Russia Sends Advanced Missiles to Syria, and Actively Protects Its Port There.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican

Originally posted by MrSpad
That "large Russian naval flotilla" is a 23 year old destroyer, a couple of landing ships, an oil tanker and tug boat. And that is about as much combat power as the Russians can muster beyond their borders now. Sad to see how far they have fallen.

Well that depends on who you talk to, I guess. According to this article:

The group, including the destroyer Admiral Panteleyev, the amphibious warfare ships Peresvet and Admiral Nevelskoi, the tanker Pechenga and the salvage/rescue tug Fotiy Krylov left the port of Vladivostok on March 19 to join Russia’s Mediterranean task force.

The task force currently includes the large anti-submarine ship Severomorsk, the frigate Yaroslav Mudry, the salvage/rescue tugs Altai and SB-921 and the tanker Lena from the Northern and Baltic Fleets, as well as the Ropucha-II Class landing ship Azov from the Black Sea Fleet. The task force may be enlarged to include nuclear submarines, Navy Commander Admiral Viktor Chirkov said last Sunday.

www.zerohedge.com...

Sounds like more than a friendly little welcome party to me.

Putin may be Putin his foot down on the line in the sea sand. And I sure as hell wish he would. Pleas from the American people to stop this madness are getting nowhere. Again.

Your going to need more than a grand total of two escort level warships and a bunch of support ships to put ones foot down. They would not be a match for even the local Turkish fleet much less a US task force and the rest NATOs med assets. This fleet, the so called port and Russia support of Syria are symbolic and nothing more. Russia has never made a pledge to support Syria during an internvention because not only does in not really care even if it did it does not have the ability to anything about it. Syria is a place for Russia to make some money and that is about as far as Russian loyalty to them goes. Why else do you think the sudden growing of ties between Israel and Russia have been going on.

Originally posted by MrSpad

Originally posted by TrueAmerican

Originally posted by MrSpad
That "large Russian naval flotilla" is a 23 year old destroyer, a couple of landing ships, an oil tanker and tug boat. And that is about as much combat power as the Russians can muster beyond their borders now. Sad to see how far they have fallen.

Well that depends on who you talk to, I guess. According to this article:

The group, including the destroyer Admiral Panteleyev, the amphibious warfare ships Peresvet and Admiral Nevelskoi, the tanker Pechenga and the salvage/rescue tug Fotiy Krylov left the port of Vladivostok on March 19 to join Russia’s Mediterranean task force.

The task force currently includes the large anti-submarine ship Severomorsk, the frigate Yaroslav Mudry, the salvage/rescue tugs Altai and SB-921 and the tanker Lena from the Northern and Baltic Fleets, as well as the Ropucha-II Class landing ship Azov from the Black Sea Fleet. The task force may be enlarged to include nuclear submarines, Navy Commander Admiral Viktor Chirkov said last Sunday.

www.zerohedge.com...

Sounds like more than a friendly little welcome party to me.

Putin may be Putin his foot down on the line in the sea sand. And I sure as hell wish he would. Pleas from the American people to stop this madness are getting nowhere. Again.

Your going to need more than a grand total of two escort level warships and a bunch of support ships to put ones foot down. They would not be a match for even the local Turkish fleet much less a US task force and the rest NATOs med assets. This fleet, the so called port and Russia support of Syria are symbolic and nothing more. Russia has never made a pledge to support Syria during an internvention because not only does in not really care even if it did it does not have the ability to anything about it. Syria is a place for Russia to make some money and that is about as far as Russian loyalty to them goes. Why else do you think the sudden growing of ties between Israel and Russia have been going on.

That's a damn good question. Why don't you try to answer that for us since Israel has recently bombed that little harmless port you speak of in light of a weapons shipment received from Russia. Not that I put it past Israel to go around acting like a bully to what you describe as something that isn't a threat...so why don't you go try to convince Israel of that... and then come back and tell us about these ties with Russia when Israel seems to clearly be trying to interrupt movement of shipments under contract between Syria and Russia.

This puts Russia in an interesting position if they choose to do nothing... it really does, by your own words.

Originally posted by MrSpad
Your going to need more than a grand total of two escort level warships and a bunch of support ships to put ones foot down. They would not be a match for even the local Turkish fleet much less a US task force and the rest NATOs med assets.

Maybe. But an 885 Yasen submarine, along with a couple of Akula's- and loaded out with Onyx missiles- would make for a very bad hair day. No matter who your hairdresser is. And those puppies like to travel in wolfpacks. They literally wait for each other to launch, all assemble in the air, and then decide on their own with very sophisticated electronics which priority targets to attack. Some split off and act as decoys, drawing enemy fire away, while one main missile designates itself as the attacker among the group, and wham bam, goodbye M'am. Once main target destroyed, the others reassemble and rinse and repeat. A truly vicious missile system that might just decide to pop up unexpectedly under Putin's orders and wreak havoc. One really shouldn't feed the bears. They tend to bite.

Just quick question peeps..
How large is the fleet in the Persian gulf at the moment.
Not so huge a flight from the Persian Gulf to Syria or Iran...

reply to post by TrueAmerican


I am basically against a military intervention but can understand why they are manufacturing one, there is growing concern about the strength of Iran's Nuclear program and there is the obvious intention of gaining a stronger military presence in the region, Russia under Putin whom once called the collapse of the Soviet union and the eastern block the greatest geopolitical disaster of all time (From his perspective) is trying to form a new block with many of these rogue states and with China while at the same time juggling it's economic interests in the west, It is the strength of these economic interests that the west is gambling on to keep Russia out of the conflict and also the fact that even today and despite the economic situation in the west the states still have weapons at lease 15 to 20 years ahead of the newest Russian countermeasures and weaponry, according to nick pope the UFO guy in Britain alone we are supposed to have a stock pile of drones and missiles that could be used in the event of an alien attack ( Not saying I think it was for that purpose but what if ) however a Lion should still be weary of a Bear.

I believe it now to be only a matter of time before the hidden agenda produces a military intervention both there and in Iran possibly with the use of some pretty nasty weaponry, like any good murder it is just the matter of making themselves look innocent.

The Russians have some very goof equipment so don't get me wrong but they are still 15 to 20 years behind and during the cold war were about 10 years behind but following different technology's such as Radar based anti missile/aircraft technology that was based on the use of a multi-spectrum radar emitter and reciever that by the returned signal was able to analyze the material of the incoming object and taking the strongest absorbtion sigantures create the inverse complex conjugate of the waveform produced - this would then be amplified to several million times the strength and beamed back via a special nuclear powered array that would cause the object to disintegrate at the molecular level by causing it's atomic structure to resonate. This program was apparently linked in part to Chernobyl and was stopped and wound up just before the end of the "First" cold war.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


It is probable that a few Nato hunter subs are in the area and even an old tigerish 2 would take that Russian sub out not to mention modern air dropped antonymous anti submarine hunter killer's.

More is not always better (of course we could always send the astute class and ground them on the nearest shoal at least they would cause a navigation hazard for the Russian's - sorry could not resist a gibe at the idiots in Whitehall).

Russia is not going to intervene on Syria's behalf in any meaningful military way. They've said so publicly. They deplore what is going on but will not get involved. Furthermore they have said that they won't help diplomatically, in the aftermath of NATO's Syrian campaign.

Read all about it:

ca.news.yahoo.com...

Assad's goose is cooked. Next up, the Iranians.

reply to post by MrSpad


If you truly believe Russia doesn't have serious offensive capabilities then you are very naive.
Russia has the deadliest submarines in the world.

The difference between America and Russia is, America overplays everything, and Russia underplays everything, they are not called ' those sneaky Russians ' for nothing.

America wants the Caspian sea for its addiction, and Israel wants a war with the entire Arab world, so they can create a wider secure motherland, and they are going to make it happen whether we like it or not.

From the statements of the Russian Foreign Minister, Sergei Lavrov, it seems likely that Russia also will not support Iran, when that country's hour of need arises.

ca.news.yahoo.com...

"To us, it looks as though [George W.] Bush, [Dick] Cheney and [Donald] Rumsfeld never left the White House," says Alexei Pushkov, chair of the State Duma's international affairs committee.

"It's basically the same policy, as if US leaders had learned nothing and forgotten nothing in the past decade. They want to topple foreign leaders they regard as adversaries, without even making the most basic calculations of the consequences. An intervention in Syria will only enlarge the area of instability in the Middle East and expand the scope of terrorist activity. I am at a complete loss to understand what the US thinks it is doing," he says.

Lavrov is playing dumb. He is speaking "diplomatic speak" and knows full well what is going on. Lavrov, speaking for Russia in his new role of foreign policy dummy is smoothing the way for the next big cop-out, Russian failure to support Iran.

I think Russia is basically making the choice that England made when Europe was being overrun by the Nazis.

They failed to support Czechoslovakia, did little more than lend moral support to Poland and then withheld aircraft from the Battle of France, knowing that they could only send a token force and would have to gain strength for the future battles.

Personally, I think it is a shame that world history is going this way, but I have to resign myself to the realities of the situation. The Americans are going to balkanize the entire region on Russia's southern flank.

If you want to know what its all really about in Syria follow the pipelines and oil.

Kirkuk Baniyas pipeline


President Obama's press secretary said that foreign policy isn't driven by what the people want, but by what is best for "American interests."

Syria has at least 2.5 billion barrels of oil in its fields, making it the next largest Middle Eastern oil producer after Iraq.

Private investors are desperate to get their hands on Syrian oil. Which clearly shows who is dictating US foreign policy.

Its a frenzy for the Syrian black gold, and just like Libya, were do the so called rebels concentrate there forces, The FSA have complete control of the oil fields near Deir Ezzor, and Kurdish groups have taken control of other oil fields in the Rumeilan region, while Israel are illegally occupying the Golan Heights and blatantly extracting their resources.

I could go and on, but I'm guessing you get the point I'm trying make.

The Russians don't have the assets in that theater to take on the fifth fleet, not even close. The only reason the US hasn't invaded Syria yet is they are trying to determine if Syria is the Russian line in the sand.

Hasn't Russia already tried sending missile defense systems already? (not sure)

As to the US / multinational task force soldiers, I still respect the troops as in I feel that most are still unaware of the fact they are fighting for the shadow elite. You want to know the only way we are going to get rid of these elite?

Drag the bastards out of their holes kicking and screaming and end them. Every last one.


reply to post by snapperski


You are forgetting another piece of the pie - a war with Iran. Attack Syria and you will bring Iran into the mix. Once the US controls the Strait then they control the trade routes.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
Maybe. But an 885 Yasen submarine, along with a couple of Akula's- and loaded out with Onyx missiles- would make for a very bad hair day.

Methinks you are just over-hyping a bit there...

The Russians have 1 Yasen which isn't even completed yet and to be honest, one has to wonder just how effective a system it is since it was first conceived in the 1970's! Construction and development were delayed from a planned operational date of 1993 to the current one of 2015! As for the Akula, a pretty average submarine even by 1980's standards, but hopelessly outclassed by the West's current submarines and ASW assets.

The Onyx system is not a sub launched missile. It could be, but they don't have the subs able to do it. They currently use it as a land based system primarily but they do have a project to have a small surface ship equipped with them.

Originally posted by LABTECH767
of course we could always send the astute class and ground them on the nearest shoal at least they would cause a navigation hazard for the Russian's - sorry could not resist a gibe at the idiots in Whitehall).

It wasn't the Whitehall idiots who did that, but the idiot Officer of the Watch who didn't appreciate that low tide + sand banks = a problem. Aside from that, the Astute is currently the most advanced and capable Fleet sub in the world.

Originally posted by snapperski
If you truly believe Russia doesn't have serious offensive capabilities then you are very naive.
Russia has the deadliest submarines in the world.

No, they don't, unless of course you mean deadly to their own crews? Russia's submarine fleet is dated, at best. What makes you think they are the most "deadly"?

reply to post by stumason


I agree with your assessment, but does the US really want to go pissing off Russia and China?

(and yes I said China because they have a vested interests in Iran - which is the true objective of all this)

Originally posted by snapperski
reply to post by MrSpad

 

If you truly believe Russia doesn't have serious offensive capabilities then you are very naive.
Russia has the deadliest submarines in the world.

The difference between America and Russia is, America overplays everything, and Russia underplays everything, they are not called ' those sneaky Russians ' for nothing.

America wants the Caspian sea for its addiction, and Israel wants a war with the entire Arab world, so they can create a wider secure motherland, and they are going to make it happen whether we like it or not.

Russia had serious sub fleet at one time. Russia had a fine airforce and army at one time. Those days are long gone. Russia has tried to reform the military a couple of time over the last few years but, massive corruption has ruined those attempts. The other problem the Russians have is lack of skilled workers in the defense industry. They can design things but have nobody skilled to build it. That is why the are buying drones a such from the Isrealis. And this has nothing to do with Caspian sea and if Isreal wanted a war with the Arab world it should be supporting Assad because the Arabs are the rebels strongest supporters along with the Turks.

reply to post by MidnightTide

You are forgetting another piece of the pie - a war with Iran. Attack Syria and you will bring Iran into the mix. Once the US controls the Strait then they control the trade routes.

I haven't forgot about Iran, as i said in a few comments back, the Caspian sea is the golden goose, the Americans want.

The Russians don't have the assets in that theater to take on the fifth fleet, not even close.

None of that matters when you have enough nukes to scorch the entire planet, never before in recorded history has the planet lived in such dangerous times.

The panic to secure energy = power, could well be the death of our species in our lifetime.

reply to post by MidnightTide


I honestly don't think they will do anything - what can they do? Neither can risk conflict with the Western powers, or in fact much of the world, as they are in the minority still trying to protect Syria. Both are playing the game, but I doubt anything more than logistical support will be forthcoming - what else could they do?

Iran, on the other hand, might get uppity and this may well be the case with tacit Russian/Chinese support. But I would be very surprised if either confronted the West directly as neither has the power to do so and too much to lose.

This harks back to the 1999 Kosovo war, where Russia got all uppity about it, threatened all sorts of things and even sent in some troops to seize Pristina before the British got there, causing a bit of a stand-off where, thankfully, the British commander (a rather amusingly named Sir Michael Jackson) refused orders by the American general to engage the Russians and seize the airport.

In the end, the Russians actually co-operated, to a point, with the NATO forces and peace was restored to Kosovo.

reply to post by stumason


Well actually from an insider source I will not quote as I too have signed the OSA it was down mainly to a technical error and yes the officer made a mistake but the ship has had problems from day one, I just hope to god it does not turn into another nimrod (you know we now have computers that would work that system flawlessly and were just able to fix it when it was scrapped despite being technically better than the A WAX without the blind cone underneath it that the Americans had to supplement a smaller underbelly pod to fix).
And as for Whitehall it is full of blind idiot's what kind of Prime minister withdraws military funding while his troops are committed to foreign theater's - don't get me started on that I have lost enough friends because of there kack handed idiocy and I will say that again they are a bunch of incompetent idiots, over payed and over dressed and only there for there own agenda's unlike Churchill.

reply to post by MrSpad


Indeed - they have recently signed a deal with France to buy some Amphibious ships off them, with the first being built by France, then the others being built in Russia with French assistance, because they can't do it themselves.

Originally posted by NotAnAspie

Originally posted by MrSpad

Originally posted by TrueAmerican

Originally posted by MrSpad
That "large Russian naval flotilla" is a 23 year old destroyer, a couple of landing ships, an oil tanker and tug boat. And that is about as much combat power as the Russians can muster beyond their borders now. Sad to see how far they have fallen.

Well that depends on who you talk to, I guess. According to this article:

The group, including the destroyer Admiral Panteleyev, the amphibious warfare ships Peresvet and Admiral Nevelskoi, the tanker Pechenga and the salvage/rescue tug Fotiy Krylov left the port of Vladivostok on March 19 to join Russia’s Mediterranean task force.

The task force currently includes the large anti-submarine ship Severomorsk, the frigate Yaroslav Mudry, the salvage/rescue tugs Altai and SB-921 and the tanker Lena from the Northern and Baltic Fleets, as well as the Ropucha-II Class landing ship Azov from the Black Sea Fleet. The task force may be enlarged to include nuclear submarines, Navy Commander Admiral Viktor Chirkov said last Sunday.

www.zerohedge.com...

Sounds like more than a friendly little welcome party to me.

Putin may be Putin his foot down on the line in the sea sand. And I sure as hell wish he would. Pleas from the American people to stop this madness are getting nowhere. Again.

Your going to need more than a grand total of two escort level warships and a bunch of support ships to put ones foot down. They would not be a match for even the local Turkish fleet much less a US task force and the rest NATOs med assets. This fleet, the so called port and Russia support of Syria are symbolic and nothing more. Russia has never made a pledge to support Syria during an internvention because not only does in not really care even if it did it does not have the ability to anything about it. Syria is a place for Russia to make some money and that is about as far as Russian loyalty to them goes. Why else do you think the sudden growing of ties between Israel and Russia have been going on.

That's a damn good question. Why don't you try to answer that for us since Israel has recently bombed that little harmless port you speak of in light of a weapons shipment received from Russia. Not that I put it past Israel to go around acting like a bully to what you describe as something that isn't a threat...so why don't you go try to convince Israel of that... and then come back and tell us about these ties with Russia when Israel seems to clearly be trying to interrupt movement of shipments under contract between Syria and Russia.

This puts Russia in an interesting position if they choose to do nothing... it really does, by your own words.

Israel has not bombed the port/pier or the shack. If you want to know about Russian and Israels growing ties you can find plenty of information about it. Putin has some sort of crush on them. Buying thier milirary tech, first Russian naval vitsits etc. Russia will do nothing with Syria because they do not care beyond making some money and they do not have the abiliry to act even if they did care.