Evolution Vs. God

Originally posted by ServantOfTheLamb

Originally posted by tachyonmind
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math proves that nothing is random.. you are correct in saying mathematics can't explain "why" creation exists, it can only describe "how" it exists..

edit on 29-8-2013 by tachyonmind because: (no reason given)

Math does not have a will. Math did not cause all of the occurrences of the big bang and cause them to lead to life on earth, as you said it only describes them, and therefore the events are still random in that they just so happen to cause life on earth. If nothing is random everything was made with purpose, then that idea points to the idea of a creator

edit on 29-8-2013 by ServantOfTheLamb because: (no reason given)

not exactly, it simply points to creation being guided by force.. a "creator" only comes into it when you want to define a start point or origin.. (i.e. the sun is the "creator" of the earth's light, your parents are the "creators" of you etc..)

reply to post by TinfoilTP

Instead of a theory for how things are, evolution is a theory of how God is not. The perfect example of man's sin.

The theory of evolution is completely compatible with theism. It only excludes God in the minds of the most fundamentalist.

Originally posted by tachyonmind

The purification of Israel is referring to the 70th week of Daniel(Tribulation), and at the end of that Jesus will claim Davids throne. I can also make a pretty strong case for the rapture occurring within the next seven years and even possibly as early as 2015.

here we go again with the strictly literal interpretation.. jesus is back already, sorting out his throne, it ain't going to be in israel though, that was only the holy land last time he was here.. the people of the time of course interpreted everything to only be applicable to them, and therefore wrote about only their land and their people being the "chosen"..

the rapture is a metaphor, it's not a literal description of what is going to happen.. people will not literally rise into the air and meet the Lord as fundamentalist christians believe.. they will elevate their consciousness.. the rapture has already begun, and nobody is going to be "left behind"..

edit on 29-8-2013 by tachyonmind because: (no reason given)

I suppose we will see if I am right in a few years, however, I really would prefer not to have to say I told you so on something so important. Again the fact that the Bible has predicted the future many times, and is in the process of it now(Isaiah 17) and the Syrian conflict, and this will most likely lead to Ezekiel 38. If God is real, which I believe he is, a literal interpretation of the Bible is the only one that makes sense. While I agree somethings are metaphorical, the rapture is not one of them.

Ezekiel 38 might not kick off until 2014 based on some other prophecies. I have seen God work just as most other Christians, and this is more than enough proof to me that he created the universe, and quit honestly it doesnt matter how he did it and whether we agree on it

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

Thank you! And yet here you are saying your argument is baseless yet it's shoved down kids throats for years! It's destroyed a sense of morality because they like not having any moral absolutes. They like lying, greed, lust, adultery, and since they have been taught they are just animals then why not shoot people for the fun of it. Why not rape little 14 year old girls and say she was mature for her age and wanted it as just happened recently and the teacher got his 30yr sentence dropped to nothing! Yeh, tell me how well this society has turned out with survival of the fittest!

This is what it really boils down to for you. It has nothing to do with whether or not the science is valid, you simply don't like the way society has turned out and you're looking for a scapegoat. As much as you like to pretend you're a freethinker, you've been brainwashed by the fundamentalists that evolution is the root of all evil, that it's used to "disprove" the existence of God, and so forth and so on.

Never mind that Christians have always been and continue to be the vast majority in the United States, so your scenario would require that somehow three hundred million or so people fell asleep at the wheel and let evil evolution take over the country.

Never mind that your scenario would also require all of the theistic scientists to ignore that all of the evidence supporting evolution had been fabricated and that they would then allow the kind of scientific pogrom against the dissenters to take place.

Continue to work backwards from your conclusions.

* Evolution is not a "belief system", it's part of science. And as part of science (any science!) it's open to adaption, revision and change. Unlike religion "taught" from 1000 year old books.

* An "evolutionist community" does not exit

* Neither the word "evolutionist".

The two above phrases were invented by you guys in an attempt to set both equal, by using words making science/the theory of evolution into another another -ISM.

The irony is that while you increasingly use the words "evolutionism" and "evolutionists", and now even "evolutionist community"

I suppose we will see if I am right in a few years, however, I really would prefer not to have to say I told you so on something so important. Again the fact that the Bible has predicted the future many times, and is in the process of it now(Isaiah 17) and the Syrian conflict, and this will most likely lead to Ezekiel 38. If God is real, which I believe he is, a literal interpretation of the Bible is the only one that makes sense. While I agree somethings are metaphorical, the rapture is not one of them.

if God is real, then there is no way he is exclusively described in one book written by one population during one period of history.. there is truth in the bible, but also a lot of artistic license.. as for the rapture, if you just look around the world it shouldn't be too hard to figure out where it's starting to happen, and the peoples whom are being "lifted up"..

Ezekiel 38 might not kick off until 2014 based on some other prophecies. I have seen God work just as most other Christians, and this is more than enough proof to me that he created the universe, and quit honestly it doesnt matter how he did it and whether we agree on it

while i agree that God, as defined theistically, is the creator of the universe, i do not agree that the bible is the only book of His work and prophecy.. you can relate almost any story or vision in the bible to an actual historical event, true, but it does not conclusively prove that all events described did in fact occur, or will occur, literally as described..

the book of ezekiel is a record a man's visions of God, what he took from those visions is not necessarily what God was intending, after all, the book is frequently at odds with the five books of moses from the torah..

Originally posted by iterationzero
reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

 

Thank you! And yet here you are saying your argument is baseless yet it's shoved down kids throats for years! It's destroyed a sense of morality because they like not having any moral absolutes. They like lying, greed, lust, adultery, and since they have been taught they are just animals then why not shoot people for the fun of it. Why not rape little 14 year old girls and say she was mature for her age and wanted it as just happened recently and the teacher got his 30yr sentence dropped to nothing! Yeh, tell me how well this society has turned out with survival of the fittest!

This is what it really boils down to for you. It has nothing to do with whether or not the science is valid, you simply don't like the way society has turned out and you're looking for a scapegoat. As much as you like to pretend you're a freethinker, you've been brainwashed by the fundamentalists that evolution is the root of all evil, that it's used to "disprove" the existence of God, and so forth and so on.

Never mind that Christians have always been and continue to be the vast majority in the United States, so your scenario would require that somehow three hundred million or so people fell asleep at the wheel and let evil evolution take over the country.

Man Christians don't get on here and try to argue evolution with you because the fact is there are facts on both sides of the argument, and gaps on both sides of the argument. At the end of the day people pick a side they believe. Christians get on here because they truly believe that God will rapture his church one day, and they do not want you to miss out. That is why they come on here, and we do not believe that we will be the ones the change your mind.

Man Christians don't get on here and try to argue evolution with you because the fact is there are facts on both sides of the argument, and gaps on both sides of the argument. At the end of the day people pick a side they believe. Christians get on here because they truly believe that God will rapture his church one day, and they do not want you to miss out. That is why they come on here, and we do not believe that we will be the ones the change your mind.

i just don't understand why they can't believe in both..

why can't a person be an atheistic jewish christian buddhist existential scientist, who believes in everything? isn't that what religion is supposed to teach, that all of God's children are equal and right?

oh wait, that's right, the great evil satan is in control of those who learn from anything else.. thanks for doing that to us abrahamic religion.. xD

Well, once again a misunderstanding based on no conception of theology.

I've been studying theology as a time passer for 28 years, off and on, actually. I'm just waiting for the Jerusalem Talmud BS you're about to post.

According to the Jerusalem Talmud (Chag. 77,4), Heli was actually Mary’s father making him Joseph’s f...

Right on queue. Adorably consistent.

The Jerusalem Talmud, talmud meaning "instruction", "learning", (Hebrew: תַּלְמוּד יְרוּשָׁלְמִי, Talmud Yerushalmi, often Yerushalmi for short), is a collection of Rabbinic notes on the 2nd-century Mishnah (Jewish oral tradition) which was compiled in the Land of Israel during the 4th-5th centuries

in the Land of Israel during the 4th-5th centuries

4th-5th centuries

In other words, "500 years later, suddenly we have data on this".

She also needed a direct descendant of Solomon to perfect her son’s claim to the throne of David, since Nathan’s descendants weren’t of the Royal line.

Technically he would have no claim to the throne as an adopted son unless the previous monarch gave direct consent of such. I think it's kind of ridiculous that you find it more likely that Jesus is the son of God and not Joseph in an incident where they would've had to say that to avoid being stoned to death after Joseph got her knocked up out of wedlock.

Thus, because of the virgin birth, Jesus became the only one in Israel qualified to sit on David’s throne, and remains so to this day.

Qualified? Sort of, but not permissed. Even if by some crazy miracle he did come back in some rapture event he would still need validation from the previous monarch to claim the throne, which he does not have. Adopted children in monarchies aren't automatically assimilated into the bloodline; it doesn't work like that.

The purification of Israel is referring to the 70th week of Daniel(Tribulation), and at the end of that Jesus will claim Davids throne. I can also make a pretty strong case for the rapture occurring within the next seven years and even possibly as early as 2015.

Hah. Haven't we all been hearing these stories for decades? I'll tell you what, we meet back here in 7 years so we can both laugh about your little prediction. And, of course, listen to your new prediction. As the cycle has been for the past thousands of years.

Here is another one for you to attempt to butcher
The Prophecy of the destruction of trye?

All of those predictions happened so far apart from eachother it would be a huge stretch to try and link them to the same prophecy. Some of it was fulfilled in what is commonly believed to be a few years of the prediction by Nebuchadnezzar, who I'm not apt to believe had zero communication with Ezekiel as opposed to prophesied this whole ordeal. The remainder of what wasn't accomplished in the siege took place by Alexander the Great nearly a century later. The picture that Ezekiel paints of the destruction isn't exactly accurate to how it looked at any given time.

Originally posted by ServantOfTheLamb
I suppose we will see if I am right in a few years, however, I really would prefer not to have to say I told you so on something so important.

Oooh, cute. Showing how fear is the basis of your faith.

Amazing how many more followers Christianity got than Judaism.

Must just be a coincidence that Christianity constantly goes on about eternal flames and torture for not believing whereas Judaism does not.

Scare them into compliance.

I remember having nightmares of Hell when I was a child from all of the scripturally-opressed elderly harpies in my life. I honestly think that describing this fiction to children in such vivid detail should be outlawed and considered child abuse.

It blows my mind that you can legally tell your 5-year-old child that if they are disobedient then their flesh will be seared from their bodies over and over again for an eternity. It's seriously sick.

Originally posted by edmc^2

I think Mr. Comfort is telling the truth when he said there's nothing really there to add.
What we saw in the interview is the main course.

What were the chances you'd be in here defending 'Mr Comfort'....

I think OP should sit down and read a book cover to cover that explains evolution properly. Evolution is mutation, and mutation that migrates to areas that it can adapt to. Not all humans can walk around at -30 degrees outside without a coat on but I can do it along as many others. It's part of adaptability. Some people can't stand cold, some people can't stand warmth. Evolution is more about these slight differences in our genetic makeup over a long period of time (think generations of breeding and creating more of that breed of species with similar DNA).

A hummingbird that has a mutation where its beak can drink nectar from a deeper than usual flower might end up breeding and making more of those kinds of humming birds. Eventually you get a long beaked humming bird.

Humans did the same thing. We ended up having black and white, brown and everything in-between. tall and short thick or skinny (if you know what I mean). Evolution is something that is a scientific fact (no longer a theory) however the theory of our origin isn't conclusive yet because there are just a few more tiny little holes to fill. Once those holes are filled, which many estimate will be found later this decade, there's nothing religion can say against evolution but religion is about believing in a set of things no matter if it makes logical sense or not. Logic is something you have to throw out the window when you believe in religion and those that I've argued over religion before they have all said that logic doesn't belong in religion because it's a belief system that tests your faith in GOD.

Now, no matter how many posts there are here about evolution vs god or what have you, it will never ever end because those that believe in religion will believe whatever they want to believe. I know christians whom believe in evolution because they believe soemthing created the multiverse. You don't have to throw away god just because science has proven that the earth isn't flat and it's been around for more than just a few thousand years.

Evolution proposes that one thing can evolve into something else, a fish into a toad or a monkey into a man. There is no observable proof of this, nor in the fossil record, so it isn't true science.

Adaptation is different where any species may grow larger, smaller, skinny, darker, more hairy, etc. based upon environmental conditions. But they don't change species.

Originally posted by Prezbo369

Originally posted by edmc^2

I think Mr. Comfort is telling the truth when he said there's nothing really there to add.
What we saw in the interview is the main course.

What were the chances you'd be in here defending 'Mr Comfort'....

why are so wrap up with Mr. Comfort?

Im not here to defend him but defend Creation.

Originally posted by edmc^2

Originally posted by Prezbo369

Originally posted by edmc^2

I think Mr. Comfort is telling the truth when he said there's nothing really there to add.
What we saw in the interview is the main course.

What were the chances you'd be in here defending 'Mr Comfort'....

why are so wrap up with Mr. Comfort?

Im not here to defend him but defend Creation.

Probably because that is the entire basis of this thread....a video that Comfort made.

Originally posted by Vasa Croe

Originally posted by edmc^2

Originally posted by Prezbo369

Originally posted by edmc^2

I think Mr. Comfort is telling the truth when he said there's nothing really there to add.
What we saw in the interview is the main course.

What were the chances you'd be in here defending 'Mr Comfort'....

why are so wrap up with Mr. Comfort?

Im not here to defend him but defend Creation.

Probably because that is the entire basis of this thread....a video that Comfort made.

Ummm... No.

It's about Evolution vs. God.

Why are you people so wrapped up with Mr. Comfort?

Do you find comfort in attacking the man?

Originally posted by Jahari
I like the video but I don't like the Christian spin. Just because someone believes in intelligent design does not mean he or she has to be Christian. More propaganda to push his agenda. Thats what separates believers of evolution and the believers of creation. Evolutionist fall under one flag for the most part. This flag is science. It crosses cultural boundaries. However as a creationist like it was show in the video someone can place their own theological belief on it. I'm sure there's muslim, christian, jewish, buddist and other religion creationist. Why muddy the waters.

I say we as creationist need to throw out or start to look past whatever our parents indoctrinated us with and start to see god in the light "I feel" he should be seen....as universal.

I appreciate your comments and can understand where you are coming from. I sort of cringed when he went into the proselytizing mode, but then I felt bad for cringing. I am a messianic believer, and I have shared my understandings with others, and been blessed with leading them in prayer to trust Jesus and ask him to be their Lord and Savior, but I did think that aspect of the documentary would turn people off.

I mean, everything he is asking shows the doubts within them so much. They freely admit that it's really based on faith, and not scientific methods of observing and proving something, though they still believe it. That to me is the best part of the documentary. Evolution is a guess, it's an idea, it makes sense on the surface, but when you dig to prove it, none of the things Darwin said needed to prove it are there.

I think people desperately want to say it's science and they know the proof is not there, but rather than just say, we can't find any of the species changing from one kind to another, they act like it's all settled. At least it appeared these people were willing to admit it's not proved.

reply to post by Fromabove


We have seen speciation occur. In fact just recently we discovered a new genus. So what is the mechanism that prevents these mutations from accruing to the point that we get "macroevolution?" So far no one has been able to point to such a mechanism. They instead keep going off on some non sequitur or spouting lies they have been told are wrong.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


Provide an operational definition of kind. You and others keep using this vague term without providing a definition. As a result it allows you to keep moving the goal posts. So go ahead and tell us what a kind is. If I remember correctly the Bible says birds and bats are the same kind and yet these are drastically different species.

reply to post by LightOrange


Great video for micro evolution but they are still salamanders. This is the problem I have with those who say it proves evolution. Show me that newt coming from a frog or turning into a new kind of animal. Finches are still finches and salamanders are still salamanders.

I call it adaptation and natural selection which has never been in question, it's the idea that they came from sludge millions of years ago that is not proven. Show me one incrementally changing species into another over millions of years. The fossils don't show it, and you can't observe it so it's not science.