To all the Christians out there...

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by borntowatch

 

Were the laws those of God or the ones made by Pharisees?

One that gets mentioned often is the questioning of Jesus by the experts on the law sent from Jerusalem, on the habit of his disciples to not wash their hands before eating bread.
The general defence brought up by the people who hold to Jesus' lack of heresy concerning the Torah, is that they only violated rabbinical laws.
Looking for such a rabbinical law only produces one concerning bread used in offerings.
Looking in the Torah for laws about washing hands seems to show that it was done before making offerings.
What this makes me think is that Jesus had a custom that his disciples picked up from him, of making some sort of offering with the bread as they broke it, but the gospels left that part out so as not to have the reader possibly confuse that with the memorial symbology of the Last Supper.
So this "tradition" that the lawyers mention could be one that was based on the law in the Torah for making offerings, but was originally for the Levites involved in the Tabernacle service.

edit on 31-8-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Seems many people get Gods laws and the Lawyers laws confused
Just part of the ignorance of those with a bone to point

reply to post by eso322


We call ourselves Christian because that's the name that was given to us by others. Christian = "little Christ". That's the ideal that Christians ought to strive for.

Acts 11:26c

And in Antioch the disciples were first called Christians.

As for not following the Jewish rites and laws, why should we? Christ fulfilled the law, thus becoming the law for us. Christ is our law. (Gal 6:2; 1Cor 9:21).

reply to post by borntowatch

It is only blasphemy if it was a lie, you will need to establish some proof that Jesus lied,

I am not his accuser... but he was put to death for blasphemy

63 But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

66 What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death.

Now personally I don't think there was any crime... yet the jews did... and even to this day they consider any association with God as being blasphemous... they won't even type the word God

Working on the Sabbath, really. You may need to show some detail in relation as to what constitutes working, according to you and Judaism, and the differences.

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do ANY work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Though Jesus said it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath... the Torah disagrees, and if Jesus was a Jew that was all that mattered... Thus he not only broke the law but changed it...

An eye for an eye is the law, it is still applicable.

Incorrect....

38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Is that it....really

No actually its not... but im not here to do your research for you...

What laws did He break

Do some reading and figure it out....

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by borntowatch

 

It is only blasphemy if it was a lie, you will need to establish some proof that Jesus lied,

I am not his accuser... but he was put to death for blasphemy

63 But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

66 What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death.

Now personally I don't think there was any crime... yet the jews did... and even to this day they consider any association with God as being blasphemous... they won't even type the word God

Working on the Sabbath, really. You may need to show some detail in relation as to what constitutes working, according to you and Judaism, and the differences.

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do ANY work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Though Jesus said it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath... the Torah disagrees, and if Jesus was a Jew that was all that mattered... Thus he not only broke the law but changed it...

An eye for an eye is the law, it is still applicable.

Incorrect....

38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Is that it....really

No actually its not... but im not here to do your research for you...

What laws did He break

Do some reading and figure it out....

He was accused and executed for blasphemy, I believe He was innocent.
Where is the Jews proof, Jesus wasnt God

I asked you what constituted work, what is your reply. Dont quote scripture that states the word work, define work.
Is turning a light switch on work, washing dishes, cooking, feeding a baby, eating.
What is work
Dont be a Pharisee.

An eye for an eye is the law, it is still applicable, yes it still is
Jesus didnt do away with the law,
"Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose.

Jesus fulfilled the law for those who accept him. Jesus was the sacrifice. Basic Christianity
Those outside of Jesus are still under the law, it is still in existence

reply to post by borntowatch

He was accused and executed for blasphemy, I believe He was innocent.
Where is the Jews proof, Jesus wasnt God

I also believe he was innocent, but that doesn't change the fact that he was executed for the crime of blasphemy... accused and convicted by the people who make the law...

and Jesus wasn't God... by his own words

I asked you what constituted work, what is your reply. Dont quote scripture that states the word work, define work.

Again why do I have to do your research?

look it up man...

Is turning a light switch on work

do you recall any mention of light switches in the bible?

washing dishes,

Yes...

cooking,

Yes... in fact you're supposed to prepare your meals the day before...

feeding a baby, eating.

No...

What is work

Like I said... look it up...

Or read the bible a few times...

Dont be a Pharisee.

Don't be a typical Christian and start with the name calling...

An eye for an eye is the law, it is still applicable, yes it still is
Jesus didnt do away with the law,

So this.... “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

is just a suggestion?

And What law didn't he do away with?

the 613 laws?

Jesus fulfilled the law for those who accept him. Jesus was the sacrifice. Basic Christianity

Except we're talking about Judaism...

Those outside of Jesus are still under the law, it is still in existence

Right... If you're an adherent to Judaic beliefs... In that sense Jesus wasn't God or the messiah...

So what is your point here?

are you just arguing to defend your god?

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by borntowatch

 

He was accused and executed for blasphemy, I believe He was innocent.
Where is the Jews proof, Jesus wasnt God

I also believe he was innocent, but that doesn't change the fact that he was executed for the crime of blasphemy... accused and convicted by the people who make the law...

I asked you what constituted work, what is your reply. Dont quote scripture that states the word work, define work.

Again why do I have to do your research?

look it up man...

Is turning a light switch on work

do you recall any mention of light switches in the bible?

washing dishes,

Yes...

cooking,

Yes... in fact you're supposed to prepare your meals the day before...

feeding a baby, eating.

No...

What is work

Like I said... look it up...

Or read the bible a few times...

Dont be a Pharisee.

Don't be a typical Christian and start with the name calling...

An eye for an eye is the law, it is still applicable, yes it still is
Jesus didnt do away with the law,

So this.... “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

is just a suggestion?

And What law didn't he do away with?

the 613 laws?

Jesus fulfilled the law for those who accept him. Jesus was the sacrifice. Basic Christianity

Except we're talking about Judaism...

Those outside of Jesus are still under the law, it is still in existence

Right... If you're an adherent to Judaic beliefs... In that sense Jesus wasn't God or the messiah...

So what is your point here?

are you just arguing to defend your god?

edit on 1-9-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

Yes He was accused and executed, we agree, whats your point. I dont see the relevance?

Yes you are right, there were no light switches 2000 years ago to the best of my knowledge
Some modern Jews today wont use a light switch because they consider it work.

My question was what do you consider work, picking sour grass and chewing the juice?
Some Jews think picking strawberry's and eating them is work.
Where do you draw the line of work?. (Yes i dont know of any strawberry links in the bible either.....thanks)

Me, I consider work my employment, not picking strawberry's or chewing sour grass.
Seems plenty of Pharisees added to the law, look that up.
If I think that cooking is fun, can I cook on the sabbath or will you deny me that pleasure.
What is work and who decides..you, the Pharisees



Let me just state that God is going to judge humanity based on a law, according to the bible.
That is the Mosaic law.
Outside of Jesus, the law will be applied to all, not just Jews, all.

In Jesus we have grace from the law, we are talking Christianity, the thread is aimed at Christians

and btw, where does the bible say you have to prepare your meals the day before the Sabbath?

I am not a Jew and I wont and cant defend God.
I will leave that to Him.

and when I say dont be a Pharisee I mean dont be a lawyer using tricks and words to manipulate the argument.
Answer hounestly, what is work to you. Do you have the final decission

reply to post by borntowatch

and when I say dont be a Pharisee I mean dont be a lawyer using tricks and words to manipulate the argument.
Answer hounestly

I always answer honestly... Just because you don't understand my answer according to your own book, does not make it any less valid. Im Not using tricks or manipulation... I just happen to know the bible... and its not my problem that you don't...

Yes He was accused and executed, we agree, whats your point. I dont see the relevance?

He broke the law... Are you not paying attention?

Yes you are right, there were no light switches 2000 years ago to the best of my knowledge
Some modern Jews day wont use a light switch because they consider it work.

Correct... that is because it is considered "starting a fire" in some extremely strict sects...

My question was what do you consider work, picking sour grass and chewing the juice?

You really don't know your bible do you?

Do you recall Jesus and his disciples picking corn?

Some Jews think picking strawberry's and eating them is work.

Correct...

Where do you draw the line of work?. (Yes i dont know of any strawberry links in the bible either.....thanks)

I did not write the bible... perhaps you should consult your book?

Me, I consider work my employment, not picking strawberry's or chewing sour grass.
Seems plenty of Pharisees added to the law, look that up.

You hardly seem to be in any place to suggest I look anything up... in YOUR book...

The rest of your post is confusing

Why does that not surprise me...

Let me just state that God is going to judge humanity based on a law, according to the bible.
That is the Mosaic law.
Outside of Jesus, the law will be applied.

Let me just say... You should make your own thread if you are looking to preach...

again I ask... what law are you referring to?

this perhaps?

www.jewfaq.org...

In Jesus we have grace from the law, we are talking Christianity, the thread is aimed at Christians

and btw, where does the bible say you have to prepare your meals the day before the Sabbath?

I am not a Jew and I wont and cant defend God.
I will leave that to Him.

For the last time im not doing your research for you... and preaching doesn't change the fact that Jesus broke and changed previous laws that were in effect... and remained in effect until Christianity was widely accepted a few hundred years later...

reply to post by borntowatch

Seems many people get Gods laws and the Lawyers laws confused. Just part of the ignorance of those with a bone to point

I think that it is a point worth noting that the gospels does not preserve an argument by Jesus in defence of the criticism by the Jewish experts in the law.

I have to figure, as I already mentioned, that there was more going on than what is readily apparent.
It makes me think of the story in Luke about the two disciples on the road to Emmaus, where they recognized Jesus when he broke the bread, probably because he had a distinctive way of doing it.

I doubt that it was because he had holes in his hands. He may have had holes but I think that if he did, the gospel would have just said so, but it doesn't.

Was Jesus performing an early version of the Eucharist? Maybe, which Catholics seem to take as a type of sacrifice (though the logic of that characterization escapes me) that he did what could have been construed by the Jews as being an ordinary allusion to the temple sacrifices, but was easily converted by those in the know into a symbol of Jesus' sacrifice. Either way, the Jews would have seen it clearly as a procedure that legally necessitated a washing of hands before performing.
The fact that it does say that these Jews had come from Jerusalem is probably significant in that if this allusion to a sacrifice was to a temple sacrifice, it would place the ones doing it under the authority of the rulers of the temple, as if they had copyright control over all things "sacrificial". If so, then Jesus attitude was a statement of his independence from that authority. The implication would then be that he was creating a new religious authority in opposition to the established one, which was his own authority as the Son of Man.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by borntowatch

 

and when I say dont be a Pharisee I mean dont be a lawyer using tricks and words to manipulate the argument.
Answer hounestly

I always answer honestly... Just because you don't understand my answer according to your own book, does not make it any less valid. Im Not using tricks or manipulation... I just happen to know the bible... and its not my problem that you don't...

Yes He was accused and executed, we agree, whats your point. I dont see the relevance?

He broke the law... Are you not paying attention?

Yes you are right, there were no light switches 2000 years ago to the best of my knowledge
Some modern Jews day wont use a light switch because they consider it work.

Correct... that is because it is considered "starting a fire" in some extremely strict sects...

My question was what do you consider work, picking sour grass and chewing the juice?

You really don't know your bible do you?

Do you recall Jesus and his disciples picking corn?

Some Jews think picking strawberry's and eating them is work.

Correct...

Where do you draw the line of work?. (Yes i dont know of any strawberry links in the bible either.....thanks)

I did not write the bible... perhaps you should consult your book?

Me, I consider work my employment, not picking strawberry's or chewing sour grass.
Seems plenty of Pharisees added to the law, look that up.

You hardly seem to be in any place to suggest I look anything up... in YOUR book...

The rest of your post is confusing

Why does that not surprise me...

Let me just state that God is going to judge humanity based on a law, according to the bible.
That is the Mosaic law.
Outside of Jesus, the law will be applied.

Let me just say... You should make your own thread if you are looking to preach...

again I ask... what law are you referring to?

this perhaps?

www.jewfaq.org...

In Jesus we have grace from the law, we are talking Christianity, the thread is aimed at Christians

and btw, where does the bible say you have to prepare your meals the day before the Sabbath?

I am not a Jew and I wont and cant defend God.
I will leave that to Him.

For the last time im not doing your research for you... and preaching doesn't change the fact that Jesus broke and changed previous laws that were in effect... and remained in effect until Christianity was widely accepted a few hundred years later...

edit on 1-9-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

This is pointless

Jesus said He was the son of God and the Messiah, He was, so didnt break any laws. Jesus was innocent but was executed, no laws were broken. What law did Jesus break

You wont answer what you constitute work as, very cunning, Very lawyer like. not honest or genuine.
I asked what work was, you wont answer, what does the bible say work is, you were telling me "work". I dont see the finer details in the bible, you seem to infer what YOU think work is, not the bibles description

I know Jesus picked grain, was that work or fun, you tell me where picking grain in this situation was considered work and against the law of God
Pharisees said it was, but the Mosaic law doesnt. If it does, where, I cant find it

Where in those laws you linked does that law demand food be cooked before the Sabbath?
The bible doesnt say that Jews have to prepare meals before the sabbath, If it does, where, I cant find it

Clearly you dont look anything up in Gods word, only assume what you think is true.

Clearly your assumptions are based on false beliefs and hearsay.

Sadly you have no answers and wont state anything other than
"im not doing your research for you"

Cop out

reply to post by borntowatch



*sigh*

NO man...

Im not doing your research for you because I've already been through this with what one might call a "Judaic Christian" or perhaps a Christian Jew... whatever label you'd like...

Basically someone adhering to both Christianity and Judaism...

I've tried to "keep the Sabbath" according to all the laws in the bloody bible long ago... its not easy...

And your silly assumptions don't mean JACK...

Jesus said He was the son of God and the Messiah, He was, so didnt break any laws. Jesus was innocent but was executed, no laws were broken. What law did Jesus break

Please refer to the my previous replies...

You wont answer what you constitute work as, very cunning, Very lawyer like. not honest or genuine.
I asked what work was, you wont answer, what does the bible say work is, you were telling me "work". I dont see the finer details in the bible, you seem to infer what YOU think work is, not the bibles description

You don't see the finer details because you're clearly not reading the bible where the details are found... look in the first five books of the bible... Leviticus is a good place to start...

I know Jesus picked grain, was that work or fun,

FUN?!?

you tell me where picking grain in this situation was considered work and against the law of God
Pharisees said it was, but the Mosaic law doesnt.

Seriously do you have any idea what you're talking about?

Where in those laws you linked does that law demand food be cooked before the Sabbath?
The bible doesnt say that Jews have to prepare meals before the sabbath, If it does, where, I cant find it

IF you're not allowed to start a fire... how would you cook anything?

Clearly you dont look anything up in Gods word, only assume what you think is true.

Clearly your assumptions are based on false beliefs and hearsay.

Sadly you have no answers and wont state anything other than
"im not doing your research for you"

Cop out

CLEARLY... im getting tired of arguing with someone who doesn't know what they're talking about...

Not to mention someone giving me attitude for no reason other then to be blatantly obtuse

I'll just leave it at this...

he broke the law... its a FACT...

Sorry if you don't like it...

reply to post by octotom

As for not following the Jewish rites and laws, why should we? Christ fulfilled the law, thus becoming the law for us. Christ is our law.

That seems to be the important thing that is always overlooked when discussing Jesus statement that he did not come to do away with the Law, that the jot and tittle would not pass away, until all has been completed.
Jesus, says Paul in Romans 10:4, is the completion of the law.

reply to post by jmdewey60

Jesus, says Paul in Romans 10:4, is the completion of the law.

K.......... that just hurt my eyes....

Say what?

Jesus doesn't mention Paul...

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by borntowatch

 

*sigh*

NO man...

Im not doing your research for you because I've already been through this with what one might call a "Judaic Christian" or perhaps a Christian Jew... whatever label you'd like...

Basically someone adhering to both Christianity and Judaism...

I've tried to "keep the Sabbath" according to all the laws in the bloody bible long ago... its not easy...

And your silly assumptions don't mean JACK...

Jesus said He was the son of God and the Messiah, He was, so didnt break any laws. Jesus was innocent but was executed, no laws were broken. What law did Jesus break

Please refer to the my previous replies...

You wont answer what you constitute work as, very cunning, Very lawyer like. not honest or genuine.
I asked what work was, you wont answer, what does the bible say work is, you were telling me "work". I dont see the finer details in the bible, you seem to infer what YOU think work is, not the bibles description

You don't see the finer details because you're clearly not reading the bible where the details are found... look in the first five books of the bible... Leviticus is a good place to start...

I know Jesus picked grain, was that work or fun,

FUN?!?

you tell me where picking grain in this situation was considered work and against the law of God
Pharisees said it was, but the Mosaic law doesnt.

Seriously do you have any idea what you're talking about?

Where in those laws you linked does that law demand food be cooked before the Sabbath?
The bible doesnt say that Jews have to prepare meals before the sabbath, If it does, where, I cant find it

IF you're not allowed to start a fire... how would you cook anything?

Clearly you dont look anything up in Gods word, only assume what you think is true.

Clearly your assumptions are based on false beliefs and hearsay.

Sadly you have no answers and wont state anything other than
"im not doing your research for you"

Cop out

CLEARLY... im getting tired of arguing with someone who doesn't know what they're talking about...

Not to mention someone giving me attitude for no reason other then to be blatantly obtuse

I'll just leave it at this...

he broke the law... its a FACT...

Sorry if you don't like it...

edit on 1-9-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

Where does the bible state a Jew cant start a fire on the Sabbath. Read exodus 35:3 again

name calling now.

reply to post by borntowatch


What name did I call you?

Obtuse?

If you don't know something, just say so.... don't come at me preaching Christian dogma...

That's called being humble....

And Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said unto them, These are the words which the Lord hath commanded, that ye should do them.

2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the Lord: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.

3 Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.

4 And Moses spake unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, saying, This is the thing which the Lord commanded, saying,

etc etc

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by borntowatch

 

What name did I call you?

Obtuse?

If you don't know something, just say so.... don't come at me preaching Christian dogma...

That's called being humble....

And Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said unto them, These are the words which the Lord hath commanded, that ye should do them.

2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the Lord: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.

3 Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.

4 And Moses spake unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, saying, This is the thing which the Lord commanded, saying,

etc etc

edit on 1-9-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

and I called you a Pharisee, playing with words

e shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations vpon the Sabbath day.
- King James Version (1611) - View 1611 Bible Scan

"You shall not kindle a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath day."
- New American Standard Version (1995)

Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.
- American Standard Version (1901)

No fire is to be lighted in any of your houses on the Sabbath day.
- Basic English Bible

Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your dwellings upon the sabbath day.
- Darby Bible

Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath-day.
- Webster's Bible

You shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations on the Sabbath day.'"
- World English Bible

ye do not burn a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath-day.'
- Youngs Literal Bible

Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.'
- Jewish Publication Society Bible

:bnghd:

I give up dude...

To All the Christians out there.... Im not a Christian

But there is no reason any of you need to keep to the rules and regulations of the Judaic faith...

Give it a try though... Been there done that....

Its not easy... though it will definitely test your resilience... and you'll be looking for a way out in no time.

In the end, Jesus is the way

reply to post by Akragon

Poor, dear, Akragon,

It gets tough sometimes, doesn't it? I was too tired (or cowardly) to get involved in this thread, so I'm relatively fresh. Why don't you unload half of your frustration on me. I can take it, besides, it might save any further damage to that brick wall. (What will we do when they switch over to the new smileys?)

My two favorite answers are "Yes and no," and "It depends." Either one seems applicable here. I've forgotten if you're married, but if you're not, let's assume that you are. (And it's much less expensive to get a divorce in an assumed marriage.)

You come home, and your wife looks a mess. Grease, floppy hair, torn clothes, a smoky smell, the whole business. She explains that the mechanic told her the car needed an oil change and to please you, she learned how to do it herself, but got caught under the car and had to wriggle free. In the middle of that she heard a scream and saw smoke coming out of a neighbor's window. She ran over, threw baking soda on the grease fire, dragged the unconscious neighbor outdoors and revived her before the ambulance could arrive.

You look at her and say, "Sweetheart, you are the most beautiful woman in the world. I love you and would be proud to take you anywhere just as you are." Only the coldest, least romantic person would say you are breaking the commandment against lying. Even then, they would be wrong. You would be telling an even greater truth, a truer truth, and fulfilling the commandment more completely.

That's what I think Jesus did.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952


Well there comes a point in some conversations where one can clearly see NOTHING is getting through...

and I see no point talking to a brick wall... I pointed out that One is not allowed to start a fire on the Sabbath if he/she is trying to keep it according to the bible... He preceded to call me a Pharisee... then posted 10 different versions of the bible that say exactly what I said... then he calls me a Pharisee again!!

Makes my head hurt when clueless people insist they are correct...

Yes Jesus came along and basically revamped the rules... but as I've said numerous times, the rules that the law givers held to remained in effect until a few hundred years later... Jesus was Executed for breaking the law... and he routinely broke the law.

Perhaps he was giving better ones... or laws that hold more truth then the OT could provide... the fact is TPTB at the time didn't think so... and to this day Jews don't think so either... they hold to their laws and reject Jesus...

Now IF Jesus was in fact a jew... that makes him a really bad jew... he changed the rules and broke their laws...

and IF you look over the two previous pages... you will see where im coming from

reply to post by Akragon

Dear Akragon,

I know you haven't asked for it, or want it, but you have my sympathy. I really was wondering what the point of the Biblical thesaurus lesson was. I'll ship you a bottle of Aspirin (or Scotch, your call).

I think I understand your usage of a couple of key words, and given that, I agree with you completely. There were only two judges for Jesus to face, one, the Jewish establishment and courts, two, His Father. You're quite right that the Jewish authorities labeled him a "bad Jew." I don't know what the controversy is about.

Unless, maybe, people are thinking that you are calling Him a bad man who was a Jew?

Wait a second, another thought. Might they be reacting to seeing "Jesus" and "Bad" in close juxtaposition and jumping to a conclusion?

Although, I still think that one of His tasks was to show how to keep the laws more perfectly, but I don't think that's the quagmire that you and other posters find yourselves in.

I wonder, as another side thought, if ATS lowers life expectancy through raised blood pressure.

With respect,
Charles1952

Originally posted by Akragon
:bnghd:

I give up dude...

To All the Christians out there.... Im not a Christian

But there is no reason any of you need to keep to the rules and regulations of the Judaic faith...

Give it a try though... Been there done that....

Its not easy... though it will definitely test your resilience... and you'll be looking for a way out in no time.

In the end, Jesus is the way

Poor, dear, Akragon,
You think you are so wise.

Jerws cant cook cos they cant light fires on the sabbath?
Sadly for you, the law teaches that fires cant be kindled in homes,nothing mentioned about outside.
Your comment from above "IF you're not allowed to start a fire... how would you cook anything? "
Simple, by cooking outside.