A Critique of "Living in the Moment"

Here's an extreme case of "living in the moment".

reply to post by NiNjABackflip


Try to stop focusing on imagining the past and imagining the future for 24 hours.
Then talk about what is wrong with it .

Originally posted by NiNjABackflip

There is no “past” or “future” in reality. Past and Future are concepts. They lead us to assume uncertainties: that the present has existed before, and will continue to do so. What I have found odd is that some have turned this base fact into a principle through which people should live by. Out of it has grown a philosophy that might, in the end, prove quite dangerous.

The fact that there is no “past” and “future” is perhaps carried a little too far, stipulating that since there is no Past or Future in reality, that we shouldn’t consider them in thought, that we must not remember what the present was once like, nor infer about what it might become. I find this outlook a little deceptive, and almost self-limiting, because thinking about the Past or Future is instead remembering or inferring about the Present – what it is, what it was, and what it might become.

The principle that there is only the current moment, although intuitive, is highly unnecessary. We all exist in the current moment; we already “live in the moment” and cannot do otherwise no matter how hard we try. Saying that “we should live in the moment” is about as fundamental as saying “we should exist”. It’s a case of pointing out the obvious and not in the least bit a life-altering profundity.

Nonetheless, despite its arbitrariness, this “live in the moment” doctrine persists, and I find that in the end such a dogmatic outlook may be taken to the extreme. I could imagine people forcing themselves to stop remembering the past, or in other words, stop referring to the memories of the present as it once was, and instead concern themselves primarily with “what is going on”, “what is happening” around them. Despite the act of remembering being a practice best done in the present, this remembering is maligned for being somehow out of place. Likewise with thinking about the future, or wondering about how the present might become – although this wondering happens in the present, this wonderment is maligned as something that will lead a man to stress or worry. So I think it contradictory to assert that the moment is all there is, yet proclaim that we shouldn’t concern ourselves with past or future, even though being concerned about them happens in the present. It is the present moment where stress and worry come from. In fact, all pain, displeasure and all the worlds ills also happen in the present moment.

To not think about the past is to not reflect. To not think about the future is to not imagine. Not doing these things, of course, is inhuman. A lion will attack his own offspring without hesitation. A human, who reflects and imagines, would hopefully reason to not do such a thing. We have foresight. We reflect. Yet we shouldn’t? And this is where I find the danger lies: that one who lives strictly in the moment will fail to realize the implications of his actions, or will fail to learn from past mistakes, simply because he finds those types of thoughts are illusions and misdirection, and because he desires satiety more than responsibility.

But luckily, we find their teachings impractical. We don’t walk to keep from falling, or to stay upright; we walk because we have a destination in mind. We can remember something, “the past”, and utilize these memories in our day to day. We can think about what the present might become, reason on its possibilities, and direct our actions accordingly. By avoiding the use of these tools – which I would argue is an impossibility – how is that “living in the moment”? More like “denying the moment”.

There is no “past” or “future” in reality. Past and Future are concepts.
The present has existed before and will continue to do so.

You don't find imagining, thinking about the past or future a little deceptive and self-limiting as you prefer thinking about the Past or Future, what might be, instead of what IS .
We all exist in the current moment, we can't BE present (what you called “live in the moment”) if you are not conscious of the present moment, if you are instead in a mental state imagining the past and future.
Likewise with all the obsessive thinking about the future & past , imagining the future and projecting the past this imagining happens in the present and moves you out of being aware of the present, this imagining is maligned as something that leads a man to stress or worry and not aware of the present moment.
It is not the present moment where stress and worry come from, stress and worry come from not being in, not accepting the present moment.
Its not inhuman to choose not to live in your imagination/ a mental state instead of being aware of the NOW.
The ability to have a reasoning mind is not attached to the ability to imagine the past or future.
A lion will not attack his own offspring without hesitation, a man who reflects and imagines, would and does do such a things.

reply to post by BDBinc

Try to stop focusing on imagining the past and imagining the future for 24 hours.
Then talk about what is wrong with it .

Why would I try to quell one of my abilities exactly? Maybe you should try to hone it than to get rid of it?

reply to post by BDBinc

There is no “past” or “future” in reality. Past and Future are concepts.
The present has existed before and will continue to do so.

You don't find imagining, thinking about the past or future a little deceptive and self-limiting as you prefer thinking about the Past or Future, what might be, instead of what IS .
We all exist in the current moment, we can't BE present (what you called “live in the moment”) if you are not conscious of the present moment, if you are instead in a mental state imagining the past and future.
Likewise with all the obsessive thinking about the future & past , imagining the future and projecting the past this imagining happens in the present and moves you out of being aware of the present, this imagining is maligned as something that leads a man to stress or worry and not aware of the present moment.
It is not the present moment where stress and worry come from, stress and worry come from not being in, not accepting the present moment.
Its not inhuman to choose not to live in your imagination/ a mental state instead of being aware of the NOW.
The ability to have a reasoning mind is not attached to the ability to imagine the past or future.
A lion will not attack his own offspring without hesitation, a man who reflects and imagines, would and does do such a things.

Who lives in their imagination? People live and they imagine. It makes little sense what is being promoted here. Stress and worry are not the worlds greatest ills. They are natural occurrences of animals aware of their surroundings.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


What is known is the past, and i know what you mean, no problem there.
What you talk about is a state in which the past continually falls away so it won't distort the present nor does it fill the future with projections.
This is bliss, but we have not left the earth, nor do we live outside of time.

About the videos, i know you post them with the best intentions, but i just want to ask you to speak in your own words because i can't have a conversation with a video on this forum.

Originally posted by NiNjABackflip
reply to post by BDBinc

 

Try to stop focusing on imagining the past and imagining the future for 24 hours.
Then talk about what is wrong with it .

Why would I try to quell one of my abilities exactly? Maybe you should try to hone it than to get rid of it?

I said try it for 24 hrs as I thought one needed to feel and understand the NOW first before critiquing. You keep honing your ability to not be fully aware of the present moment if you wish, you are when you practice the mental state of remembering the past and imagining the future 24/7 . .And I note you are still criticizing a different 'concept', one related to the ability or remember the past and imagining the future ( which is not the experience of NOW).
There is no peace in it so why would I hone imagination/illusions if I have felt reality, the completeness & contentment of NOW.

Originally posted by NiNjABackflip
reply to post by BDBinc

 

There is no “past” or “future” in reality. Past and Future are concepts.
The present has existed before and will continue to do so.

You don't find imagining, thinking about the past or future a little deceptive and self-limiting as you prefer thinking about the Past or Future, what might be, instead of what IS .
We all exist in the current moment, we can't BE present (what you called “live in the moment”) if you are not conscious of the present moment, if you are instead in a mental state imagining the past and future.
Likewise with all the obsessive thinking about the future & past , imagining the future and projecting the past this imagining happens in the present and moves you out of being aware of the present, this imagining is maligned as something that leads a man to stress or worry and not aware of the present moment.
It is not the present moment where stress and worry come from, stress and worry come from not being in, not accepting the present moment.
Its not inhuman to choose not to live in your imagination/ a mental state instead of being aware of the NOW.
The ability to have a reasoning mind is not attached to the ability to imagine the past or future.
A lion will not attack his own offspring without hesitation, a man who reflects and imagines, would and does do such a things.

Who lives in their imagination? People live and they imagine. It makes little sense what is being promoted here. Stress and worry are not the worlds greatest ills. They are natural occurrences of animals aware of their surroundings.

You do.
It does not make sense to you as you haven't grasped it yet.
In YOUR post you said It is the present moment where stress and worry come from, but it does not. Stress and worry come from your imagining the future (with your desire and fear).
Stress and worry are not natural, only your wrong thinking/imagining causes you to feel anxiety.

reply to post by BDBinc

I said try it for 24 hrs as I thought one needed to feel and understand the NOW first before critiquing. You keep honing your ability to not be fully aware of the present moment if you wish, you are when you practice the mental state of remembering the past and imagining the future 24/7 . .And I note you are still criticizing a different 'concept', one related to the ability or remember the past and imagining the future ( which is not the experience of NOW).
There is no peace in it so why would I hone imagination/illusions if I have felt reality, the completeness & contentment of NOW.

I said I was honing my ability to think. This I can do while being aware. It's silly to say one is not aware when they are thinking. It simply isn't the way things work. Show me one unaware person that thinks.

reply to post by BDBinc

You do.
It does not make sense to you as you haven't grasped it yet.
In YOUR post you said It is the present moment where stress and worry come from, but it does not. Stress and worry come from your imagining the future (with your desire and fear).
Stress and worry are not natural, only your wrong thinking/imagining causes you to feel anxiety.

It is absurd to say stress and worry come from anywhere else but in the present. I don't feel stress and worry in the future or the past. Your stress and your fear comes from thinking. I only get joy and peace when I'm able to reflect and imagine. If I wasn't able to do that, or denied myself that joy, I would be unable to learn from and appreciate my life.

Originally posted by NiNjABackflip
reply to post by BDBinc

 

You do.
It does not make sense to you as you haven't grasped it yet.
In YOUR post you said It is the present moment where stress and worry come from, but it does not. Stress and worry come from your imagining the future (with your desire and fear).
Stress and worry are not natural, only your wrong thinking/imagining causes you to feel anxiety.

It is absurd to say stress and worry come from anywhere else but in the present. I don't feel stress and worry in the future or the past. Your stress and your fear comes from thinking. I only get joy and peace when I'm able to reflect and imagine. If I wasn't able to do that, or denied myself that joy, I would be unable to learn from and appreciate my life.

Q)What makes you feel stress and worry.
A)When you are thinking and imagining the past or future (not being in the now) .
If you can only get joy and peace from imagining/remembering joyful or peaceful moments, imagine accessing the one source of that joy and peace.

Originally posted by NiNjABackflip
reply to post by BDBinc

 

I said try it for 24 hrs as I thought one needed to feel and understand the NOW first before critiquing. You keep honing your ability to not be fully aware of the present moment if you wish, you are when you practice the mental state of remembering the past and imagining the future 24/7 . .And I note you are still criticizing a different 'concept', one related to the ability or remember the past and imagining the future ( which is not the experience of NOW).
There is no peace in it so why would I hone imagination/illusions if I have felt reality, the completeness & contentment of NOW.

I said I was honing my ability to think. This I can do while being aware. It's silly to say one is not aware when they are thinking. It simply isn't the way things work. Show me one unaware person that thinks.

No you didn't say that, you said maybe I should hone my imagining the past and future.

I said
Try to stop focusing on imagining the past and imagining the future for 24 hours.
Then talk about what is wrong with it ."
You said to me
"Why would I try to quell one of my abilities exactly? Maybe YOU should try to hone it than to get rid of it?"


I did not in my post say you were not aware.
I said you were not aware of the moment/present when you are imagining the past or future.

Aware:

Having or showing realization, knowledge or perception. (from Dictionary ) also meaning watchful, wary.

Wary meaning marked by keen caution, cunning, and watchfulness especially in detecting and escaping danger.
from1ware, from Middle English war, ware, from Old English wær careful, aware, wary; akin to Old High German giwar aware, attentive, Latin vereri to fear, Greek horan to see
(again from Merriam-Websters)

the interest in this would be the Greek: HORAN, meaning to See.

Thinking, and again our trusty dictionary says: : the action of using one's mind to produce thoughts.

Now NinjaBackflip said:

I said I was honing my ability to think. This I can do while being aware. It's silly to say one is not aware when they are thinking. It simply isn't the way things work. Show me one unaware person that thinks

and it made me 'think' about Realization, being realized is very different from just Thought and thinking.
to be Realized means to Bring into concrete existence as one meaning.
Also means to conceive vividly as real : be fully aware of

our Perception creates our reality can be understood by our Awareness?
Thoughts unfortunately get in the way of actually seeing how Awareness is meant by Living in the Now followers
.
Honing the ability to think is great, critical thinking well worth All our Efforts to improve, I concur.
But many go day to day, unaware, robotic in habit,, and yes,, deep in their thoughts, thinking. But that does not make them aware. Far from it, it goes further to prove that most people are floating on their self created boats of thoughts, and are NOT aware of Life in it's fullness, and as seen behind the cacophony and clatter of thought.

so, if we are going to talk about how Living in the Moment really works,
definitions are in order, and should be agreed upon.

Enjoying everyones thoughts ,, great thread of great thinkers who I think for the most part are Aware persons. !!

Originally posted by NiNjABackflip
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

That's your conception of reality, which you've asserted in every single post. It's like saying "everything happens when everything happens" or "it all goes down where it all goes down". What I'm saying is that your assertion is meaningless. It's arbitrary. It is has no use.

It's use is in stopping thought. It creates a loop, which keeps the mind going in the same circle, not turning off on "what could be", "what has been", or "why" or "how".
My first experience with a round-about in Europe was something like this.

It just another thought - stopping technique. It is useful to those who find their thoughts a source of discomfort.
It is absolutely useless to those who enjoy thinking!

Originally posted by Bluesma

Originally posted by NiNjABackflip
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

That's your conception of reality, which you've asserted in every single post. It's like saying "everything happens when everything happens" or "it all goes down where it all goes down". What I'm saying is that your assertion is meaningless. It's arbitrary. It is has no use.

It's use is in stopping thought. It creates a loop, which keeps the mind going in the same circle, not turning off on "what could be", "what has been", or "why" or "how".
My first experience with a round-about in Europe was something like this.

It just another thought - stopping technique. It is useful to those who find their thoughts a source of discomfort.
It is absolutely useless to those who enjoy thinking!

It is not a thought stopping technique. Thinking cannot be stopped. However sometimes thought just ceases to arise for long enough to actually see that there is a space without thought.

When the space is known and then a thought arises it is seen that it arises in the space that is always present. The space is what contains all that arises.
Thoughts come and go and are transitory, just like all that appears. Whereas the space the appearance appears in is constant.

Originally posted by earthling42
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

What is known is the past, and i know what you mean, no problem there.

The 'past' is a word arising presently - only what arises presently is 'known'. The word 'past' is known presently.
What 'past' do you 'think' you 'know'?

What you talk about is a state in which the past continually falls away so it won't distort the present nor does it fill the future with projections.
This is bliss, but we have not left the earth, nor do we live outside of time.

It is only words arising and images arising now that tell you there was something other than now - but when does it do that?
Seeing and hearing and projecting happen now. You do not live in time - life is only ever alive now.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

The 'past' is a word arising presently - only what arises presently is 'known'. The word 'past' is known presently.
What 'past' do you 'think' you 'know'?

Well i know where i came from, don't you? and the whole point is, can we be free from that.
We can, but it does not mean that it somehow suddenly has dissapeared, it just has no place in the presence, it is not actual anymore.

It is only words arising and images arising now that tell you there was something other than now - but when does it do that?
Seeing and hearing and projecting happen now. You do not live in time - life is only ever alive now.

We are not only the mind, we cannot only live in the mind, words and images arise all the time and they are practical in this physical reality we live in, like when to work the land, when to sow or reap, the whole physical existence is bound to time.

There is a difference between the 'me' that is led by it's own past, and the physical existence we live in.

Originally posted by earthling42
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

The 'past' is a word arising presently - only what arises presently is 'known'. The word 'past' is known presently.
What 'past' do you 'think' you 'know'?

Well i know where i came from, don't you?

Do you know where you came from? Do you even know what you are? What existence is?

Originally posted by earthling42

It is only words arising and images arising now that tell you there was something other than now - but when does it do that?
Seeing and hearing and projecting happen now. You do not live in time - life is only ever alive now.

We are not only the mind, we cannot only live in the mind, words and images arise all the time and they are practical in this physical reality we live in, like when to work the land, when to sow or reap, the whole physical existence is bound to time.

No, you are not the mind - you are what the mind appears in.
You are now. You are not in the now - you are now (presence).
Nothing can appear without presence.