Thoughts about people claiming alien contact

reply to post by Ectoplasm8


I am currently forming my own Internet debunking team. I am looking for top notch debunkers to join me in my crusade to discredit all the alien lore. ...but I warn you, membership requirements are stringent. It will be the ultimate dream team of alien debunking....join me.
The above comment was meant in jest and was not a real offer. Had this been a real offer, it would have been conducted under complete secrecy via gmail or something

reply to post by ZetaRediculian


Membership cards?
A patch?
Monthly Newsletter?
Count me in please.

I used to be a debunker. Abductees are just hilarious joke material...

A lot of arrogance I let go of, was part of that.

Apparently that's a 'never say never' karmic return or something... may you guys be so spontaneously and unwillingly educated at some point in your future as well.

PS: It's so easy to scoff this stuff, to feel smugly superior (a lovely emotion), it's like kicking small furry animals -- where's the sport in that?

reply to post by RedCairo

Two words destroy it for me:
Crop Circles
I just can't carry on a serious discussion after that.

Originally posted by Ectoplasm8

Originally posted by g2v12
As I recall, I asked you to provide a list of books and authors you favor on the subject of UFOs and alien abduction. I'm still waiting.

Why list what I've read if you can simplify things by posting examples of your strongest physical evidence? Soil samples?

You don't have a list...LOL

Originally posted by g2v12

Originally posted by Ectoplasm8

Originally posted by g2v12
As I recall, I asked you to provide a list of books and authors you favor on the subject of UFOs and alien abduction. I'm still waiting.

Why list what I've read if you can simplify things by posting examples of your strongest physical evidence? Soil samples?

You don't have a list...LOL

Please lead me to some crop circle books. I'm very interested in that!

But seriously.... You lost me with CC buddy. You win!

Originally posted by RedCairo
I used to be a debunker. Abductees are just hilarious joke material...

PS: It's so easy to scoff this stuff, to feel smugly superior (a lovely emotion), it's like kicking small furry animals -- where's the sport in that?

I would say they have an inferiority complex. We used to call them "forum flies".

reply to post by RedCairo

PS: It's so easy to scoff this stuff, to feel smugly superior (a lovely emotion), it's like kicking small furry animals -- where's the sport in that?

Really? Do you want me to go off on how to make a sport out of kicking small furry animals? I'm not making fun abductees or believers, I just find it hilarious that there is a team of Internet alien debunkers. I'm making fun of debunking teams that takes 7 months to join.
1. Let me join: no.
2. Let me join: no.
3. Please: no,
4. now?: no.
5. How about n: no
6. Come on its been 6 months: no
7. Please, can I join you guys i know a lot about ufo stuff: well ok.

Originally posted by Ectoplasm8

Originally posted by g2v12

Originally posted by Ectoplasm8

Originally posted by g2v12
As I recall, I asked you to provide a list of books and authors you favor on the subject of UFOs and alien abduction. I'm still waiting.

Why list what I've read if you can simplify things by posting examples of your strongest physical evidence? Soil samples?

You don't have a list...LOL

Please lead me to some crop circle books.

I'm very interested in that!

Sorry, but you really don't have anything interesting to say.

Originally posted by ZetaRediculian
reply to post by RedCairo

 

PS: It's so easy to scoff this stuff, to feel smugly superior (a lovely emotion), it's like kicking small furry animals -- where's the sport in that?

Really? Do you want me to go off on how to make a sport out of kicking small furry animals? I'm not making fun abductees or believers, I just find it hilarious that there is a team of Internet alien debunkers. I'm making fun of debunking teams that takes 7 months to join.
1. Let me join: no.
2. Let me join: no.
3. Please: no,
4. now?: no.
5. How about n: no
6. Come on its been 6 months: no
7. Please, can I join you guys i know a lot about ufo stuff: well ok.

I'm impressed, now let's see if you can catch a Frisbee...go get it boy!

reply to post by g2v12

I would say they have an inferiority complex. We used to call them "forum flies".

I don't have an inferiority complex, I just found it hard to fit in with the cool kids growing up and now I like to kick small furry animals around for sport.

Originally posted by ZetaRediculian
reply to post by Ectoplasm8

 

I am currently forming my own Internet debunking team. I am looking for top notch debunkers to join me in my crusade to discredit all the alien lore. ...but I warn you, membership requirements are stringent. It will be the ultimate dream team of alien debunking....join me.
The above comment was meant in jest and was not a real offer. Had this been a real offer, it would have been conducted under complete secrecy via gmail or something

Oh, I didn't realize you're a debunker. I just thought you were just trying to get some attention.

Originally posted by ZetaRediculian
reply to post by g2v12

 

I would say they have an inferiority complex. We used to call them "forum flies".

I don't have an inferiority complex, I just found it hard to fit in with the cool kids growing up and now I like to kick small furry animals around for sport.

You just proved my point...LOL! I just love ironic comedy.

reply to post by g2v12

I'm impressed, now let's see if you can catch a Frisbee...go get it boy!

I'm not sure what that means but I am teaching my dog how to catch a frisbee! He caught 4 yesterday but we have a long way to go. Thanks for the happy thought.

Originally posted by ZetaRediculian
reply to post by g2v12

 

I'm impressed, now let's see if you can catch a Frisbee...go get it boy!

I'm not sure what that means but I am teaching my dog how to catch a frisbee! He caught 4 yesterday but we have a long way to go. Thanks for the happy thought.

You are entirely welcome. You wouldn't happen to be from Asia, would you?

Originally posted by RedCairo
I used to be a debunker. Abductees are just hilarious joke material...

A lot of arrogance I let go of, was part of that.

Apparently that's a 'never say never' karmic return or something... may you guys be so spontaneously and unwillingly educated at some point in your future as well.

PS: It's so easy to scoff this stuff, to feel smugly superior (a lovely emotion), it's like kicking small furry animals -- where's the sport in that?

Have you a journal to record your experiences?

The whole abductee thing is complicated. There's as much inconsistency as consistency with reports, and frankly some of the claims of contactees which get lumped in with abductees in the public consciousness. Claims of contact with an alien is contact whether willing or unwilling. Some of these claims seem so out there or ridiculous, whether true or not. It's hard for anyone to believe them, or take them seriously. The more of this there is, the more crazy it sounds. With that in mind, people are jerks, and you say things that sound crazy, you become an easy target. Is it right? No. But it's not completely 100% wrong either. I say not 100% because frankly, if anything anyone ever claimed was taken seriously, we'd be in a whole heap of doodoo. Which may be part of the point.

Let's look at the Sirius Project for example. It had a lot of good stuff in it. But frankly I'd say that none of it matters, and anything good it might have had to say was completely nullified by all the spiritual far out there stuff in the video. The communion with aliens and all that. Shoot, it might even be true, but it does not help in pulling people towards believing. Worst part is, it also is what draws the most attention. So while the ridicule is wrong, and while the crazier things might be true. The burden of proof is on the shoulders of the abductees and contactees, and as long as extreme claims from either side completely lacking in plausibility is all we see. Nothing is going to change without extreme irrefutable proof.

Can't tell you how to fix it. But it's the truth. Things like the Sirius Project is promoted as much as it was, and it has things in it like that, and frankly, even with what was good in it, it did more damage than it helped, because people see them all sitting around communing with aliens and they laugh at the ridiculousness of it. If it is happening, and there are aliens, they must be snickering too, because if there really are aliens, and they're on their side, well, they'd certainly have told them, that is neither the time or place for that. So I'm forced to think either they are crazy, or the aliens are definitely not what they claim they are.

Originally posted by RedCairo

(ZetaRediculian) On the Walton and Hill cases, we really don't know if they were asleep or a awake aside from the their own accounts, correct? Nobody witnessed Travis Walton going up into the UFO. They left him laying on the ground unconscious and drove away if I have the story correct.

I only know some about the Walton case, a brief clip on a documentary and a movie eons ago. After I commented on the movie online once someone told me he had a book, which I'd forgotten until now, I should get that. I have a great deal of trouble getting myself to read on the topic, although I really liked the Vallee books I've seen so far. Reading on it tends to focus me on it and I really only do that once in awhile, in a place like ATS for example. What little I saw of Walton's case had so much in common with some of my experiences I was more upset by that one than many of the others I saw referenced in passing on compuserve back in the day.

(ZetaRediculian) The Hills were driving late at night on an isolated road and pulled over when they saw the UFO. The people I know aren't all wide awake recording devices under these conditions. The possibility remains that they simply fell asleep like so many others under the same conditions. Why would this be unlikely?

Hmmn. Maybe. But why would they have pulled off the road to begin with (we assume they weren't sleeping while driving). And if a close sighting of a UFO is promptly followed by "falling asleep and dreaming an incredibly realistic abduction experience," then I think it'd be fair to consider that abduction experiences may have some state of mind overlap with delta frequencies that may be a valid part of the experience, whatever it may be -- and in any case that the two discrete experiences (awake UFO sighting, asleep alien abudction) might be related.

RedCairo, you make an excellent points above....
I just want to tell you how incredibly impressed I am by your accounts of your story...the open-mindedness as to varying possible explanations for your experiences and especially the self-analysis you have done thru-out that time period and continuing...
Question: You talked about not wanting any part of doing hypnosis on people for MUFON, am I correct in assuming that you never underwent hypnosis by anyone?

The reason I ask is because it seems to me that your story might be of significant 'value' in research circles due to the lack of sources (i.e. excessive reading on abductions and possible 'leading' by hypnotists) of memory 'taint' you have been exposed to.
In the (albeit amateur) research I've done, I have found that in comparing stories, abductees harboring such tainted memories become very obviously so - which then rules them out (to me) as valid subjects for aiding in determining (if we ever can) the true nature of abduction phenomenon.
Here's the thing:
I have a tenuous theory, but if I were to tell you outright (if I could even put it in words at this point) there would be a risk of 'leading you', i.e. your memory, in the direction of my suspicions. So...I'm wondering if you would be willing to tell me more of your story thru private messaging?

I feel very hesitant to ask, you have shared so much in this thread. But, it is difficult to get a sense of real narrative, particularly regarding timeline, from reading what you've shared here.

Of course, I absolutely understand if you'd rather not contact me...
...You have no idea who I really am...Although, I will tell you in all honesty - I'm a fifty year old house-wife who has no outlet for her intelligence aside from various 'sleuthing' forays into the internet...(I'm actually not a bad detective, if I say so myself )

At any rate, no pressure, you need to do whatever you think best for yourself.

reply to post by ArdenWolf


The confusion can be avoided by focusing on actual research.

reply to post by g2v12


The average citizen doesn't do actual research. If you do something big, if you draw huge attention to it and it stands so far outside what the general public can find plausible that it can't help but overshadow everything else, then that's all they'll see. Guess what happens then? It's where it stops. If you want disclosure. If you want things to be such where people can safely express their views. It's the general populace, the sheep of the nation you need to win over. That cannot be done if everything they see looks like a joke.

I do. Shoot I love this stuff. I personally believe there's more out there than we know. I don't believe everything is necessarily what it looks like at face value. Nor do I believe everyone is telling the truth, nor that everyone is lying. But I do see the reality of things. If you put on a Donald Duck costume and then go forth to the supreme court, it doesn't matter how good your case is. No one is going to listen. But they'll damn well get a good laugh.

I don't like how it is, but it is what it is. The goal of media is entertainment and ratings. It's supposed to be news, but it's not, it's entertainment tied up with politics. That's what it is. As long as the message the people receive is one so easily ridiculed, true or not. That's all the people will see, and that's what everything will be judged on. You can't force the general public to "do the research" and sadly it's them you have to convince. If you can sway the people the media will follow, because it's all about ratings.

When something gets massive funding, and it's the people supposedly on the side of disclosure and they put out something so far out there people cannot and will not be swayed by it, because it's asking them to take way too big a leap, it simply does more harm than good. This was supposed to be people that want to sway the public, to sway the government, and make people say, yes, we do need to look into this. Sitting around singing kumbaya in hopes the aliens above come down to spread their peace and love to everybody is a quick way to get people to go, yeah, ok, nutjobs.

At that point all that money, research and the message is worth less than a mud pie in a professional bake off. In fact not only are you producing a mud pie, you're paying top dollar for it, selling it as the next big thing in pastries, and then being surprised when everyone thinks what you're selling is a joke, and those who buy it get upset, because they actual hoped for an actual pie.

The enemies of the cause come on both sides of the fence, some may not mean to. But really, some of these people are clearly educated, they HAVE to know what the reaction to these things will truly be. They have to, I have trouble believing otherwise. And that makes me wonder, on who's side are some people actually on?

For those people that have real, true, and traumatic experiences, my heart goes out to them. I have a few things that trouble myself in this regard as well. Not enough to say for certain, but enough that I'm suspicious. And for those who really do go through the more dramatic and out there seeming experiences. I'm not saying it's a lie. Not necessarily what it seems, always be wary I say, but still. What I am saying is, whether you or anyone else likes it or not, disclosure cannot be won unless the people wanting it recognize where the real problems are on both side of the fence. There are times to embellish a story and times to do the opposite.

To win, to defeat the ridicule, to get this topic taken seriously, there needs to be respectability, and to get that one needs to look respectable in the first place. Winning a war takes battles, it can't all be won in a single act, nor can it be won by shooting oneself in the foot or mistaking enemies for friends, or friends for enemies.

A lot of people want the truth, they know there's something going on. But in the end, they can't help but feel resentful for the extreme weird and bizarre even if they feel there is some truth to it. Why? Because it makes winning damn near impossible. If someone wants to bring someone over they need to get someone to listen long enough to to the believable and good evidence, while at the same time distancing themselves as much as possible from the "crazies" and on top of this, get their friend to be willing to attempt the same and risk the ridicule that will come if you fail to balance this just right and rightly so.

The more extreme a claim the more powerful the evidence required, and frankly there's no where near enough evidence for the more extreme claims. As long as the evidence is followed by food too big and too tough to swallow, no one is going to eat it. We need to drastically take a stand on what evidence is presented and the claims that follow it.