Will you open your Mind and your Heart?

Originally posted by greavsie1971

Yet you are pushing your belief here. I believe in god, I appreciate you believe God does not exist. I accept that is your choice and I have no issue with that at all. I am a good person yet you imply because I believe in God I am one of the people who discriminate.

This is exactly my point.

Do you think Im a bad person because I believe in God?

I believe (100%) that you are a good person that doesn't understand this:

If you buy illegal drugs then you are supporting the drug trade; the very drug trade that is killing kids. Pimps use drugs to get young girls hooked and then force them into prostitution in order to get more drugs. If no one buys illegal drugs, then our kids won't have access to them. Can you see the logic in this?

If you can see the logic, then you can't deny this:

When you buy into a religion you are supporting all religions; the very religions that are used as an excuse to slam planes into buildings, oppress women (and whole nations), you are supporting the Vatican when it tells people it is a sin to use condoms as a protection against AIDS and overpopulation of the poverty stricken. If no one buys into gods and religions, then our kids won't grow up thinking it's okay to cut off people's heads or to blame women for being raped. They won't be brainwashed into thinking that a god miraculously saved them from a car accident while allowing millions of children to starve to death or die from cancer.

reply to post by shell69

Well Dude, if we were speaking of monsters under our beds, I'd agree... but we're not

You are right, Shell. We aren't talking about monsters with claws and fangs. Even though there are creatures with claws and fangs, the idea of monsters is absurd.

We are talking about grown men and women believing in an:

1. ALLLL-knowing
2. ALLLL-powerful
3. Invisible being who is everywhere
4. who created the WHOLE universe
5. who lives in another dimension called heavennnnn
6. who is perfect in every way
7. who was never born and will never die.

The fact that NONE of these traits can be found anywhere on the entire planet makes this belief even MORE absurd than monsters.

How exactly do you prove someone wrong about what they believe in, anyway???

reply to post by shell69


By facts. I once believed that the moon orbited the earth once a day. Thankfully someone proved me to be wrong and that the moon orbits the earth once every 28 days.

reply to post by shell69

What does matter however, in my honest opinion is that we can respect EACH OTHER'S beliefs without VIOLENCE or STRIFE or WAR...

Very good! So, what should we do when the beliefs of others DO cause and DO support VIOLENCE or STRIFE or WAR...?

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by shell69

 

What does matter however, in my honest opinion is that we can respect EACH OTHER'S beliefs without VIOLENCE or STRIFE or WAR...

Very good! So, what should we do when the beliefs of others DO cause and DO support VIOLENCE or STRIFE or WAR...?

God and war
Religious wars
Islam and War
Buddhist monks attacking Muslims

reply to post by jiggerj


What exactly are you asking of me???
I cannot by any means within this thread CAUSE, or PREVENT....WORLD PEACE, or WWIII

I think it's obvious what the point of this thread is, and for the most part it has been absolutely peaceful and enjoyable... I think that ANY type of argument on this thread, is a total derailment of the actual thread itself.

The very links that you posted are a GREAT EXAMPLE of why I started this thread.
I just wanted as many people as I could affect, to THINK about how we all believe in something or nothing, why we all believe differently, and how to accept that and accept each other then MOVE ON and LIVE LIFE!!!

I never intended on stirring up any type of malice between anyone!!!! Let me make that clear, because I feel like there has been some type of misunderstanding between you and this thread. I apologize if you don't get it but this thread is to point out the PROBLEM and your links help to do that, but after the problem is defined, it is also to point out why this is absurd.

I cannot however make every EXTREMIST from every religion, and every country in this world read my thread and magically "Get it"... You have NO IDEA how I wish each day that I could, if it were possible I would be saving countless young innocent children from either FEAR, PAIN, or DEATH over something they should never be involved in or punished for.

reply to post by shell69

I think it's obvious what the point of this thread is, and for the most part it has been absolutely peaceful and enjoyable... I think that ANY type of argument on this thread, is a total derailment of the actual thread itself.

Do you honestly think I am arguing instead of discussing? I'm sitting here with a coffee. My legs are up on my bed, and I am thoroughly enjoying this discussion. I'm not threatening you in any way. You are the one being defensive because someone casually disagrees with you. I have not swerved one inch from the topic. If I have gone off topic, feel free to alert the mods and they will delete my replies. I am having a good Sunday morning and I hope you are too.

What exactly are you asking of me??? I cannot by any means within this thread CAUSE, or PREVENT....WORLD PEACE, or WWIII

reply to post by shell69


I am asking YOU to open your mind and your heart to see what the belief in a god is doing to our world.

You think you are not doing any harm, but when you either support the idea of a god, OR support the idea that everyone should allow everyone to follow their own beliefs, then you are saying we should allow people to commit crimes in the name of a god that doesn't even exist.

How many people have to die of AIDS because the Catholic church frowns on condoms; how many Muslim women have to be imprisoned and stoned to death for being raped before you scream at the top of your lungs, "NO MORE! YOU PEOPLE CANNOT BELIEVE IN THESE THINGS! YOU CANNOT WORSHIP A GOD THAT CONDONES THESE THINGS!!!!"

We simply cannot allow everyone to believe and practice anything and everything they want.

I never intended on stirring up any type of malice between anyone!!!!

reply to post by shell69


I have no malice in my heart at all. You are offering your opinion, I am offering mine. I'm sorry if you are threatened by my opinions.

Originally posted by shell69
reply to post by jiggerj

 

What exactly are you asking of me???

I am asking you to answer this:

What should we do when the beliefs of others DO cause and DO support VIOLENCE or STRIFE or WAR...?

Op, being a WHY person myself I can understand your questioning.

WHY? You ask?

I am spiritual, yet hold on to no particular religion. I love who I love. Others feel nothing in a spiritual sense or they simply deny that part of themselves. Time tells all though and when we take our last breath, all will be revealed.

I believe people we encounter here on Earth are experiencing soul growth different from ours. Each is an experience all on it's own. We are being raised in the wilderness and it's pitch black out here. We hear different sounds and see through the darkness different images, however we know not other than what we are experiencing inside the body, which is from our own spirit from afar.

We either have encoded in our very being the willingness to feel spiritually or we don't. For the ones who don't, their soul growth is not about spirituality. That is how I have answered the WHY anyway.

reply to post by jiggerj

I am asking YOU to open your mind and your heart to see what the belief in a god is doing to our world.

The problem here above is you are putting a God and or Creator with religion. They are different in all aspects.

Each person on this Earth has a separate and more personal philosophy of life, even if they don't admit such. It's a personal relationship.

Religion is the opposite of God in my opinion so when people here on ATS bring God into religion it confuses me because per my philosophy God is the opposite.

Blame religion all ya want, but blaming the one who gives you life is another story.

Originally posted by MamaJ

Each person on this Earth has a separate and more personal philosophy of life, even if they don't admit such. It's a personal relationship.

Religion is the opposite of God in my opinion so when people here on ATS bring God into religion it confuses me because per my philosophy God is the opposite.

Blame religion all ya want, but blaming the one who gives you life is another story.

You set yourself apart from the common beliefs held by the many. It would be wonderful if everyone did this, because we would all be too weak to cause trouble in the name of a god. Unfortunately, this is not the case. Too many believe in the same thing, and gather enough power to create such havoc throughout the world.

You even cripple my ability to argue, dispute, or even simply converse on your beliefs because I can't possibly know what you/he/she as separate individuals believe in with your totally separate beliefs.

Yeah, I could handle it if everyone were like you.

reply to post by jiggerj

When you buy into a religion you are supporting all religions...

Those who buy into atheism are JUST as deceived if not more than anyone who falls for religious lies.

Atheism and religion are BOTH part of the SAME agenda.

Both are nothing more than stealth mind control tools.

The absolute IRONY of fundamental atheists who label believers as "religious" is beyond incredible.

EVERYONE is Religious...

Everyone worships SOMETHING.

Whether its self, humanity, human intellect, materialism, pleasure, science, evolution, etc.

Dylan was right: you "Gotta Serve Somebody".

Atheists and non-atheists alike BOTH make the same mistake of thinking you must believe in a deity in order to worship one.

By promoting false philosophies you are serving Satan's agenda which blinds people to the truth.

Atheism is an idiot's belief as much as any other religion is.

Why? Because it's a belief.

It's based on NOTHING factual.

It's simply another Illuminati mind control tool with the same hidden agenda.

Atheists on ATS are just as fanatical as the religious people they condemn for being fanatical.

Therefore, it all comes down to faith.

Atheism is a religion whether the atheists want to admit it or not.

In the end, we're all the same.

We just have faith in different beliefs.

After everything is said and done, after the fat lady gets done singing, only ONE of us can be right.

The bottom line: are you willing to lose EVERYTHING and risk your entire destiny on a lie?

mind is a closed system, it does not open. only identities itself with more and more limitations

Everyone worships SOMETHING. Whether its self (REAL), humanity (REAL), human intellect (REAL), materialism (REAL), pleasure (REAL), science (REAL), evolution (REAL), etc.

reply to post by Murgatroid


Sooo, you agree.

reply to post by jiggerj

My legs are up on my bed, and I am thoroughly enjoying this discussion.

maybe try getting out of bed on the other side?

reply to post by shell69


My 2 cents..

Believing in something is not a bad thing. Belief can indeed move mountains and belief has brought alot of good things into the hearts and minds of people.
The bad thing happens when it becomes too organised and people attempt to force their beliefs on others, no matter what those beliefs are. It leads to disconnection from one another and even in worst cases war and killings.

I have always stood my ground in my beliefs. I do not believe in God, Allah or Buddhas teachings for that matter. I have studied them however and taken alot of good points with me from them. Love thy neighbour is a good example, aswell as being in the present without too much worry of what happens tomorrow or whatever happened yesterday.

I do however believe in some form of higher power, I can not imagine that the whole universe just happened by accident. But that is as far as I can go. What this higher power is, where it is or how it is, I simply do not know. But I am sure that there is a reason for me being here aswell as for you creating this topic and me replying.

I think that we are all simply unable to wrap our heads around how all of this came to be and that is okay. I hope that I will know once I am no longer part of this world.

One thing that I am 100% sure of, is that not one single religion has gotten it right yet. But most religions do have a few teachings worthy of listening to. Just dont be extreme about it. Critical thought and thinking for yourself is just as important as belief.

reply to post by jiggerj


Those who are unable to consider an opposite opinion or lifestyle are the very same people who have a ZERO tolerance for any other beliefs, other than their own! In my opinion, this is a dangerous mindset and as far as I am concerned the very ROOT of all EVIL & DISCOURSE in our world today!

The fact that you feel the need to ridicule, or mock or deflate someone's beliefs or belief system is the very heart and soul and POINT of this thread in it's entirety. You have come here and repeatedly brought up how "absurd" the belief in a God was. Why? Why do you feel the need to do so?? It is as if you are completely UNABLE to consider an opposite opinion or lifestyle and have a ZERO tolerance for other's beliefs.

Obviously there are many other beliefs and belief systems other than what Christians and Muslims believe in, yet you seem to have a particular problem with these?

You bring up violence and hatred, and stonings, so I conclude that it is the current wars and world issues that cause you to have so much frustration with "religions". I AGREE!!!! I don't know how to argue with you, because I AGREE with you. It is actually what I am saying repeatedly in this thread, I do not believe in religion and I certainly do not believe In it being FORCED or ENFORCED on anyone.

I believe in God, and I believe that you should have the right to believe in whatever you choose, without ridicule or malice from others... yet you come to this thread and call my belief in God absurd. There are wars right now and Violence right now, in my opinion, because there are people who believe a different way than I do. There are people in our world today that will not stop until the WORLD believes as they do. There are Religions that will not TOLERATE any other beliefs other than theirs and my point in this thread was to point out how that is bringing DEATH to our world right now. My point was to shed a light on how a ZERO tolerance for other's beliefs is causing turmoil and much more in our world today, and more open Minds and Hearts would bring MORE PEACE to this world.

The only thing greater than me is the earth itself. That's what I believe. I'm open to alternative theories, but based on the life I've lived, I doubt that I'll be changing my belief system anytime soon.

I'm not closed minded. I'm experienced and learned.