If God created us, then why didn't he give us a perfect eye?

Originally posted by Raxoxane
Whoever created this race may have thought of stainless steel teeth and gums impervious to gum disease-i know this sounds flippant but its not meant to be-just years of hearing from the hubby that the best argument against intelligent design is the human mouth(teeth+gums) He also believes,as do I,that the race was created-but who/whatever by-could have designed mouths to be more effective+hardy-can you imagine the pain through all the ages before modern dentistry? And even with dentistry-there is a lot of pain+suffering centered around dental propblems,gum disease etc.To me,that is the one part of the design that could've been done differently.

True, many things could have been done differently.

Another is that our trachea and our esophagus are so close to each other that we run the risk of asphyxiation by choking with our food.

Originally posted by danielsil18
I hear a lot that god made us perfect. An example given is the human eye.

Wrong. The human eye is given as an example of something evolution can not explain. God making us perfect has nothing to do with perfection in the context you are using it. It means we are created exactly as we were intended to be created. For example, if an artist draws a 100% lifelike image, and then draws a big red X on it, and minus the red X the drawing is indeed 100% lifelike, then the drawing is perfect. Now you come along and say no it's not, there's a big red X, how can it be perfect? It's perfect because it is exactly what the creator (the artist) intended it to be.

But are our eyes really that perfect?

Depends on your definition of perfect, although the eye is not given as an example of perfection.

Our eyes are not perfect, one of it's faults is that it has a Blind Spot. The eye of an octopus doesn't have this problem. If our nerve fibers and our retina changed positions then our eyes would be better designed and we wouldn't have the blind spot.

If god created us, then why did he give the octopus better eyes?

Ask Him. I am sure if you search for an answer you can find one, as I can think of several.

Originally posted by Raxoxane
Whoever created this race may have thought of stainless steel teeth and gums impervious to gum disease-i know this sounds flippant but its not meant to be-just years of hearing from the hubby that the best argument against intelligent design is the human mouth(teeth+gums) He also believes,as do I,that the race was created-but who/whatever by-could have designed mouths to be more effective+hardy-can you imagine the pain through all the ages before modern dentistry? And even with dentistry-there is a lot of pain+suffering centered around dental propblems,gum disease etc.To me,that is the one part of the design that could've been done differently.

I hear that, I just had a tooth extracted yesterday. Ugh.

But a Christian could argue that our mouths were made perfect and that it was the introduction of sin and death that set mankind on a different path leading to all the physical ailments we see in the world today.

I have a hard time imagining the enjoyment of a sweet, juicy, summertime, peach with stainless steel teeth and gums. I think a fleshy mouth would be beneficial in enjoying the bounty of life, one bite at a time.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

Wrong. The human eye is given as an example of something evolution can not explain. God making us perfect has nothing to do with perfection in the context you are using it. It means we are created exactly as we were intended to be created. For example, if an artist draws a 100% lifelike image, and then draws a big red X on it, and minus the red X the drawing is indeed 100% lifelike, then the drawing is perfect. Now you come along and say no it's not, there's a big red X, how can it be perfect? It's perfect because it is exactly what the creator (the artist) intended it to be.

Actually many christians use the eye as evidence for god, so don't tell me im wrong, tell them they are wrong.

Why did god meant to create our eyes with flaws? It could have easily been made without that blind spot like the one from an octopus. But he decides that us humans should get the blind spot.

Why the need to make us faulty?

reply to post by slowisfast

I have a hard time imagining the enjoyment of a sweet, juicy, summertime, peach with stainless steel teeth and gums. I think a fleshy mouth would be beneficial in enjoying the bounty of life, one bite at a time.

Maybe if our saliva had more antibacterial compounds then we wouldn't need to have teeth made of stainless steel.

What. A. Completely. Ridiculous. Thread.

Suffering and evil exists - this is the endless topic of debate about Gods existence. And here you are pointing out a frailty in the design of the human eye as proof that God doesn't exist? This is like the opposite of an afortiori argument.

In any case, one could just as well say "God made an imperfect world; Gave man the intelligence and power of reason to perfect it; however, just as his eye has its blind spots, so does his spirit; he should remain alert to his spiritual blindspots if he isn't to "crash".

reply to post by danielsil18


You missed the point.

Originally posted by danielsil18

Actually many christians use the eye as evidence for god, so don't tell me im wrong, tell them they are wrong.

Yes, which is exactly what I said. They do not use it as evidence the way you claim. It is used as evidence as they claim they eye could not have evolved, it could only come about through creation. It is not claimed to be "perfect".

Why did god meant to create our eyes with flaws? It could have easily been made without that blind spot like the one from an octopus. But he decides that us humans should get the blind spot.

Why the need to make us faulty?

edit on 29-8-2013 by danielsil18 because: (no reason given)

A better question is why are you asking questions you don't want the answer to? If you actually were interested in the answer it's self evident.

Originally posted by Astrocyte
What. A. Completely. Ridiculous. Thread.

Suffering and evil exists - this is the endless topic of debate about Gods existence. And here you are pointing out a frailty in the design of the human eye as proof that God doesn't exist? This is like the opposite of an afortiori argument.

In any case, one could just as well say "God made an imperfect world; Gave man the intelligence and power of reason to perfect it; however, just as his eye has its blind spots, so does his spirit; he should remain alert to his spiritual blindspots if he isn't to "crash".

Can you quote me where I said that the design of the human eye is proof that god doesnt exist?

Can you even quote me anywhere with the word proof?

The question is why would god give an octopus a better eye than a human.

Well I wouldn't stop with the eye. Really if I had omnipotent power and designed what would be called a perfect creature or even close here are 5 things that would change everything.

1 Self-replenishing teeth like Crocodiles or sharks.
2 An internal compass like homing pigeons or sea turtles.
3 Limb regeneration like lizards/salamanders.
4 Near immortality like Turritopsis nutricula, the immortal jellyfish however the reproductive system would at the very least would need to be intentional for fear of over population. We already have a problem in that department.
5 Sonar like dolphin and bats.

Those are things other creatures in the world already have.

It has also been theorized that some creatures pass on information genetically imagine being borne with all the knowledge of your parents and parents parents....... Then I would make it to where all these things were not a problem for us.

But what do I know I don't believe in God if there is such a thing it has a weird plan.

If God created us, then why didn't he give us a perfect eye?,

Because we're sinners....

I'm surprised that God let us have any nice things; Like bicycles or radar...

reply to post by danielsil18


Why would he give a dog a better sense of smell? A cat the ability to fall on it's legs? A hawk the ability to see many times the range of a human eye? The 300 degree visual range of the bee?

This doesn't prove anything. And frankly, it doesn't add or take away anything from the God debate.

An atheist will discover a "proof" in this fact, while a theist will consider it food for thought. Just as we have "unconscious" traits that cause lapses in judgement, so too does are eye have 'blind spots' that cause us to ignore events in our immediate environment. The human eye can thus be interpreted symbolically for the human mind; our perceptual experience of the world is analogous to our visual experience. Our visual "blind spot" would correspond to our unconscious "blindspots"

Learning to be a good driver requires one to pay attention to his blind spots. Likewise, learning to be a good person obligates one to be aware of ones own biases, prejudices, and other unreasonable traits.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

Yes, which is exactly what I said. They do not use it as evidence the way you claim. It is used as evidence as they claim they eye could not have evolved, it could only come about through creation. It is not claimed to be "perfect".

What many christians say is that the eye is so complex and perfect that only a creator could have done it. Their words, not mine.

Something also said by them a lot is that we are perfect beings.

A better question is why are you asking questions you don't want the answer to? If you actually were interested in the answer it's self evident.

I do want it answered by as many answers as it can be answered.

Most say "god just made us like that". So i keep asking why would he mean to create us faulty?

reply to post by Grimpachi

Well I wouldn't stop with the eye. Really if I had omnipotent power and designed what would be called a perfect creature or even close here are 5 things that would change everything.

Im asking one thing at a time so i can have answers to all my questions.

Originally posted by danielsil18
I hear a lot that god made us perfect. An example given is the human eye.

But are our eyes really that perfect?

Our eyes are not perfect, one of it's faults is that it has a Blind Spot. The eye of an octopus doesn't have this problem. If our nerve fibers and our retina changed positions then our eyes would be better designed and we wouldn't have the blind spot.

If god created us, then why did he give the octopus better eyes?

Because god created the octopus in his perfect image. Duh! Why do you think people need bibles? because we have an intentional blind spot.

Next Question.

The Rat.

There are a few possibilities :

1) God does not exist
2) God is incompetent
3) God punishes us with imperfections because we don't all behave like he/ she wants us to
4) God is a narcissist that wants to manipulate us by testing to see if we are worthy of his/ her approval.

reply to post by Astrocyte

Why would he give a dog a better sense of smell? A cat the ability to fall on it's legs? A hawk the ability to see many times the range of a human eye? The 300 degree visual range of the bee?

This doesn't prove anything. And frankly, it doesn't add or take away anything from the God debate.

It does to those who use the eye as evidence that god exists.

Many christians say the eye is so complex and perfect that it has to have a creator.

As for the god debate, i wasn't trying to make it into one. If I wanted to make it in to one i would use other topics like rapists, etc.

Originally posted by danielsil18
What many christians say is that the eye is so complex and perfect that only a creator could have done it. Their words, not mine.

Something also said by them a lot is that we are perfect beings.

That is exactly what I said, and what I explained in my opening post. They use the eye's complexity (not perfection) as an example of something evolution can not explain (it's called irreducible complexity). So you admit you took two separate ideas and combined them into one idea that is never espoused by Christians? I am glad you admit it.

So go back and look at my first post where I explained what "perfect" means.

A better question is why are you asking questions you don't want the answer to? If you actually were interested in the answer it's self evident.

I do want it answered by as many answers as it can be answered.

Most say "god just made us like that". So i keep asking why would he mean to create us faulty?

Play Devil's Advocate for a moment, assume the Bible is true, can you think of any reason? When you do so, I will give you an answer. If you tell me you can't think of one then you only confirm you are not here for answers and could not care less. You have your mind made up and are simply wanting to lord something over Christians, which you fail to recognize shows your ignorance, not theirs.

He did.

When no one likes you and censors you and stalks you .....you have a perfect eye.

reply to post by danielsil18

Im asking one thing at a time so i can have answers to all my questions.

Wasn't trying to change the subject but I have thoughts along the same lines quite a bit.

Well as far as the eye goes it would have been great if you didn't need two of them to have depth perception. I think some critters don't need two to achieve that.