Why we SHOULD demand military action on Syria

reply to post by mikegrouchy


The UN is a worthless parasite. I eschew it.

Originally posted by cavtrooper7
reply to post by mikegrouchy

 

The UN is a worthless parasite. I eschew it.

Then it behooves us to get a grip
own the situation and invent our
own solutions.

Help us figure out what is really
going on over there.



I can get some information from
the refugee camp, but we want
more, and from more sources.


Mike

The UN is a poker game that we host in our house.

It is not the ruler of our house.

I find it curious how many dyed-in-the-wool conspir-
acy realists who have been against a NWO are now
arguing in favor of UN ownership if this situation.





We humans have never
had a world war, what there wasn't
a league of nations or a UN there first to shepherd it.







All these modern wars are caused by publishing.

Hearst Corporation
[color=salmon] 1898 Spanish American war






It's a conflict between the words [color=gold] resident and [color=gold] nation

[color=salmon] 1913 German Nationality law (nationality defined by descent not residency)
en.wikipedia.org...


The idea that Germany dared to define themselves by descent and
not by the approved of idea of residency inflamed the world against
them almost overnight.

[color=salmon] 1914 ww1 july 28



Melbourne 1914







These self appointed world governing bodies
are nothing more than publishg houses in the
war of words

[color=salmon] 1933 league of nations
[color=salmon] 1939 ww2


First meeting of the League of Nations.







The UN publishes instructions for their troops,
but they don't train or handle the soldiers they back.
The UN doesn't have troops.
They just publish decisions and rules.

[color=salmon] 1945 United Nations
Palestinians refuse to identify themselves by Nation, [color=gold] citing only Residency.



So if the German people were destroyed for citing descent as [color=gold] what a
Nation is, and then the Palestinian people were supplanted for citing
Residency for [color=gold] what a Nation is.... just what does the UN believe?





First resolution of the United Nations: In January 1946 the General Assembly agreed on the “elimination from [color=gold] national armaments of atomic weapons and of all other major weapons adaptable to mass destruction.”




The United Nations and Disarmament 1945-1965 (www.amazon.com)


Pope goes to UN, calls for end of war and age of peace. 1965



At the 1965 U.N.'s Women's Conference in Beijing, China, Mrs. Bruntland, a medical doctor, made a sustained attack on the Vatican delegation for their opposition to abortion as woman's universal right.

UNICEF was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1965 and ... Catholics have also accused UNICEF of supporting abortion through their ...


first "terrorist" incident 1970
wikipedia / list of terrorist incidents 1970


Swissair 330





My conclusion.
The UN has reclassified war as terrorism, unless they do it,
and now we have abortion too.

They have abdicated their own first mandate (the end of
nuclear and chemical weapons) in favor of advocating
abortion as the path to peace.





The birth rate across all of Europe has dropped below 2.1.
No civilization in the history of the world has recovered
from a birth rate that drops below 2.1.
Europe is growing grey on it's feet, with no relief in sight.
They just haven't realized yet.
That most of them are old now and there aren't enough children.

Europeans are extinct,
something no "war" was ever able to accomplish.




Mike

The entire 1 hour episode is online at Youtube.


Mike

OK Mike. If you truly want to get the bit between your teeth over chemical weapons then please peruse this little short history of chemical weapons.

www.counterpunch.org...

To know about that which you crusade would be the obvious first step, would it not?


And this would suggest that maybe that crusade should begin at home.

jnslp.com...

Originally posted by mikegrouchy


Europeans are extinct,
something no "war" was ever able to accomplish.

Mike

Europeans are not extinct, unless Im speaking from the grave.

The only thing that seems to be extinct is true freedom, justice, integrity and honour(the world over). And that my friend is MY current crusade.

Originally posted by OneManArmy

Originally posted by mikegrouchy


Europeans are extinct,
something no "war" was ever able to accomplish.

Mike

Europeans are not extinct, unless Im speaking from the grave.

The only thing that seems to be extinct is true freedom, justice, integrity and honour(the world over). And that my friend is MY current crusade.

The only reason some European countries
are showing an increase in population is
because of immigration.

The cultural Europeans have grown gray,
have not had enough children, and are
going extinct.

They just don't know it yet.



I can't watch the videos for anyone,
I can't cause someone to reach an
understanding of the forces at work
in their world.

But apparently I can be rejected.

So I have become Cassandra then,
the girl who tried to warn the Trojans,
but who was not believed.


Mike

The story of the boy that cried wolf explains where we are at right now.

Bush, Bliar, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the rest of the neo-con hawks are the boy that cried wolf.

And now here we are, its not complicated, its simple, and easy to understand, even a nursery child should know the story of the boy that cried wolf.

the regime's 4th Division runs detention centers in its bases in and around Damascus.

The division is commanded by Maher Assad, the president's younger brother.

Syria unit 'running secret prisons'

This stuff is monstrous enough,
but the use of Chemical Weapons
is a whole new level of bad.


Mike

Originally posted by mikegrouchy

the regime's 4th Division runs detention centers in its bases in and around Damascus.

The division is commanded by Maher Assad, the president's younger brother.

Syria unit 'running secret prisons'

This stuff is monstrous enough,
but the use of Chemical Weapons
is a whole new level of bad.

Mike

Yet another crusade you should start at home. You must have heard of extraordinary rendition?

en.wikipedia.org...

I would much rather you actually responded to peoples objections to what you are posting.
Just banging on with the same message without even acknowledging anyones "real" objections is rather like insanity, "doing the same damn thing and expecting a different result"
I suppose technically, me trying to get you to at least reply to a single point is also insanity, but hey I tried, I failed, I gave up.

I noticed that the Pope has called for a world wide
day of prayer for peace this Saturday the 7th.

I hope Assad listens.

We in the west listen. We love peace, we crave
it. We bend over backwards to try and get it.
But the despots just keep running rough shod
over our hopes.

It is interesting to me how many people are
arguing to protect the use of Chemical Weapons
and don't even realize it.


Mike

Originally posted by mikegrouchy


It is interesting to me how many people are
arguing to protect the use of Chemical Weapons
and don't even realize it.

Mike

Right back atcha.

If you dont even know who you are fighting, how do you ever expect to win?

I think maybe reading Sun Tzu's - Art Of War, might, just might help a little.

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself,
you will succumb in every battle”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

“Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

“All warfare is based on deception.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

After writing The Art of War, Sun Wu got an audience with the king of Wu.
The king invited him to demonstrate his military skills by training the court
concubines. Sun Wu accepted the challenge.

Sun Tzu explained the commands for marching, but when the drum
signals were given, the women burst out laughing. Sun Tzu first principle
if the orders are not clear, the general is at fault. So he repeated his
explanation, but the women only laughed again. Sun Tzu second principle
that when the orders are clear but not followed, the officers are at fault. So
Sun Tzu ordered the women's commanders, the king's two favorite
concubines, beheaded.

The King of Wu watching from the walls was appalled and sent a message.
"We are sure that you are a wonderful strategist, only we ask you spare
these two." To which Sun Tzu replied with his third principle. "When in the
field the sovereign shall not meddle in the affairs of the General." And he
cut off their heads anyway.

After the two were executed and replaced, the remaining women obeyed
the orders precisely. The king was too sickened by the deaths to watch the
demonstrations, but he gave Sun Tzu command of his army.








Facinating that one would mention Sun Tzu precisely when the Sovereign
authority of this country (We The People) are meddling in the affairs of the
generals.


Mike

Originally posted by mikegrouchy

Facinating that one would mention Sun Tzu precisely when the Sovereign
authority of this country (We The People) are meddling in the affairs of the
generals.

Mike

Dont you mean our Civilian leaders(not our generals) are meddling in the affairs of a sovereign nation, half way around the world?

Not quite the same thing, but kudos for addressing a point.

My main point was "KNOW YOUR ENEMY and know yourself"

Originally posted by OneManArmy

Originally posted by mikegrouchy

Facinating that one would mention Sun Tzu precisely when the Sovereign
authority of this country (We The People) are meddling in the affairs of the
generals.

Mike

Dont you mean our Civilian leaders(not our generals) are meddling in the affairs of a sovereign nation, half way around the world?

Not quite the same thing, but kudos for addressing a point.

My main point was "KNOW YOUR ENEMY and know yourself"

Then perhaps this is the wrong thread.
Philosophy is a separate forum. Here
the topics are...



1)
feels like we are being played. TPTB have had long enough to factor in the Conspiracy Realists
into their equations, and they are counting on us being against this action.


2)
Out of all the lies and deceptions fed us over the past two generations, nothing compares
to the use of chemical weapons. If we act on this one issue, we will be in the right.


3)
One of the self justifying motives of elites is that they feel the public cannot be trusted with
serious decisions when it maters most. This is a serious decision and it maters a lot.


4)
When every everyone "just knows", or everyone "feels the same" is when I get suspicious
that the subliminals are at work or that people are not actually thinking before they act.


5)
There maybe only 10% of the population of America that really knows how horrible the
leaders of many of those Middle Eastern country are, that the cries of "Hypocrisy" thrown
at America are laughably naïve, but I'm confident that 10% is enough.


6)
Who trusts UN inspectors, who trusts the FBI experts, and it may be that other groups
have been compromised. I demand that we send the Army, that they take samples
and that the samples be sent to a wide variety of labs. All done publicly and publish
results available openly.




. 7)
The era of Secret powers, Secret Intelligence, Secret Agencies,

and Secret documents must end. It is anathema to both America,

and to the American Way. If we shy away from this all the holders

of secret power will say to each other "see, they don't want to

know."





8)
All the skepticism, mistrust, and resistance has been our biggest asset, as Conspiracy
Realist, up till now. If we can't show the self awareness to change course over an issue
that is nothing like the other ones before it, we risk becoming a cliché.


This is the reasoning.
The mission parameters are an open question to the community.


I would like to say something about all the emotionality I have seen in other threads.
If I may.


Some have said "Saddam used chems, we didn't care then"
To that I say, shut up you weekend theorist. It is never too late to care, it is never
to late to start a thread, make a video, or even draw a picture showing how horrible
it was, how it shouldn't have happened, and how your are really really against it.
But no, your type always use something from somewhere else to attack people
dealing with things right here an now.


Some have said "The west are hypocrites"
Blow it out your ear. If a single one of those tyrannical leaders you are so fond of
defending had to put up with the media scrutiny and public derision we casually
heap on our leaders, their heads would explode. They look good because they
keep so many secrets, and no one knows where the bodies are buried.


hopefully the position is tad bit clearer.


Mike

Originally posted by mikegrouchy

Then perhaps this is the wrong thread.
Philosophy is a separate forum.

No not philosophy, its the WAR you are asking "we the people" to take up against an UNKNOWN enemy, in the name of ridding the world of "ze evil chemical weapons" when it turns out that we need to start investigating governments right at home.

Here
the topics are...



1)
feels like we are being played. TPTB have had long enough to factor in the Conspiracy Realists
into their equations, and they are counting on us being against this action.

Of course we are being played, we are ALWAYS being played.

2)
Out of all the lies and deceptions fed us over the past two generations, nothing compares
to the use of chemical weapons. If we act on this one issue, we will be in the right.

Firstly I think you will find that Rwanda easily transends the use of chemical weapons, and secondly define "ACT".

3)
One of the self justifying motives of elites is that they feel the public cannot be trusted with
serious decisions when it maters most. This is a serious decision and it maters a lot.

That is a matter of their disconnect from the people they claim to represent,"we the people" let them detach themselves from the reality "we the people" live in. Maybe shouldnt have rushed to give the "commander in chief" too much power, cos ya know they say "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely"

4)
When every everyone "just knows", or everyone "feels the same" is when I get suspicious
that the subliminals are at work or that people are not actually thinking before they act.

Yes I agree, I feel the same way, and I also have to look at myself and wonder, "am i actually being a bit too paranoid?"
When you see the world with open eyes and not through a tv screen its amazing how many of the subliminals dont get a chance to go to work. And your view of the world becomes more realistic and less idealistic.
You call it conspiracy realist, I can dig that.

5)
There maybe only 10% of the population of America that really knows how horrible the
leaders of many of those Middle Eastern country are, that the cries of "Hypocrisy" thrown
at America are laughably naïve, but I'm confident that 10% it is enough.

And of that 10% how many know who educated and put these dictators where they are today, and allowed them to do their "evil", sold them the weapons and equipment to do it and still attend royal dinners and business meetings and Carlisle Group meetings.

6)
Who trusts UN inspectors, who trusts the FBI experts, and it may be that other groups
have been compromised. I demand that we send the Army, that they take samples
and that the samples be sent to a wide variety of labs. All done publicly and publish
results available openly.

When the UN is fronted by USA, FRANCE, UK, RUSSIA and CHINA, then it is obvious they cannot be trusted.
And its too late for taking samples now. But if another atrocity happens, and it will, then the samples should be open source. Can the army be trusted to take the samples? I mean, dont they work for "commander in chief"?

So not military .maybe a college person like myself,without exterior knowledge...or less.
Danger:soap boxes may appear higher than they really are when standing on them.

Published on Dec 13, 2012


The "red line" is from last year,
and is a phrase used by the
world community. When the
President used it he was just
echoing an existing sentiment.


Mike

Here is the latest word from Syria.


Mike

The 21st of August I tell you what the Syrian People say.
They have kidnapped children and men from the villages
of Latakia brought them here, put them in one place, and
used Chemical Weapons against them.

That the story that the villagers, in these villages, know.

Dr Bouthaina Shaaban, an adviser to Syrian President Bashar al Assad