Are people really this brainwashed, that they welcome spying?? Plus informal poll question.

Considering all of the issues of spying these days, and the outrage from various sectors, it's no surprise that such issues come up in conversation. Well, today, the issues of spying via internet, illegal searches, and issues concerning such at schools came up, in a conversation I was having with a family member. I should have known better, frankly, as this person is difficult at the best of times, but I was distracted, and walked right into the conversation.

Well, we had been discussing the usual boring, banal material that is typical for this person, consisting of weather, dinner plans, and the like. *snore, snore...* Where was I? Oh, yes, the annoying part of the conversation. Well, I was trying to get things set up to chat online with someone else, and having some difficulties. I mentioned to this FM of mine that I had no intention of downloading Google Chrome to use the chat feature available there. Little did I know I had stepped into quicksand. She asked why I didn't want to use Google. I responded that they are among the worst for spying on people, about how I had to specifically block their cookies, because they bypass the normal "no third party cookies" settings, and how they give date to the government. Well, her responses surely earned her brownie points in the NWO system! Her first comment was, "I don't care if they track the maybe 10 sites I visit, they are going to be really bored", and "who cares? they will see I read email, go on Facebook once a day, occasionally go on *various websites* and check the local news site a few times a week big whoop let them look". I was then asked why I cared. I tried explaining that it was the principle of the thing, that we had to protect our rights or risk losing them. I explained that there were already numerous threats, and how things were getting worse. It was like talking to a brick wall.

I tried explaining some specific ways that our basic freedoms are threatened, such as parents being told they cannot send a lunch from home, or the case of the child being told her home lunch, that was well within standards, wasn't "good enough", and being forced to eat crappy school food. Of course, she pretended to have never heard of such cases. When I expressed that a school should have no right to search all the lunches of students, she tried claiming it could be "for safety", because they might brings drugs or weapons in them. At this point, becoming quite annoyed, I offered a quote -

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

In response, she stated, "I'd rather have my child be safe at school"

Mind you, I have tried to explain such things to her in the past, and this is a college educated, mature person, who formerly taught school!

I then explained that this is a violation of the 4'th Amendment. She commented, "if you aren't doing anything why do you care", and, "it is talking about searching homes not security checks".

So, being the stubborn person that I am, I then quoted the 4'th Amendment to her, pointing out that it says persons, houses, papers, and effects. At that point, I was told, "maybe you should move to a compound in Montana with the other people who think like you do"

Fortunately, this conversation was taking place over an online messenger, and not in person, because I might otherwise have done something I should not do. I did tell her she was being stupid, and that a LOT of people care when their rights are violated. She next claimed that the 4'th only refers to "the government", and not anyplace else. I pointed out that the public school system is effectively run by the government, to be told, "schools are NOT he government", and, "you really do not know what you are talking about", and, "and how many years did you wirk in the school system?", and yes, the typo was hers.

To further convince me that she had no clue, she then stated, "the constitution you are so fond of quoting requires tax funded free education for kids"

*blink, blink*

I stated that it most certainly did NOT, and suggested she read it. I was told, "I have read it and it does ". This, from a former school teacher..........

I even posted a link to the entire Constitution, online, and invited her to show me where it guaranteed education. Needless to say, I didn't get a response. I was told that I didn't listen to anyone, etc., and that I was "paranoid", and on and on. I response there was, "So, you can't find it?"

Then, she goes back to the spying issues, so I asked her if she would want someone staring in her windows all day, taking pictures, reading her mail, and so forth, and she actually claimed (and I wish I was kidding), "I don't care. I don't know anyone but you that does. The people I know don't care."

Does anyone else believe this??

Mind you, I KNOW she's talked before about privacy, in a very different way. Many years back, when discussing homeschooling laws, she stated that she loved the ones in her state, because they don't monitor anything, and she didn't think it was anyone else's business how she schooled her kids. So, there is some inconsistency here.

She then asks again who these companies give the data to, even though I already told her, in the same conversation. She asks also, "
and why should I care if the government sees what sites I go to?", and states, "let them look at *hobby type sites*, local weather and *games* I don't care". I tried telling her that it could matter, how virtually anyone could be called a "potential terrorist" these days, and listed a few of the items on lists (such as have been posted and discussed here at ATS), including being Christian, and being pro-life, both of which she is. Her response was, "some prolifers are terrorists". She even stated at one point that she wondered what I was hiding, since I didn't want people spying on my net usage, or searching my bags everywhere I go! Ah, the old, "You must be a criminal, or you wouldn't care if they looked." line!

Ever have a day where you wished you could reach through the internet.........?

After all this, she decided she couldn't talk anymore.

So.........comments? Opinions?

Anyone else know someone like this?

For the totally informal poll, how many of you care about protecting your privacy? Yes, I know, this is ATS. I would guess most here care. So, to make it more interesting, if you can, please ask people you know how they feel about their privacy. I guess what I am looking for is some idea of how many people think like this person. So, a count of how many care, and how many don't, and maybe some idea of their political leanings, with non-ATS members separated from the members in the counts.

I find it scary to think that there could be a lot of people like her around. Not people that are simply clueless regarding the threats, but people that KNOW, and don't think it matters. I also wonder if her being in education is a factor. Has the system been that corrupted, for that long? This person hasn't taught in close to two decades, and lives in a state that has traditionally been thought of as one that values freedom.

Alright, ATS, have at!

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes


You should ask her if there was some kind of "natural disaster" in her area, if she would happily go to a FEMA camp with her children.

If she was "forcibly evacuated" due to an oncoming disaster - would she go to a FEMA camp?

How does she feel about the 2nd amendment?

There are a lot of people who would line up for "state assistance" if the "gov't" said it was necessary.

It's rather frightening.

How many people just give their children all the vaccines without questioning?

i feel for ya. i've given up on talking to people [ family and friends ] about all this a long time ago. i find it useless. and now, i start to hear them to start talking about things i tried to tell 'em and have to laugh at 'em. back then when i was younger, i would try and tell 'em and got responses like yours , and would get frustrated and want to punch something cos they weren't listening. now, if TSHTF, i outta here, family or no. so yeah, there are far many more than anyone realizes, that have that same attitude.

reply to post by thishereguy


Everyone has there couple particular issues and don't think about the deteriorating of our constituional rights until their "main issue" is messed with.

Reminds me of that old saying 'They came for the Jews, but I'm not a Jew - They came for the homosexuals, but I'm not a homosexual - They came for the retards, but I'm not a retard -

Obviously, I'm poorly paraphrasing - but you get the picture.

thats typical of most of them .. and damn scary that they fail to see much less understand the threat to privacy , rights and freedom that such attitudes hold ..

cant stand busybodies of any type private , government or other .. is why prefer live far from so-called "civilisation" .. and take steps to ensure my privacy from the busybodies of the world ..

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes


Does anyone remember (back in the day) when we used to think the same way?

When we watched the evening news and believed what they were telling us?
When we heard a politician speak and believed what they were saying?

There was a time when I would see a shooting star and quickly make a wish.

Now I look up and imagine; UFO, satellite, iron ore meteorite, etc.

I have family that still believes the nightly news. These are the same folks that feel that if it wasn't reported or told by the media, then it wasn't important.

To them, 2+2 = 5 because the government and media said it does.

To those of us that see the answer is 4, we will always be the fringe, the outsiders.

As for privacy? If we really wanted privacy, we wouldn't be posting on a public site.

"Knock Knock"
I open the door...."Yes"?

"For the totally informal poll, how many of you care about protecting your privacy? Yes, I know, this is ATS. I would guess most here care. So, to make it more interesting, if you can, please ask people you know how........"

Shuts door
-------------------------------------------

Just having some fun, OP
Nearly everyone i know is as just as you describe. It makes me sad. I cannot wake them up. No matter what i do to to expose the illusion of what they call reality, nothing works. I used to get angry with how obtuse my friends would be, then i realized that i am trying to work thru decades of brainwashing, layer upon layer of lies.....
I weep for my friends

I feel ya. I got rid of my facebook primarily because of the disagreements I was having with relatives whom I love dearly but made me also wish I could Jedi Mind Choke them through the screen.

One of them realized I was not going to vote for Obama this time around and sent me a three page letter on why he is the greatest thing since sliced bread. She told me she was "on a mission" for him and vows to tell everyone about the truth of how great and wonderful he is" In other words one of the brainwashed sheeple.
Once Sandyhook happened her and many others on my page were extatic to give up rights to keep themselves happy and secure in their persons. They don't mind being molested by security guards, nor do they mind their phone calls or internet or driving being tracked. I deleted my facebook not just for my privacy concerns but because I couldn't stand reading about how happy my relatives are to give up their freedoms and how they could care less about ours being taken.

It ruined my views on two relatives I cared deeply for.

Best thing you can do is not talk to them about politics. Those people were too easily brainwashed and will never come out of it and might one day come to think of you as an ememy, best to stay away from any political talk where they are concerned. There are plenty of other people who have yet to drink the koolaid but are unaware still....focus more attention on them.

I just love it when people use those arguments, that they don't care, that they have nothing to hide - of course, when I have those conversations it isn't online, typically face to face. I find it pretty easy to break down the arguments about privacy issues with questions like:
"does your husband/wife/father/mother know you masturbate - when was the last time you masturbated
(don't you know there's probably video of it on the internet if you have a web cam, cable tv or cell phone)

The same kind of questioning using drinking, drugging, infidelity, theft (just depends on who you're talking to and what you know about them) - also works just as well to issue a harsh dose of reality to people.

If I'm dealing with in-laws or other older folks:
when was the last time you took one of your husband's/wife's/children's/friend's prescription drugs or offered on one of your to them

how about your tax return - does the IRS know you get free blah balh from your sister/brother/father/mother or that you use your money for blah blah and don't report it

It usually pisses the person off to be asked such offensive and/or personal questions, but it NEVER fails to drive home the point that there are a multitude of things subject to surveillance that are much better left private.

You can probably guess I don't have many cordial acquaintances with questions like these.

ganjoa

Something happens to people when they have a kid. It's like they flip full retard and all the nonsense that the media and politicians have been scaring them with for the past two, three, four decades gets activated and the world suddenly becomes this flaming hellscape where everyone wants to eat their baby.

Originally posted by Happy1
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

You should ask her if there was some kind of "natural disaster" in her area, if she would happily go to a FEMA camp with her children.

If she was "forcibly evacuated" due to an oncoming disaster - would she go to a FEMA camp?

How does she feel about the 2nd amendment?

There are a lot of people who would line up for "state assistance" if the "gov't" said it was necessary.

It's rather frightening.

How many people just give their children all the vaccines without questioning?

edit on 24-8-2013 by Happy1 because: (no reason given)

The way she acts, she'd probably say they were doing it for her own good. She's one of those people that simply MUST BE different, and will argue with anything and everything to assert her difference. Well, for family, anyway. Around other people, based on how she was in school, she's a total conformist. Regarding guns, she won't own one, which in her case I can actually understand. One of the kids is autistic, and he's able to get into pretty much anything. So, a gun would be a real safety issue. She states that she doesn't have problems with others having them, but I don't know how serious she is. Sometime when I feel like pulling out my hair, I might get her talking about one of the shooting cases.

Originally posted by thishereguy
i feel for ya. i've given up on talking to people [ family and friends ] about all this a long time ago. i find it useless. and now, i start to hear them to start talking about things i tried to tell 'em and have to laugh at 'em.

back then when i was younger, i would try and tell 'em and got responses like yours , and would get frustrated and want to punch something cos they weren't listening. now, if TSHTF, i outta here, family or no. so yeah, there are far many more than anyone realizes, that have that same attitude.

Oh, wow....I was hoping I was in a small group! Should have known better...

The family I talk to, meaning those that live in the same house, all have sense. One sibling seems to on this sort of issue, but is also willing to get what he can from the system, so it's more of what he wants, than about rights, I think. The extended family is mixed. From FB posts, some have a good grasp of the issues, and some, I have no idea. I suppose there would have t be alot like those we know, though, for TPTB to get away with as much as they do!

Originally posted by Happy1
reply to post by thishereguy

 

Everyone has there couple particular issues and don't think about the deteriorating of our constituional rights until their "main issue" is messed with.

Reminds me of that old saying 'They came for the Jews, but I'm not a Jew - They came for the homosexuals, but I'm not a homosexual - They came for the retards, but I'm not a retard -

Obviously, I'm poorly paraphrasing - but you get the picture.

Yeah, I know the phrase you mean, and it's SO applicable to her. Well, almost. In her case, she'd probably be on a preferred list, since she's such a total sheep. She'd be one of those turning people in. "Friends of the Visitors"-type.

Originally posted by Expat888
thats typical of most of them .. and damn scary that they fail to see much less understand the threat to privacy , rights and freedom that such attitudes hold ..

cant stand busybodies of any type private , government or other .. is why prefer live far from so-called "civilisation" .. and take steps to ensure my privacy from the busybodies of the world ..

Seems like this is the truth; that most people really are that gullible, that easily lead. Your comment shows the reason that the government seems to be trying to push people to the cities, too.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

Does anyone remember (back in the day) when we used to think the same way?

When we watched the evening news and believed what they were telling us?
When we heard a politician speak and believed what they were saying?

There was a time when I would see a shooting star and quickly make a wish.

Now I look up and imagine; UFO, satellite, iron ore meteorite, etc.

I have family that still believes the nightly news. These are the same folks that feel that if it wasn't reported or told by the media, then it wasn't important.

To them, 2+2 = 5 because the government and media said it does.

To those of us that see the answer is 4, we will always be the fringe, the outsiders.

As for privacy? If we really wanted privacy, we wouldn't be posting on a public site.

edit on 24-8-2013 by beezzer because: (no reason given)

I don't think I was ever completely that way. I have always had strong feelings about freedom, and I remember my parents talking about this or that crooked politician, and how so many couldn't be trusted. I don't recall any discussions about who they DID trust, if anyone. My dad was quite an interesting person, and we had many long talks, about all sorts of subjects, standing outside watching the stars. Considering his sci-fi inclinations, even that wasn't just "pretty" - though it was certainly that! He knew all the constellations, schedules for meteor showers and eclipses, and so much more. When the moon landing happened, it was a HUGE big deal, and even though I was YOUNG, not yet five, I remember it vividly. For him, it was all about possibilities, and I inherited that trait. In that way, I was lucky.

Guess which family member was in bed during all those discussions? Yep, the one that refuses to see any problems. This is exactly the sort of person you mean when talking about believing all on the news. Someone that watches it regularly, and believes every single thing she's told. No questions, no doubts.

Ah, the privacy......well, I figure if they are spying anyway, they can be annoyed at how we talk about them! Beats living a lie.

Originally posted by occrest
"Knock Knock"
I open the door...."Yes"?

"For the totally informal poll, how many of you care about protecting your privacy? Yes, I know, this is ATS. I would guess most here care. So, to make it more interesting, if you can, please ask people you know how........"

Shuts door
-------------------------------------------

Just having some fun, OP

Nearly everyone i know is as just as you describe. It makes me sad.

I cannot wake them up. No matter what i do to to expose the illusion of what they call reality, nothing works. I used to get angry with how obtuse my friends would be, then i realized that i am trying to work thru decades of brainwashing, layer upon layer of lies.....
I weep for my friends

That's too funny. And yeah, too sad that so many are SO gullible! No wonder God calls people "sheep"! It's amazing, too, that two people that grew up together can be SO different. I know my dad was the influence there.

Originally posted by brandiwine14
I feel ya. I got rid of my facebook primarily because of the disagreements I was having with relatives whom I love dearly but made me also wish I could Jedi Mind Choke them through the screen.

One of them realized I was not going to vote for Obama this time around and sent me a three page letter on why he is the greatest thing since sliced bread. She told me she was "on a mission" for him and vows to tell everyone about the truth of how great and wonderful he is" In other words one of the brainwashed sheeple.
Once Sandyhook happened her and many others on my page were extatic to give up rights to keep themselves happy and secure in their persons. They don't mind being molested by security guards, nor do they mind their phone calls or internet or driving being tracked. I deleted my facebook not just for my privacy concerns but because I couldn't stand reading about how happy my relatives are to give up their freedoms and how they could care less about ours being taken.

It ruined my views on two relatives I cared deeply for.

Best thing you can do is not talk to them about politics. Those people were too easily brainwashed and will never come out of it and might one day come to think of you as an ememy, best to stay away from any political talk where they are concerned. There are plenty of other people who have yet to drink the koolaid but are unaware still....focus more attention on them.

edit on 24-8-2013 by brandiwine14 because: (no reason given)

I hear you! On Facebook, I actually have a group of like-minded political buddies, who will post stuff. Most of the family never comments on ANYTHING, other than personal stuff, like, no, the tornado didn't hit our town, and the like. With this one, you are right. As stated earlier, she'd be one to turn in family members.

Originally posted by ganjoa
I just love it when people use those arguments, that they don't care, that they have nothing to hide - of course, when I have those conversations it isn't online, typically face to face. I find it pretty easy to break down the arguments about privacy issues with questions like:
"does your husband/wife/father/mother know you masturbate - when was the last time you masturbated
(don't you know there's probably video of it on the internet if you have a web cam, cable tv or cell phone)

The same kind of questioning using drinking, drugging, infidelity, theft (just depends on who you're talking to and what you know about them) - also works just as well to issue a harsh dose of reality to people.

If I'm dealing with in-laws or other older folks:
when was the last time you took one of your husband's/wife's/children's/friend's prescription drugs or offered on one of your to them

how about your tax return - does the IRS know you get free blah balh from your sister/brother/father/mother or that you use your money for blah blah and don't report it

It usually pisses the person off to be asked such offensive and/or personal questions, but it NEVER fails to drive home the point that there are a multitude of things subject to surveillance that are much better left private.

You can probably guess I don't have many cordial acquaintances with questions like these.

ganjoa

I have seriously thought about being that confrontational, and probably would if in person. With this one, it wouldn't matter. Really, it's best we aren't anywhere near close to one another! It's tempting, though, to ask her really personal stuff the next time she's online. No mention of the conversation, just super prying questions.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Something happens to people when they have a kid. It's like they flip full retard and all the nonsense that the media and politicians have been scaring them with for the past two, three, four decades gets activated and the world suddenly becomes this flaming hellscape where everyone wants to eat their baby.

Considering that most people who act like there is nothing wrong have children, I don't think that's a logical assumption. I also know plenty of people with no children that can see the real issues.

You didn't state your opinion on the privacy issues. Shall we assume that means you do value yours?

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes


We must talk to the same people.

There is frustration trying to discuss things with mindsets like that. No offense to your acquaintances but they might not have that much to draw upon to provide point/counterpoint.

I have found instead of an information mega-blast, the slow drip method has proven more effective. Hopefully as they develop a more well rounded base of knowledge, new ideas and truths find more fertile ground. Otherwise, I see my points come across as 'attacking' them which was never my intent. Ergo, the name calling and being seen as a whacko.

But it is PAINFUL to see people you care about act like caricatures spouting nonsense.

reply to post by ABNARTY


I have tried slower methods, but it's like you can't say anything is wrong anywhere, at any time, without this person acting like you are nuts. This is a person that lives in a BIG city, over 2 million people, and acts as though there is "no crime" where she lives. I know for a fact that some dealers were living under two miles away (knew someone else that lived in the same area). Yet, to hear her tell it, nothing is ever wrong there. The local and state governments never do a thing wrong (even though you can read about such things in the local news, and checking the website of the station she watches...), no criminals anywhere close, and everybody loves everybody else. Suggestions for how to get anything through would be welcome.

Really, I think it's a lost cause. This is a person that is exactly what they want when they seek to brainwash people. Educated, above average intelligence, and willing to believe anything. Some days, I really wish I could "force choke" someone through a computer!

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

Does anyone remember (back in the day) when we used to think the same way?

When we watched the evening news and believed what they were telling us?
When we heard a politician speak and believed what they were saying?

There was a time when I would see a shooting star and quickly make a wish.

Now I look up and imagine; UFO, satellite, iron ore meteorite, etc.

I have family that still believes the nightly news. These are the same folks that feel that if it wasn't reported or told by the media, then it wasn't important.

To them, 2+2 = 5 because the government and media said it does.

To those of us that see the answer is 4, we will always be the fringe, the outsiders.

As for privacy? If we really wanted privacy, we wouldn't be posting on a public site.

edit on 24-8-2013 by beezzer because: (no reason given)

hihi..I remember...

aaah...the good ol' innocent times...

I often wondered...what is better...being ignorantly blissful...or knowing and suffering for it. Knowing makes much harder living...but once you break through this "matrix" of lies and deceit...there is no going back...and I wouldn't want to...not anymore.