What is "Magic"?

reply to post by Phage


Arthur C. Clark was a smart man. I was not aware this was one of his quotes. Thank you, Phage.


reply to post by micpsi

Lack of empirical distinguishability does not imply that magic is merely sufficiently advanced technology.

I'm sorry, I do agree here. What about advanced science? Not the same thing in my book. Clark said "advanced technology", not me.

This non sequitur may be what proponents of scientism would like to believe, and it is superficially attractive for their general purpose of always denying all non-physical causes of phenomena.

True, one of the reasons certain forums on this site exist.

But it still begs the question posed by the OP instead of answering it. Technology involves natural causes and their effects. It's what scientists study. Magic, on the other hand, by definition requires the temporary suspension of objective causation according to the laws of nature through the intervention, aided by the imagination and ritual, of the human will, which can act unrestricted by the laws of physics.

I suppose definition has a lot to do with the disagreements here. And of what environments/realities does that definition heed to?

If I were to shut my eyes, and enter a stage-4 REM sleep pattern, find myself immersed in a dream world of which I find I can maintain lucidity, and perform "magic" feats (creating anything from nothing, teleportation, etc), what defines that? Maybe that's different.

It is not even adequate to fantasize that magic is merely future science. That's still an intellectual cop-out, for it implicity assumes that the human mind cannot act at a distance on matter, so that true magic cannot exist.

Don't agree. Implicitly assumes maybe, yet- what about believers of quantum mind or quantum consciousness? Quantum physics is science, no?

The quantum mind or quantum consciousness hypothesis proposes that classical mechanics CANNOT EXPLAIN consciousness, while quantum mechanical phenomena, such as quantum entanglement and superposition, may play an important part in the brain's function, and could form the basis of an explanation of consciousness.

Quantum Mind WIKI

I'm no physics major, so it's a bit hard to keep up- however, some of the scientists who have contributed seem to believe that mind over matter may be possible to prove someday with science.

Quantum physics has proven that all matter at the subatomic level exists in wave form, and that matter only appears solid when we, as the observer, use our senses to decode and perceive the wave patterns in space and time. Significantly, thoughts, especially concentrated thoughts, also form measurable wave patterns. And thought waves have proven to affect observable matter in the physical world.

Activist Post

This ^ may be garbage, I cannot find anything to back it up. Quantum physics experts?

But, any honest attempt to answer the question: what is magic? cannot dismiss it by falling back on this assumption as though it is were an unquestionable article of religious faith. Some of us have moved beyond dogmatic science.

Agreed. Yet- I will say, it's hard to explain something, that we haven't explained YET... should we ever. It doesn't mean magic is not future science.

Thank you for your contribution, micspi. Your vocabulary is better than mine.

Magic is the idea of a non-existent power to change real things outside your own body with will alone.

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
Magic is the idea of a non-existent power to change real things outside your own body with will alone.

edit on 1-9-2013 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)

I believe I agree- although I'm on the fence with non-existent. If it exists, it may someday be proven with "quantum ". Science.

Originally posted by AsarAlubat
I'd say science yet to be explained.

-AA

In my opinion (and keep in mind, I'm a practitioner. Though of my own unique style) Magic is the art of bending reality to ones willpower.

Now, long ago, when everyone believed, and magic was an everyday occurance, it was much easier, and more was possible.

Now, few believe; so all practitioners have to pit their personal willpower against the collective willpower of all unbelievers worldwide.

This is why we have legends of mages, sorcerers, and wizards capable of calling down lightning, and toss fireballs but can't do it now. At least in my opinion.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

I think cartman knows what magic is

Nice replies.

If there are any practitioners here, could you please share your techniques and secrets as to how you believe that magic works, and why do so many people spell it with a k as in majick, I guess that's to distinguish it from slight of hand tricks which of course are not real magic at all.

Tomorrow I'll finish the story about my most recent experience with magic.

Thanks for reading and for your participation. I'm also curious is there's any type of experiment that we could perform together, any ideas?

Best wishes,

NAM

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Altight new age man. Would love your word on the subject. I feel extremely left out...

New Age Guy, I am a practitioner. I started with Wicca; however I have advanced my own style. A lot of ppl use spells, and rituals; these are to focus not only yourself, but the energies you are working with as well.

Now I strictly use visualizations; as I don't require the focusing aspect of spells and rituals. Also, due to the collective push of nonbelievers, there is no flash bang to magic.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I'm with Crowley and the Thelemites on this one. Paraphrased, Crowley stated that magick:

is the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will. Every intentional act is a magickal act.

~ Wandering Scribe

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by Phage

 

The difference being, of course, there is no such thing as magic.

Magick is only non-existent in your narrow minded view or understanding of magic.

edit on 1-9-2013 by VeritasAequitas because: (no reason given)

Amen. Need some light?

Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

I'm with Crowley and the Thelemites on this one. Paraphrased, Crowley stated that magick:

is the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will. Every intentional act is a magickal act.

~ Wandering Scribe

Amen.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


watching a flower bud unfold to reveal a beautiful flower, could be deemed magic or magical. which is just a descriptive word to say its wonderous....... of course we know it is really just a natural occurance... there is no such thing as the existence of "Magic" it is merly an explative....... magic could be equalled to trick, con, illusion, but magic itself is typically human make believe. humans are good at that sort of thing. making up completely non existent fantasies........... haha the foolish human.......

Magic is an old name. Mostly occultists use it because their books are old. Black magic is also real.

White and black magic are very unlike, as one takes energy from vice and sets an hierarchy of minions, all with the same mindset of material want. The other channels energy from the source. It is not subject to the mind and the power of creation is an act of creation. It is all the same, wherever it comes from.

The best magic is a simple phrase that is accepted, clothed and supported by all. There are all kind of magicians on ATS. The obsession with the elite resonates with black magic and not a few members have succumb to fear. Hatred of religion is the same.

Science is irrelevant to magic. It is 1000's of times older and far deeper. In comparison to magic science is a bunch of loosely connected material consistencies, current to very limited apparatus, with almost no esoteric knowledge (except all the genius').

Magic is about creation and nothing less. There are brands of magic and levels. If it going on all around you, and you don't know, don't worry. You're supposed to 'get it' on your own and we call that evolution.

It's all hidden in plain sight. What I see is what I'm not too biased to miss. You too. What is really there is a inter-connected, related mass whirlpool of consciousness and creation, separated only by space and time.

Magic is the point at the end of every science failure - that point in every theories life where it becomes redundant. Well, that impossible leap from which the facts had no predictability anymore, is where creation left off. In the end, science seeks to quantify magic, and like a mind trick attempts to fool itself that it is relevant beyond a concept - beyond that which it life.

We give science life, as we give words life and so on. That is a matter of creation, if only a feature of our perspective.

None of this new information of course, however to read about it (if it is good information for you), is to read nothing that your ego wants to read and there aren't so many people who can do that. On the plus side, if you chose to forgo your ego in the face of your own power, you are in good company.

To reach the highest pinnacle in magic is to be fully present to the moment, now. To understand that aside from 'now' past and present are not defined.

reply to post by bowtomonkey


Exactly magic is the ultimately everything. Magic that comes from conscious awareness...is the manipulation of light color sound and the way words are presented. To become a magician one must have an objective and figure out what one needs to to obtain the end goal. It can be used for seduction lust love entrap ensnare enslave and control. It is a game played out on the grandest scale a human mind can think of. There are puppet masters about monkey. And we are all being played. Being guided silently into ascension. By a group of people passing down a consciousness spanning 30000 known years. What was the earliest known name of this group of men...

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
Magick is the art of inducing change in conformity with the will. This can be interpreted and used in a number of different ways.

Thank you, and I was starting to think I was going to have to type it out.

Veritas said it best.

Reality exist in the mind.

Try applying that thought to your practice and ask yourself what are you really doing?

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
Magic is the idea of a non-existent power to change real things outside your own body with will alone

I think that's a bit superstitious, I don't know any magick practitioners who think that.

1. It can change anything, whether tangible or not, whether outside your body or not.

2. Will 'alone' implies that will cannot bring in anything from other individuals to synchronicity to answer its call. This is incorrect, as these elements in fact -- synchronicity and other individuals -- are two of the most primary things one can affect through intent.

3. Physical mass is vibrating energy, which is information. All of reality is an idea.

Originally posted by RedCairo

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
Magic is the idea of a non-existent power to change real things outside your own body with will alone

I think that's a bit superstitious, I don't know any magick practitioners who think that.

I didnt mention 'magick' and this thred isnt about 'magick'.

reply to post by bowtomonkey

Originally posted by bowtomonkey

To reach the highest pinnacle in magic is to be fully present to the moment, now. To understand that aside from 'now' past and present are not defined.

Nice post, very informative and helpful to the question posed in the OP, and all the replies so far are great.

Past, present AND future.. Magic is creativity then, but understood in terms of an acausal connecting principal whereby the intention, precedes the creative action and defines it and inspires it (where context and framing is everything), like a first-cause in creative manifestation where the "Magus" always begins with the end, and the desired outcome, in mind, as did the creation itself begin with us in mind included from a first last cause and thus an intentionality even by anticipation from a first cause. Thus to practice magic is to become a co-creative, participatory causal agent of change, but since evil is a house divided sure to eventually fall, the only real magic is good or white magic, so it's by an enlightened mutual best interest that real magic is performed, and not a purely selfish one for selfish gain alone whereby when the self gains another loses somewhere. Black magic then is win/lose and white win/win/WIN. It is therefore infinitely more powerful, and influencial and thus may freely access the power to overcome all dark magic, rendering it powerless, even the brunt of humor and ridicule and at best the very foil by which white magic is revealed and made manifest, like a rational fulcrum of extraordinary power and possibility.

And there's a LOT of black magic taking place in the world today, so it's a rather significant fulcrum of historical causation to repudiate that and turn it against itself both in one's own world and in the emerging world of our fellow man, like a Magnum Opus, So to be a Magus, you're going to be working on the best possible thing imaginable and beyond. There's power there in that kind of visioning/imagining. It's what I call a "commission" (Godsent from a first/last cause with creative intent) to help realize a participatory eschatology in a spirit of koinonia. My own intention then is to learn how to use ingenious humor as a form of powerful white magic. I'm serious.

Best wishes,

NAM

Originally posted by eso322
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Altight new age man. Would love your word on the subject. I feel extremely left out...

Will do, after I finish that little story I started about my recent experience with Magic.

For now I'll just say that you have to find the fulcrum between what is, and is becoming, and what is not, or what will be rejected or sacrificed, by choice, to realize a definite outcome. Think along the lines of - there is ALWAYS a price to be paid for everything and therefore a sacrifice of some kind, like a deal that's being made. If it's for a purely selfish gain as all black magic is, a very dangerous and precarious thing, to make such deals all along the way, but, if for the sake of a mutuality, then look out, because it will WORK in that case, not always exactly according to expectation and more often than not with a surprise, so it's not a lot unlike the unraveling of a good joke when the outcome is realized. The magician then is one with a playfully creative sense of humor, mirth and charm, and playfullness.