what would make you give a damn about the ME

I was thinking last night as I got ready for bed about something.
I am completely against the US going into Syria. I don't care if several hundred chemical weapons attacks are carried out and many more people die. I do care about them just not more than my own people so as to wish to see them lose their lives in a slaughter.

Then I was thinking about how all these conflicts in the ME in former black market destinations points for illegal arms sales are all to blame themselves in a way. They did buy illegal weapons for decades. Its not that I don't see the fault of the nations like the US, France,Germany, and the UK who sold these weapons through the black market, no. I know our portion of blame. Still though, the leaders and powerful of the ME willingly dealt with, and made relationships with.....criminals. They went out of their way for many generations to arm themselves and cement relationships with evil men.

From where I stand, they have themselves to blame as well for that happens in the ME. That foreigners could come in and use the already cultivated hate between ME peoples so as to sell weapons to all sides says allot.

If you do drugs and you have to know and be around shady people....one day something bad could happen.
I am not going to care what happens to you at some level. You asked for it.

Then I was thinking about what would make me give a damn about the middle east and its problems with its former arms dealers,(west) and it hit me.

A nuke. If a nuke went off in the middle east, the world would be forced to accept what ever resolution the UN is pressured into making. We would care.

I think a Nuke will go off in the ME. Its the only logical way to galvanize the worlds population into a forced and immediate disarmament of the middle East. Maybe they sell them weapons again....maybe they force the world to disarm.

The tensions in the ME are a perfect story for how a nuke goes off and why.

The response the world has can be geared according to the tone and direction of the story.


So ATS, what's your "give a dam" suddenly" reason for the ME. Mine is a nuke going off. You?

Zombies.
They gotta start somewhere.

Russia has openly stated it will have a zombie weapon, which leads to the question of how you could make a group of people behave in a manner similar to zombies.

The obvious answer is pharmaceuticals, a combination of drugs that render the targeted individuals mindless (amnesiac), crazed (Hallucinogen) and hyper aggressive (Amphetamine). As the world pushes towards the proliferation of drugs as weapons in the use of riot control and tempering the will of the people it only stands to reason that each of these nations would work towards perfecting the creation and dispersal of such a powerful drug.

Enter Syria, a nation with known chemical weapon production facilities. A nation with strong alliances with Russia, China and Iran all of which have great access to the information, technology and components for such experimental work. When you consider that both the UK and the US have also supplied Syria with components for years and that until very recently Syria was a major source of black market pharmaceuticals then they become one of the only rogue nations with the capability to create these kinds of weapons and the freedom to do so openly, with little government regulation and no rules against human testing.

So yea, Zombies.

If the public were to find out that peak oil production came and went ten years ago and that the world's governments are aware and pretty shaken up about it.

Wait a minute, that has already happened. This is being done out of desperation and necessity in my opinion.

The conflicts in the Middle East are largely due to secure resources for future generations. It will be catastrophic for whomever gets left out of the resource grab.. Scary stuff.

We have our own problems.

I really have to force myself to feign caring.

This is a problem with no solution. *See Israel.

reply to post by tadaman


Thought on this for 20 minutes. There are things that will never happen, so I'll never care. For me to care I would need that whole region to learn how to care more for human rights than their insane religions. I would need to see the people of every nation demand a secular government. I would need to see Muslims going after Islamic terrorists and killing them hard and fast. I would need to see women having all the rights of men. I would need to see fathers loving their daughters just as much as their sons.

These things haven't occurred in 12,000 years. It's surely not going to happen now or ever.

When would I care about the ME? When a ME country attacks the US. And just add a REAL attack, not some terrorist attack like say flying planes into some sky scrapers in New York that is loosely attributed to some terrorists from the ME like say Saudia Arabia to justify attacking a completely different country like say Iraq

Originally posted by Krazysh0t
When would I care about the ME? When a ME country attacks the US.

Yeah .. that. Otherwise, I really don't care if they kill each other off.
It's all about pipelines and religion. And I simply don't care.

I've always cared because of my own frame of refernece and values. When younger especially. Stories of what Saddam Hussein did to his own people as an example were appauling. I actually could not fathom a world where people lived in fear and had no rights. Ive grown up and have learned that although under a dictatorship these things can more easily happen it is all they know (burkas, not allowed on streets after 8, etc).

Our own ancestors overcame this power issue just a couple hundred years ago. Now we want everyone else to have what we have. Seems natural but there is a process to it - let the people do their own fighting. With the weapons available today however, this becomes more problematic. Unfortunately I dont feel our government cares as much about children dying as they do with securing control/influence in the area. They started helping the oposition months ago so this is just an excuse.

I personally care - but I also think its up to those superpowers of the region to confront this. Not us. I still care for the same reasons - people and suffering. But I feel far differently about our place in it. It makes it worse.

In response to oil - we have enough right here in the US. In response to Zombies - I think I just saw a couple. Too late for that one.

The only solution to the ME is this..................

Withdraw all non ME boots to a neutral/go home zone!
Throw a bone into the ring and wait..........

Sooner or later they'll get tired of fighting, and look for peace on their own terms.

Well that's what would happen if there was no oil there and Americans didn't think the Jews were their salvation
to God.
Honestly you couldn't make it up.

Agreeing with Jigger, I too would care if the outdated religious hardliners would understand their actions. The many branches of islam all looking to kill those who not follow their every word, even amoung their own basic principles. #e, sunni, baath, etc. I would start to care when these people wake up and see that the non muslums are not their enemy, and the world has gone way past the mindset of this theology and will progress much more by equality, and dialog to a level of compassion for our fellow earthlings. We are all here on this rock and spending many generations of life on killing and taking over in the name of someone in a book is just plain stupid and twisted. Learn to talk, listen, and not kill your daughter for no reason is a first step to give a rats rear.

Most of the current sentiment by the American population is similar to that expressed during the rise of Nazi Germany and their slow conquest of Europe. So the real question is do we need a Pearl Harbor to get involved in Syria like we did to get involved in World War 2?

Originally posted by Thorneblood
Most of the current sentiment by the American population is similar to that expressed during the rise of Nazi Germany and their slow conquest of Europe. So the real question is do we need a Pearl Harbor to get involved in Syria like we did to get involved in World War 2?

We had one on 9/11.

This is a "Civil War". Otherwise you make a good point.

Originally posted by Thorneblood
Most of the current sentiment by the American population is similar to that expressed during the rise of Nazi Germany and their slow conquest of Europe. So the real question is do we need a Pearl Harbor to get involved in Syria like we did to get involved in World War 2?

No it's not similar. Unless you meant America is similar to Nazi Germany, in that the US regime wants to attack yet another sovereign country.

reply to post by guymontag


let me correct one part of that. If he meant that Europe and the US are like Nazi germany....trying to invade another sovereign nation they all armed to the teeth through illegal arms sales over many decades ......

Umm no. The American public continued to oppose involvement in World War 2 until the bombing of Pearl Harbor, which was several years after the war began and most of Europe had been attacked or captured by the NAZI's.

So do we need a major attack on a US base/target in order to galvanize us to respond to this situation?

Let us not forget, 9/11 is in about a week and it is at this time that Congress is supposed to convene and make their decision on Syria.

All the noise that came out of Yemen/ME about an attack earlier in the month was said to have been put on hold because of our awareness of it. We have been warned repeatedly that a terrorist attack is coming, we have been warned that we will face a massive cyber attack as well.

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by tadaman

 

Thought on this for 20 minutes. There are things that will never happen, so I'll never care. For me to care I would need that whole region to learn how to care more for human rights than their insane religions. I would need to see the people of every nation demand a secular government. I would need to see Muslims going after Islamic terrorists and killing them hard and fast. I would need to see women having all the rights of men. I would need to see fathers loving their daughters just as much as their sons.

These things haven't occurred in 12,000 years. It's surely not going to happen now or ever.

I think your generalising a huge population of people into stereotypes wrongfully. I live in Algeria, I am a Canadian in a muslim country. I see the general population afraid of terrorists but I also see the military and police avidly fighting them for 20 years now! Secular also exists, so does women's rights though your right there is always need for improvement, but then your one to call the kettle black, when your constitutional rights are going down the drain and now with so many rights you almost don't know whats right or wrong anymore in a lot of families and societal practices. There is nothing wrong with religion, I agree it should be separate, and lots of countries need improvement, as does the US. We are all people at the end of the day, same blood, same God even and maybe you shouldn't be so quick to glob 1.3 billion people into the same boat.

Oh and to answer the question why give a damn, well I live here, and I'm sure there are many Americans with family in the ME too.

I think your generalising a huge population of people into stereotypes wrongfully. I live in Algeria, I am a Canadian in a muslim country. I see the general population afraid of terrorists but I also see the military and police avidly fighting them for 20 years now! Secular also exists, so does women's rights though your right there is always need for improvement, but then your one to call the kettle black, when your constitutional rights are going down the drain and now with so many rights you almost don't know whats right or wrong anymore in a lot of families and societal practices. There is nothing wrong with religion, I agree it should be separate, and lots of countries need improvement, as does the US. We are all people at the end of the day, same blood, same God even and maybe you shouldn't be so quick to glob 1.3 billion people into the same boat.

reply to post by CottonwoodStormy


Focus, Cotton. The question before us is about the ME. You want to ask a similar question on the U.S. and I will gladly voice my concerns on that particular topic.

I am not generalizing. I can only respond to how the Middle East represents itself throughout the world. Of course there are good people there. But, the goodness of any society is only as good as its most heinous evil. What I hear you saying is something like this: A mother defends the idea that her family is a good family while her son is a serial killer, her young daughter a drug addict, and her older daughter a whore. But, the MOTHER and her newborn baby are good.

is this a 'trick' question ??
hmmm, my heart, my head and my hummanity, mostly ... but the simple fact that we are all being attacked from every angle, daily, pretty much puts us all in the same damn boat.

so, at this point, i'm just hoping that someone will operate the other oar and stop us from circling right down the drain