US Military has Doubts about Syria Strike (will they refuse strike orders?)

Hi DarkSecret,

Originally posted by DarkSecret
First if the military were to refuse an order then we'd all be in much more trouble than anyone can imagine. A military coup in the US would probably cause the Constitution to be completely rewritten as the shadow govt really wants.

Interesting, real interesting! We forget that the federal government exist at the convenience of the states, whereby 2/3 of the states legislatures can (I don't recall the exact words) terminate and replace the federal government. Federal politicians have long forgotten that they exist at the convenience of the states.

Now, how such a "refusal" would be done, and who would do such a refusal, is best answered by the scholars of this very website.

Second the prez is a puppet....

Yes, a puppet to George Soros, Vallerie Jarrett, and other high level Commies.

If it was already decided that there will be a war then there will be one, with or without public or congress approval. History is repeating itself.

Indeed!

A question for readers, if I may ask.....

Any general officers, flag officers, reading this message thread? Yes? No? Maybe? Not sure?
Any DOD Senior Executive Service (SES) reading this message thread? Yes? No? Maybe?
Anyone at the O-6 pay-grade reading this? Yes? No? Maybe?
Any congressional aides reading this? No, of course not. (waste of bandwidth to ask)

Yes, of course, it will have to be read on a home computer, since ATS is blocked from all government computers.

Remember back around the last presidential election in the US when Gen Petraeus was ousted from the CIA and a number of high level generals/admirals were suddenly relieved of command or retired early under what appeared to be duress?

There were rumors at the time of an organized effort among high level officers in the military to oppose Obama and of a possible upcoming coup. There were also rumors that some of these officers had tried to defy orders to stand down and tried instead to send in help to the 'consulate' or CIA annex in Benghazi and had been relieved on the spot.

I have no idea how much truth there may have been to any of those rumors, if any. But I would think that would be what Obama (or any president or world leader) would do. Shut it down and replace people. Disappear people if that wasn't enough.

If you don't think Obama and the people around him) know how to get rid of people who oppose him, take a look at that and at his 2004 Senate campaign. What happened to his original 2004 opponent, Jack Ryan, is eerily similar to what happened to Gen Petraeus.

So I'll make a prediction: Some shake-ups in the Pentagon, some early retirements of a few high ranking officers, and maybe another sex scandal.

reply to post by FlyersFan



You're not serious, OP.

Most of the military brass over there was replaced in the past eighteen months with Obama's handpicked people.

...especially since Benghazi.

They will do whatever the he tells them to do.

Military personnel will only have the right to refuse an order to attack if they are given an unlawful order. For this to happen, Obama would have to order the attack without Congressional authorization and support. Until that time, all Enlisted and Officers are bound by their oath.

Good luck getting Veterans to re-enlist if this conflict sparks of a regional war and Russia gets involved. The vast majority of us see no sense in getting involved in their civil war.

Originally posted by Adonsa
Hi DarkSecret,

Originally posted by DarkSecret
First if the military were to refuse an order then we'd all be in much more trouble than anyone can imagine. A military coup in the US would probably cause the Constitution to be completely rewritten as the shadow govt really wants.

Interesting, real interesting! We forget that the federal government exist at the convenience of the states, whereby 2/3 of the states legislatures can (I don't recall the exact words) terminate and replace the federal government. Federal politicians have long forgotten that they exist at the convenience of the states.

Now, how such a "refusal" would be done, and who would do such a refusal, is best answered by the scholars of this very website.

Yeah, good luck with that. I think we all remember what happened the last time this was tried. We got a bloody civil war that didn't end well for the dissidents!

But as I said, even if 2/3 of states were to try to depose the feds as you're suggesting, we would just get a conveniently updated constitution out of DC which would force the 2/3 "troublemakers" to either fall in line or be obliterated. The feds aren't what they used to be, their power is unlimited when it comes to military and equipment. Certainly it will be enough for shock & awe against a few states to make all others afraid to speak up.

Remember at this point in history our govt isn't here to serve us. They are not public servants anymore. They are the people in power who can disappear anybody as an enemy of the state. Maybe 3 months ago lots of people were still hoping it's a wild conspiracy, but today we KNOW they CAN and WILL bring any dissident to their knees. All it takes is to hack your accounts and put some materials in there, then throw you into the criminal system. Or worse just "fix" your car and improve its acceleration (when u hit the brakes) - which can even be done with home-brew means, as shown by some hackers earlier this year.

Face it, we're either with them and enjoy whatever life we can afford now - or we're dead. The choice is simple.

That's the end for this clown Obama - I hope!

It is incredible how he changed. I believe that he is becoming a marionette. So what do THEY have against Obama that he is doing such stupid decisions?

Originally posted by Adonsa
Hi DarkSecret,

Originally posted by DarkSecret
Second the prez is a puppet....

Yes, a puppet to George Soros, Vallerie Jarrett, and other high level Commies.

Also you're still stuck in the Dem/Commie vs Rep/Fascist mentality. Open your eyes - both sides are just as bad and they really only disagree for the sake of creating the illusion of a choice. There is no escape, the republic has been taken over by the dark side and good luck doing anything about it.

Have you seen how they used the terror laws in the UK to detain a journalist's male partner for 9 hours just cuz they could? Yes they WILL come for your family/friends/lovers if you don't shut up. That's how it will be and this is only the beginning. You can look into how the former USSR and the former Eastern European communist dictatorships were operating. Read about STASI. That's what's coming, but 100 fold worse since they have all this new technology now.

reply to post by DarkSecret


Yes but the last time the states tried this, they didn't manage a 2/3 vote! To replace our government by establishing a vote where 2/3's of the states vote to do so, would be a challenge of enormous proportions because each state would have to have problems with our government.

Originally posted by Illuminating
reply to post by DarkSecret

 

Yes but the last time the states tried this, they didn't manage a 2/3 vote! To replace our government by establishing a vote where 2/3's of the states vote to do so, would be a challenge of enormous proportions because each state would have to have problems with our government.

Judging by what's been revealed during the past few months, I'd say you're overly optimistic. Yes, the dark side will try to keep appearances of normalcy for the masses. But if they have to they will just as easily slaughter millions - especially if cornered. When you have the kind of military might that the feds have there really is no opponent who can't be defeated.

1984 is now.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I want to know :

Where exactly does Obama plan to strike?

At Assad's Government building?

At Assad's house?

On Civilian Area's?

Because if he believes that the Rebels didn't do this, he surely won't be striking at the Rebels?

"would have to retrain" to fight an army with 'modern weapons'?

FFS.. I can't believe that.

Has the military sunk so low that we have only trained how to bully around goat herders? I don't know.

But if the Russians think or in their minds "know" our troops are soft/weak they may pounce. It would be EPIC FAIL if our forces are so spread they can be taken out like checkers on a board, jump, jump, jump.


I do know, that after the 90's "purge", most real tough guy field/flag officers exited. Most of the current flag grade are weak career hounds. clammy limp wristed hand shakes. 4 stars! admirals and generals now.

Originally posted by FlyersFanI'm thinking that if those people refused his orders, then Obama would never admit it and instead he'd be out saying some spin like 'after discussions with the Joint Chiefs I have come to the conclusion that this is not the time for a strike

Don't you think he already checked with the military brass? Do you think he just woke up one day, decided to attack Syria and called the press to tell them so? The administration won't just pull something like this out of their sleeve and hope no one minds. You are selling them short. The first thing they will do is make sure that the military won't betray them. Even if it would be extremely unlikely.

My point is, there will not be a public showdown between Obama and the army over this. Come on, it's not like you're some kind of banana republic or something. Give yourselves some credit, Americans. It is kind of #ed up though... what with the nobel peace prize and all.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Krazysh0t
Except if that were to happen, Obama would just relieve them of their command and get someone who will listen to his orders.

He's going to have to go really far down the list to find anyone who agrees with him.

To disobey his orders is a HUGE deal.

VERY BIG. And it would be a disaster for Obama. Can you imagine him having to explain to the press why dozens and dozens of officers and the Joint Chiefs refused to follow his orders to bomb Syria? He's look like an even bigger fool than he already does.

I'm thinking that if those people refused his orders, then Obama would never admit it and instead he'd be out saying some spin like 'after discussions with the Joint Chiefs I have come to the conclusion that this is not the time for a strike

I'm pretty late to the party, but I figure I'll give you my two cents here.

He wouldn't have to look very far to find someone who will follow orders. The hierarchy is filled with yes men who've gotten to where they are by doing whatever was necessary to achieve it. There are plenty of Generals and Admirals who would be breaking down the door to get a job in the joint chiefs.

Originally posted by Subnatural
Do you think he just woke up one day, decided to attack Syria and called the press to tell them so?

Dude ... this is Obama ... he has been promoted WAY past his ability level.
God only knows what the heck he's doing and who is trying to keep him from running crazy there ....

I had to think about my days in the past when I played Real time strategy games for countless hours. It's like this:

Say you're a tiny force and you picked a fight with a bigger force, you draw the enemy into a fight with a much bigger force that way they mutually destroy each other. You don't have interests in either so the outcome only benefits yourself.

While no-one should ever want to go to war. Some things cannot be ignored. Too many people think that we have to "Gain" something from an attack on Syria. There doesnt always have to be a Gainful purpose other thatn doing what is right for humanity. From the posts that I see here, it says that most of you would sit on your front lawn a passively watch as your neighbor beats and murders his wife and kids on his without lifting a finger to do anything to stop it.
True, Syria is not "Our" problem, but it is a world responsibility to not allow Dictators to kill at will. If someone did the same to over a thousand Americans including your family, you would hope and pray that someone would intervene.
Besides stoping further use of WMD in Syria, there is a further purpose for our intervention. Stop looking at what only YOU understand and research to find out what is in the big picture for US actions.
As far as DOD employee's not obeying lawful orders. It will never happen in our modern Military short of Martial Law. But then it would not be our troops, but a NATO lead force. Soldiers, Airmen, Sailors, and Marines alike will go to Syria just as quickly as they all went to any other nation that they were ordered to attack.

"Be informed, for only the Ignorant will be left behind."

Obama asks congress for permission to go to war

The talk of intervention in the Syrian civil war by the
United States is another iron in the hot coals of Washington politics. Unlike the wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya, the Syria matter is much different and
extremely dangerous for the United States and its NATO partners.

The root cause of the disrupting influence by western
extremist proxies in Syria is the potential economic growth in the energy sector that will emerge to challenge the dominance by Saudi Arabia and its western oil allies in the region


Russia has a huge stake in protecting the government of
Bashar al-Assad. Syria’s western border provides a warm water sea port for Russian commercial and military vessels in the Mediterranean. Assad had agreed to partner with Russia for control of a pipeline that will be a major supplier of natural gas for Europe. The Chinese government is also working with Pakistan to build a connecting portion of Iran’s pipeline . This will
bolster the economy of Russia and give itself a firm foothold in the Middle East. Russia cannot afford to lose Syria to the rebels.

But there is another matter that goes back to 1999; the war for Kosovo independence. Russian interests and its alignment with Serbia were ignored by Europe and this upset Vladimir Putin to no end .

I believe this issue still smolders in Putin’s mind and
Syria will not be given up under any circumstances. Russian federation warships are steaming in the Mediterranean and will confront the contingent of U.S.
naval ships that are staging an assault against targets in Syria. If cruise missiles are launched there will be a counterattack that could inflame the entire region and sweep eastward into Southeast Asia. China will not tolerate extremism in its region and will react militarily as well.

President Obama must seek council from outside the
Washington beltway war birds or he will be the scapegoat for world war III

Hopefully we have just avoided a series of events that could have led to devastating retaliatory attacks, a major escalation that could have led to a broadening conflict with potentially devastating global implications.

Or worse, we only bought some time.

Nothing good will come from direct US military intervention in Syria.