Evolution Vs. God

reply to post by Vasa Croe

Well I guess since Pew Research shows up quite a few times referenced in the wiki I quoted then I should discount your "research" as well? There were 7 references to them in my source link. If you discount one I guess you discount all?

Oh ya? Then how in the heck did you come to this ridiculous conclusion??

Looks like Creation is in the minority, even in most other widely accepted religions.....

I quoted pew’s stats….

Christians make up about the same portion of the world’s population today (32%) as they did a century ago (35%).

Taken as a whole, Christians are still by far the world’s largest religious group. Muslims, the second-largest group, make up a little less than a quarter of the world’s population.

Your wiki stats don’t jive!

I don't even know what you're trying to prove.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

Now they are demanding the cut pieces that the documentary is made from. They don't demand this sort of footage from other works, yet they are trying to imply the documentary is leaving out things that would prove their theory. The Blaze has an article up about this documentary and the controversy it has created. I will post that below the documentary.

Perhaps because Ray Comfort is a notorious and unabashed quote-miner? From his own book, Evolution: A Fairy Tale For Grownups:

This book will no doubt be seen by some as "quote mining." This is the practice of taking a quote (often out of its context), and using it in a way that was never intended by the author. However, every gold nugget is legitimately mined out of its context. No one seriously values the earth that encases the gold. So, when I uncover an evolutionary expert quietly admitting that he has no evidence to back up his theory, I don't see any value in the soil of his surrounding words. I merely extract what I believe is of value for those who want to discover the truth about the theory of evolution.

He's admitting to engaging in intellectual dishonesty. I feel compelled to give him the same treatment...

... I believe ... the theory of evolution.

Ray Comfort

There you have it, fellow ATSers! Ray Comfort admits, in his own words, that he is a proponent of the theory of evolution! Case closed.

reply to post by Grimpachi


Well, that's a rather simplistic video and you do find fossils outside of their place in the geological table which I have shown elsewhere that the geological time table is a circular argument. They say, the table tells us the age of the fossils and the fossils tell us the age of the table. Thus some person digging in the ground finds X known fossil and says, because it's this fossil this is from X period. Then they start dating tests and get wildly different dates and throw out the ones that don't match their table and voila, it's proven from this time period!

Note that things found in the same space coming from other accepted periods of time are discarded as anomalies! Let's not ask the question of why would you find a modern horse skeleton in a table that says they did not exist yet. Let's just line up similar looking fossils, and say they are from this time and that time and then present it to the world as fact when it's been proven not to be accurate.

He talks about primitive mollusks. He shows the famed trilobite, which has anything but a primitive eye. Where my dear is the one with the not so advanced eye evolving into an advance eye? Did you know they find trilobites alive today? Oh, they name em something else, but it's the same species. Please show me evidence of one animal KIND evolving into another kind. Darwin's finches adapt, but they are still finches. Please show me a bird becoming something other than a bird. Since it takes billions of years for this then surely there is evidence of that change happening incrementally.

The documentary I posted demonstrates that per science you have to be able to observe the theory in action and the macro-evolution cannot be observed and thus is accepted on faith. They have every right to believe it, but they cannot prove it via observation.

Originally posted by UnifiedSerenity

Originally posted by Vasa Croe
Are we really going to have to put up with a Soapbox thread on creation from you EVERY week? The fact that the creationists are constantly pushing this on ATS tells me that they are just itching to push their belief system on everyone, just as good Christians are supposed to do....push and push and push. While it may be your god's will, I have my own will. I have a mind and logic of my own. Creation is rubbish....please quit starting a thread on the same dead horse every week when you need more S&F's or just feel that you need to spew the word of your god.

I share things that I am passionate about, and the topic of Evolution vs. Creation is obviously one of them. If you hate this so much, then why do you even read them? It must just frost your wheaties so much that this sort of thing is being posted. I look at my thread as sort of my home. If you know you hate my views why would you enter it? I am not running into your home going nuts about your posts, and even if i do visit a thread you make, I don't belittle you for sharing your thoughts and making a thread. I have a choice to enter the topic or not.

I bet you are pro-choice. I suggest you start taking responsibilities for your choices and not blame me for exercising my right to share my views on a forum titled "Origins & Creation Conspiracy". I know lots of ATS members who avoid the Religion forum and this one.

I am not one to avoid much. I come on these posts to see if there is anything new being talked about....in your case there has not been. I am not belittling you and I am not in your home....I am on a thread on ATS.

As far as being pro-choice...really doesn't matter to me...has nothing to do with the topic. Not sure how me taking responsibility for my choice has anything to do with this either.....I did take responsibility and posted that I am tired of your same posts regurgitating the same material every week.

Well, that was a massive waste of my time.

First half of the "documentary" he insists that people show him observable evidence of something becoming another "kind". A process that by definition takes millions/10s of millions of years. He dismisses the fossil record because you need to have "faith" to "believe" into it. Nobody brings up genetics.

Then there's an absurd part about famous atheists (why it's even relative?). That pretty much ends on the notion that if you're an atheist, you end up offing yourself like Hemingway.

The other half has nothing to do with evolution. We take the observation that stuff exists as a definite proof of the Christian God and the rest is your typical boring Christian preaching about Jesus and whatnot that makes me turn my brains off.

Hey OP, come comment in my genetic code thread. It's all about observable facts..

edit. on "kinds", somehow all birds are bird "kind" and all felines and feline "kind" but not all apes (this includes humans obviously) are ape "kind" because ??

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by Vasa Croe

 

Well I guess since Pew Research shows up quite a few times referenced in the wiki I quoted then I should discount your "research" as well? There were 7 references to them in my source link. If you discount one I guess you discount all?

Oh ya? Then how in the heck did you come to this ridiculous conclusion??

Looks like Creation is in the minority, even in most other widely accepted religions.....

I quoted pew’s stats….

Christians make up about the same portion of the world’s population today (32%) as they did a century ago (35%).

Taken as a whole, Christians are still by far the world’s largest religious group. Muslims, the second-largest group, make up a little less than a quarter of the world’s population.

Your wiki stats don’t jive!

I don't even know what you're trying to prove.

you seem to be under the impression that christianity=belief in creationism

ill help you out
not all christians believe in creationism.... and in fact many are somewhat reasonable people who believe evolution makes a lot of sense ..... their belief is that evolution does not disprove a god and that evolution was part of gods design........ this is much more reasonable (i dont prescribe to the idea but i cant disprove it either) than creationism which can largely be disproved through physical evidence

reply to post by seabag

That’s a lot of people who believe in creation.

You're erroneously conflating theists with creationists. If, in the United States alone, the vast majority of people are theists of one sort or another and at least 40% of the population are proponents of the theory of evolution, there's a pretty significant number of theists running around where those two circles overlap on the Venn diagram.

reply to post by Vasa Croe


I posted a video I think has merit. You don't like it. So, there you go. You want me to not share things I find and I think that is not what ATS is about. You have every right to disagree with my views, but I have a right to share what I find as do you. I don't tell you not to make a thread, in fact, why don't you just go make a thread and have lots of fun managing it.

I may or may not pop into it. I certainly won't tell you not to post it.

reply to post by sirhumperdink


You said it better than I could. This was precisely my point.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


Yes it was a very simple video there was no need to jump through hoops to prove the point. No mental gymnastics or off topic comments unlike yours.


How many times are you going to use the same tired arguments. The eyes well lets see I am sure I have seen you use that argument somewhere.

Originally posted by peter vlar

Originally posted by UnifiedSerenity

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg

Oh dear god, where do I even start...
Ok. The eye is the standard creationist 'But, but, goddidit!!!' fall back position, and it always gets trotted out at some point. Very well. There no such thing as half an eye. There is just a light sensing collection of cells that gets better and better at doing what it does.
Next thing you're going to say is 'If Darwin was so great why didn't he win a Nobel prize for evolution'? Whereupon lips will curl.

edit on 26-8-2013 by AngryCymraeg because: (no reason given)

By your logic the eye should evolve and yet Trilobite has extremely advanced eyes and there is NOTHING in the fossil record showing this slowly progressing evolving eye! In fact, millions of species just showed up during the Cambrian explosion, and Darwin knew this was his Achilles heel in his theory.

Maybe we crazy creationists bring up the eye problem because it does cause evolution to fall flat on it's face!

The world of denial you live in is fascinating to me. I found it a rather nice touch that you utilize a trilobite, with compound eyes, as your answer to why evolution can't be real. because human eyes are exactly the same as those of an arthropod with compound eyes. Curiosity implores me to ask this then... how do you explain how trilobites had 3 different types of eyes. why wouldn't your all knowing friends in the sky just make one type? throwing poor Darwin under the bus doesn't add to your cause in any fashion. Darwin was step 1 in understanding the course of history. 154 years later science is a little beyond what he was capable of understanding and as we increase our understanding we adjust our notions of the world. Yes, Darwin had issues with the origins of the eye but that was a century and a half ago, those notions are dispelled. well except by you and your plethora of religions blogs to back up your naïve assertions.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by UnifiedSerenity
This recent short documentary is really upsetting the evolutionist community. I found it an excellent example of listening to the evolution believers as they try to explain evolution and that it's a belief system. Their cognitive dissonance is quite amazing to watch in progress. I can see why this is really upsetting the Darwinian fans.

Now they are demanding the cut pieces that the documentary is made from. They don't demand this sort of footage from other works, yet they are trying to imply the documentary is leaving out things that would prove their theory. The Blaze has an article up about this documentary and the controversy it has created. I will post that below the documentary.

The Blaze Article

Yes, please do show us the observable change in kind and since you cannot observe 60 million years ago, please show it happening today. Finches are still finches, fish are still fish, and bacteria are still bacteria.

Funny how they are demanding to release the full interview. What are expecting to find?

reply to post by edmc^2


Yeah...because Ray Comfort has no agenda right?

In November 2009, Comfort released an edited version of Charles Darwin's On the Origin of Species, with a 50-page foreword detailing creationist arguments against the theory of evolution.[19] Stan Guffey, a biologist at the University of Tennessee, has alleged that most of Comfort's section on Darwin's life was plagiarised from his work. The book was given away for free at selected schools around the United States.

According to Comfort's website, "Nothing has been removed from Darwin's original work", but Eugenie C. Scott, executive director of the National Center for Science Education, noted that Comfort deleted four chapters by Darwin that described the evidence for evolution, adding that two of the omitted chapters, Chapters 11 and 12, showcase biogeography, some of Darwin's strongest evidence for evolution. She wrote that Comfort's foreword is "a hopeless mess of long-ago-refuted creationist arguments, teeming with misinformation about the science of evolution, populated by legions of strawmen, and exhibiting what can be charitably described as muddled thinking."

Kind of like his video, he is KNOWN for editing in order to further his agenda.....why look at the whole picture when you can just look at the part that makes you look right.....right?

Originally posted by Vasa Croe
reply to post by edmc^2

 

Yeah...because Ray Comfort has no agenda right?

In November 2009, Comfort released an edited version of Charles Darwin's On the Origin of Species, with a 50-page foreword detailing creationist arguments against the theory of evolution.[19] Stan Guffey, a biologist at the University of Tennessee, has alleged that most of Comfort's section on Darwin's life was plagiarised from his work. The book was given away for free at selected schools around the United States.

According to Comfort's website, "Nothing has been removed from Darwin's original work", but Eugenie C. Scott, executive director of the National Center for Science Education, noted that Comfort deleted four chapters by Darwin that described the evidence for evolution, adding that two of the omitted chapters, Chapters 11 and 12, showcase biogeography, some of Darwin's strongest evidence for evolution. She wrote that Comfort's foreword is "a hopeless mess of long-ago-refuted creationist arguments, teeming with misinformation about the science of evolution, populated by legions of strawmen, and exhibiting what can be charitably described as muddled thinking."

Kind of like his video, he is KNOWN for editing in order to further his agenda.....why look at the whole picture when you can just look at the part that makes you look right.....right?

So you're admitting that Mr. Comfort made the Atheist/evolutionist look foolish and somehow bamboozled them into admitting that they don't have any proof of evolution?

Is that what you're admitting to?

reply to post by edmc^2

But Ray Comfort is an evolutionist! I've shown it using his own words!

Originally posted by edmc^2

Originally posted by Vasa Croe
reply to post by edmc^2

 

Yeah...because Ray Comfort has no agenda right?

In November 2009, Comfort released an edited version of Charles Darwin's On the Origin of Species, with a 50-page foreword detailing creationist arguments against the theory of evolution.[19] Stan Guffey, a biologist at the University of Tennessee, has alleged that most of Comfort's section on Darwin's life was plagiarised from his work. The book was given away for free at selected schools around the United States.

According to Comfort's website, "Nothing has been removed from Darwin's original work", but Eugenie C. Scott, executive director of the National Center for Science Education, noted that Comfort deleted four chapters by Darwin that described the evidence for evolution, adding that two of the omitted chapters, Chapters 11 and 12, showcase biogeography, some of Darwin's strongest evidence for evolution. She wrote that Comfort's foreword is "a hopeless mess of long-ago-refuted creationist arguments, teeming with misinformation about the science of evolution, populated by legions of strawmen, and exhibiting what can be charitably described as muddled thinking."

Kind of like his video, he is KNOWN for editing in order to further his agenda.....why look at the whole picture when you can just look at the part that makes you look right.....right?

So you're admitting that Mr. Comfort made the Atheist/evolutionist look foolish and somehow bamboozled them into admitting that they don't have any proof of evolution?

Is that what you're admitting to?

Nope...editing is done for a reason. Not sure why he is getting all worked up over people asking him to release the footage....is he afraid his scam of editing will be revealed as it was on his books?

Are YOU saying that you don't care to look at ALL of the recorded video, only that which leans towards a conclusion you have already come to because you think it to be true? By all means...keep your eyes down and head in the sand....don't ever push for more or question anything right?

That is very supportive of the creationist line of thought....

Originally posted by iterationzero
reply to post by edmc^2

 

But Ray Comfort is an evolutionist! I've shown it using his own words!

Hmmm interesting, so in your analogy Mr. Comfort is an evolutionist trying to convince people that life was created by God and accept Jesus as savior. At the same time trying to prove to all that evolution is a lie - bunk. Wow!

That's an achievement!

reply to post by Grimpachi


I'm still waiting for those points to be addressed in the other thread. I was hoping to see something a little different in this one but its really the same argument and talking points with a different title. I keep hoping though.

Originally posted by Vasa Croe

Originally posted by edmc^2

Originally posted by Vasa Croe
reply to post by edmc^2

 

Yeah...because Ray Comfort has no agenda right?

In November 2009, Comfort released an edited version of Charles Darwin's On the Origin of Species, with a 50-page foreword detailing creationist arguments against the theory of evolution.[19] Stan Guffey, a biologist at the University of Tennessee, has alleged that most of Comfort's section on Darwin's life was plagiarised from his work. The book was given away for free at selected schools around the United States.

According to Comfort's website, "Nothing has been removed from Darwin's original work", but Eugenie C. Scott, executive director of the National Center for Science Education, noted that Comfort deleted four chapters by Darwin that described the evidence for evolution, adding that two of the omitted chapters, Chapters 11 and 12, showcase biogeography, some of Darwin's strongest evidence for evolution. She wrote that Comfort's foreword is "a hopeless mess of long-ago-refuted creationist arguments, teeming with misinformation about the science of evolution, populated by legions of strawmen, and exhibiting what can be charitably described as muddled thinking."

Kind of like his video, he is KNOWN for editing in order to further his agenda.....why look at the whole picture when you can just look at the part that makes you look right.....right?

So you're admitting that Mr. Comfort made the Atheist/evolutionist look foolish and somehow bamboozled them into admitting that they don't have any proof of evolution?

Is that what you're admitting to?

Nope...editing is done for a reason. Not sure why he is getting all worked up over people asking him to release the footage....is he afraid his scam of editing will be revealed as it was on his books?

Are YOU saying that you don't care to look at ALL of the recorded video, only that which leans towards a conclusion you have already come to because you think it to be true? By all means...keep your eyes down and head in the sand....don't ever push for more or question anything right?

That is very supportive of the creationist line of thought....

As far as I know from the interview with The Blaze - he said, there was nothing really there to see.

Funny thing is even the evolutionist had to admit there's no observable evidence of one kind turning into another kind. If there was one I must have missed it.

Originally posted by iterationzero
reply to post by seabag

 

That’s a lot of people who believe in creation.

You're erroneously conflating theists with creationists. If, in the United States alone, the vast majority of people are theists of one sort or another and at least 40% of the population are proponents of the theory of evolution, there's a pretty significant number of theists running around where those two circles overlap on the Venn diagram.

Fair enough.

I guess in the grand scheme of things it really doesn't matter how many believe in either scenario. My beliefs aren't based or dependent on the majority view.

reply to post by edmc^2


Of course he will say there was nothing really there to see....it is his video with his agenda.

Like I said before...I guess you don't care to dig for anything or check facts as long as it goes along with your belief. I would think that creationists would also be pushing him to release it all to prove their point but that does not seem to be the case.

So again I will ask you...do you not care to see anything to the contrary? Comfort has already outed as editing his books in order to promote his agenda. He has no response for that either.