problems with the higher Mach number missiles, but even up to Mach 2.5, and soon the Mach 3 missiles they have a counter to that works well. It's not perfect, but it's over 80%, and approaching 90% effective, with a new upgrade coming soon that will make it more effective.

There are some missiles that there just is no counter to, other than distance, and hiding out in the open ocean. It's amazing how small a group of ships can make itself when it wants to (especially a Burke that already has the radar signature of a fishing boat).

Have you actually read any of the reports from the 1980s and seen how close we came during those days? We actually launched alert aircraft on a valid launch around 1983. The launch codes were sent. Russia ordered a strike, and sent the launch codes to one of their missile commanders over a missile test. We've been a lot closer than this in the past, and we're still here. We'll still be here after this is over.

squarehead666
Regardless of what missile systems the Russians may have sold to Syria, you can bet that facility is just bristling with the very best that they've got.....

You must be joking.... how large do you think the Russian "Naval base" actually is?

Video reporting by Russian TV in late June 2012 provided a tour of the Russian Navy's modest foothold in Tartus. The officer-in-charge conducting the tour said that only four personnel now man the facility and that one of its two floating piers was inoperative because a storm had severely damaged its moorings. The shore facilities comprise a barracks, office space, two medium sized corrugated metal storage buildings and a covered parking shed for about 5-6 service vehicles. A brief tour of the naval repair vessel then in port and tied to the sole operational pier also showed that it was minimally manned — about 10-12 personnel, including the master and chief engineer. There was no mention of potential repairs or facility expansion.[17]

en.wikipedia.org...

Zaphod58
reply to post by squarehead666

 

I know just how serious this is. But Russia also isn't going to start WWIII over Syria.

No America is.....If they open up on Syria, it's an act of war, regardless of what Barry O'Puppet might like to call it.

Once the first shots are fired, all the plans go to hell in a hand-basket as you will well know if you are a military man.....This isn't playing with fire, it's tap-dancing in a minefield!

reply to post by johncarter


I would think this could be the only thing that could deter a US strike on Syria!
And God help us all if this is not enough!
Only fools rush in where angels fear to tread!

reply to post by hellobruce


This is going to sound off topic, but have you ever heard of the KV-1 tank?

On one hand our politicians are saying Syria is great threat to US interest. I know our politicians wants to instill fear among citizens. But incase you believe that lie, Syria is formidable enemy. If it was a cakewalk like Egypt, Libya, we should have finished Syria already. So the reason they are even try to get Congress approval tells something. They have no support from international community (even Britain said no), and majority of US population says no too.

So if you believe the lie - Syria is no cakewalk and that we are all screwed if we don't attack Syria. If Syria is such a great threat, shouldn't Russia, China, Iran etc be a greater threat?

reply to post by squarehead666


This is not going to see WWIII started. It's not an act of war against Russia. Just as if Russia attacked Bahrain, it wouldn't be an act of war against the US. I've gone through a lot worse than this will ever be, and I'm still here kicking, and so are the rest of us. Yes, this may get ugly, and it's serious, but Russia and the US don't want a fight with each other.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Shooting Franz Ferdinand was not an act of war with Germany.

Invading Poland was not an act of war with the USA.

The USA may not want to fight Russia, they'd much prefer to strangle them to death in their sleep (China too), but it ain't gonna happen, Russia is wide awake to the fact that they are being backed into a corner, and believe if push comes to shove they'll fight.

Russia is not the one doing the pushing and shoving at the moment.....The world has had enough of American lies and bullying, that's why their allies have abandoned them en masse.

A line has indeed been drawn here.....Apparently Obama fully intends to cross it.

reply to post by squarehead666


Jesus I knew coming back into this thread was a mistake. Once again, screw it, you guys are right. We're all gonna die! It's WWIII!


Better? I'm done with this. You guys just want to be able to scream about how we're all screwed, and it's the end of the world. Have fun with that.