Final conclusions on UFOs and Aliens.

Originally posted by othello
reply to post by peacefulpete

 

ok here is a question. What if the aliens do show themselves to the public and they do acknowledge God but there God in there religion which is different from ours then what?

Then there is a real problem. Already many people are saying these beings are demons and if they conflict with widely held beliefs people will say they are not from God. Religion is a huge obstacle in this and the aliens know it. They are walking on thin ice with this issue. If an alien steps out of a ufo in public the world could explode the minute his foot touches the ground...make no mistake, they are aware of this themselves.

I always liked Streiber. Communion turned me on to UFOs initially.

Originally posted by RadarOReilly
I always liked Streiber. Communion turned me on to UFOs initially.

Yes. He is a good story teller and I love to listen to him on coast to coast.

The problem with most media organizations in the US even the fringe ones such as ATS and C2C is that they do not like to hear the truth that does not originate from the US. They want to only play their own theories and that anything that originates from the US is the true story. Like the fixation to the Roswell case.

So I would not be surprised why Billy Meier was hoaxed to infinity. He fell into a trap that afflicts most contactee's such as Dr Greer and even Streiber. That is get on to the spiritual bandwagon and get into meditation and other new age religious stuff.

It is funny I say this as my own path has not been much different. I started with UFOs and ended with meditation. The reason for this is that meditation seems to protect me from the negative forces that affect most people dabbling in this field.

Originally posted by RadarOReilly
I always liked Streiber. Communion turned me on to UFOs initially.

Creepy movie.

But that was probably more Walken than the subject matter.

Originally posted by othello
reply to post by peacefulpete

 

ok here is a question. What if the aliens do show themselves to the public and they do acknowledge God but there God in there religion which is different from ours then what?

You know we are getting pretty abstract in this conversation lol.

To go with your scenario, the aliens would show themselves and also state that they acknowledge God.

Of course their religion(s) would be very different from ours. So it would be impossible for them to prove that their God is the same as ours

People would automatically think their God is different, since their religion is different.

So, if they announced their presence, it would be impossible not to run into many religious conflicts all at once! Almost every religion would have some followers who would think the aliens were somehow the evil of their religion... Chaos!

Originally posted by EnPassant

Originally posted by peacefulpete

Originally posted by EnPassant
reply to post by BO XIAN

 

Yes and that's one of the problems they have about revealing themselves; they would have to openly acknowledge God and exhibit a real commitment to good if they came amongst us. If they deny God they are in big trouble. If the pope said "they are not on our side" billions of people would turn against them. Televisions would be overheating with talk shows about them. No, they must acknowledge God if they reveal themselves. This is an immensely complicated issue for them.

Interesting theory which I had never thought of. That an obligation to acknowledge God is the major issue that keeps them from revealing themselves openly.

But being super intelligent and advanced in probably all aspects of life: I guess I doubt that this WOULD be an issue that they couldn't figure it out. They'd be able to easily understand the issue and decide how to work out the religious implications... If they wanted to...

The problem is, if they are not on God's side, how will they acknowledge Him? What if they really are spiritually evil, rebellious towards God? This is the problem.

Well anything is possible...

What would your scenario look like though? Are you imagining that they would announce their presence, BUT not be able to acknowledge God when they are asked? Like they'd be unable to say the words or something, because they're evil?

Just wondering how you picture it...

Originally posted by peacefulpete

Originally posted by EnPassant

Originally posted by peacefulpete

Originally posted by EnPassant
reply to post by BO XIAN

 

Yes and that's one of the problems they have about revealing themselves; they would have to openly acknowledge God and exhibit a real commitment to good if they came amongst us. If they deny God they are in big trouble. If the pope said "they are not on our side" billions of people would turn against them. Televisions would be overheating with talk shows about them. No, they must acknowledge God if they reveal themselves. This is an immensely complicated issue for them.

Interesting theory which I had never thought of. That an obligation to acknowledge God is the major issue that keeps them from revealing themselves openly.

But being super intelligent and advanced in probably all aspects of life: I guess I doubt that this WOULD be an issue that they couldn't figure it out. They'd be able to easily understand the issue and decide how to work out the religious implications... If they wanted to...

The problem is, if they are not on God's side, how will they acknowledge Him? What if they really are spiritually evil, rebellious towards God? This is the problem.

Well anything is possible...

What would your scenario look like though? Are you imagining that they would announce their presence, BUT not be able to acknowledge God when they are asked? Like they'd be unable to say the words or something, because they're evil?

Just wondering how you picture it...

Yes that's exactly how I see it. There would be talk shows on tv with philosophers, cardinals, the Dali Lama, atheists, scientists and all kinds of people arguing about what disclosure means in spiritual terms and the aliens would have to calm all this with very carefully chosen words. They would have to acknowledge God. One word out of place and they would be under the spotlight "What do you mean by that?". If they pretend ignorance of God, suspicions will be aroused "What are they hiding?" Already many people are saying they are demons. Believe me, they are on a razor's edge with this one. And the pope will be expected to make a statement but what he says will depend on what they say first. One false move and billions of religious people will turn against them. It is not just a question of them stepping out of a ufo saying Hello. Even in human affairs a presidential candidate must acknowledge God or he will not be elected.

Publicly there is as much proof that ufos exist as there is a stealth bomber exist. More people have spoken publicly about the insides of a ufo than people have spoke about the inside of a stealth yet we know the stealth exists . Pictures, Witnesses, presidents and generals.

Idk, a technologically advanced race still following tribal believes would seem highly unlikely.

An alien race that friendly would ether study the cultures religion, and pretend they believe in God, or they could just say "Don't make me slap you", attitude cause they'd have little patience for such things, but still be friendly.

An alien race that would still believe in such things, but have such technological standards, would be rather scary for better or for worse(which most likely is worse) like Klingons from ST or Protoss from Starcraft. Or you could have un-friendly acting friendly by speaking in religious manners, where the idea of fallen angels come from.

They could still maintain some knowledge of their own(how should we say) pre-modern gods, or they could understand so much more about the universe then us humans could realize.

However, again, advanced civilizations would seem to be more of the Atheist type.

reply to post by Specimen


Your thesis is based on the non existence of God but many people don't think as you do. This is why there would be mayhem if they deny or pretend.

My final conclusions on aliens, after at least three decades of intensive study -

1. Aliens almost certainly exist, somewhere in the universe. Life elsewhere is probably near ubiquitous, statistically speaking..

2. Almost all, if not all, of the stories and theories about aliens visiting this planet are rubbish - exaggerated accounts of misidentification, hysteria, outright hoaxes or similar.

Even if you take what are considered the absolute best cases, it nearly always boils down to the null hypothesis pointing to the truth..

3. The abduction phenomena is purely a psychological or cultural one.

I must say, years of lurking at ATS helped push me over the edge. Just the constant, constant crazy. Crazy stuff would be continually brought up, and completely debunked - only to be forgotten and brought up, again, and again, and again ad infinitum. This years hoaxes, will become next years stories, again and again. Once you see this, for what it is, it's a bit of a revelation..

reply to post by ReturnofTheSonOfNothing


ATS is a clearing house for ideas. there are some in depth threads here but many ideas are just thrown up for discussion. if you want to come to a conclusion, of sorts, you need to read books by reputable people who have studied the subject.

reply to post by EnPassant


Not sure if that was directed at me, but if so, why do you assume I haven't read any books by respected authors on the subject?

Originally posted by ReturnoftheSonofNothing
reply to post by EnPassant

 

Not sure if that was directed at me, but if so, why do you assume I haven't read any books by respected authors on the subject?

Well, i think the more respected authors such as Jenny Randles and Timothy Good have made a convincing case. Also the accusation that contactees/abductees are hallucinating, are not convincing. If you examine the alternative - that humanity is going through an hallucinatory phase - you have an even more unbelivable theory to justify...

reply to post by EnPassant


Read them. Read Vallee, Heinek, Keyhoe, Moore & Friedman. Read Steiger, Streiber, Bruce Cathie, Von Daniken ad infitum. Read god knows this that and the other....


Since the late 70's I've been devouring this stuff. I've probably read more so called "reputable" UFOlogists et al than many people here.

It might seem convincing, but not after you have read/watched/listened to a good skeptical breakdown with a truly open mind.

Check out Carl Sagans breakdown of the Betty & Barney Hill case.

Listen to Skeptoid podcasts (he covers many cases).
Skeptoid #79: Roswell
Read Sagan's "Demon Haunted World". It's a classic and well worth the read.

Listen to Stuart Robbins' Exposing Pseudo Astronomy
Exposing Pseudo Astronomy: John Lear

I guarantee, if you do it with a truly open mind, it will break the spell. Some of these cases won't seem so amazing anymore.

"This does not mean that I conclude in anyway the content presented in the above video is the final truth or evidence. "

Yet the title of this thread is 'FINAL CONCLUSIONS' so my 'Final' conclusion is your just trolling.

Originally posted by 0pass
I happened to watch the following video today and finally have come to some conclusions on the UFO phenomenon.

Contact Billy Meier Video


This does not mean that I conclude in anyway the content presented in the above video is the final truth or evidence.

But after watching this video today and then last night listening to the following Whitley Strieber discussion on Coast to Coast, I realized finally what would the truth behind the UFO phenomenon.

Whitley Streiber on C2C

The conclusions are as follows:

1. The UFO phenomenon is real. There is enough evidence to prove this as evidence in the above videos.There are many more such evidences. For one you can refer to majesticdocuments.com for more factual evidences.

2. There are two types of UFOs. One type of UFO is clearly Alien in origin and another clearly terrestrial. The saucer shaped UFOs are primarily Alien in origin as they have appeared in pictures even in the bible. The other types of UFOs such as triangular, cylindrical, etc are of terrestrial origin notably the result of black budget projects.

3. The real Aliens are peaceful spiritual entities who have been protecting us over the years by engaging with people like Billy Meier and then there are fake Aliens such as the Greys and reptilians that engage in abductions primarily to create fear about Aliens among us humans and dissuade credible researchers such as Whitley from pursuing their research.

4. We have clearly the technology to travel to the stars such as Hyperspace propulsion (as is evidenced in the above video on some scientists talking about it in 1978) and other electromagnetic propulsion systems. This technology requires us to master faster than light technology such as the one proposed by me and many others. Information on technology researched by me is available on the following link:

Gravitational Electrical Effects

5. The owners of the terrestrial advanced technologies here on earth do not want us to believe in UFOs or Aliens so that they can be the only masters of this technology and profit from it as well as maintain their power over everyone here on earth. The peaceful alien civilizations are now helpless in preventing this as is evidenced and mentioned in the above Billy Meier Video as well as the campaign by Dr Greer to get this out in the open.

6. The Aliens are not some odd looking creatures but those that look like us in many respects as has been evidenced in many credible UFO sightings such as in the case of Billy Meier and others. There are however some other creatures or hybrids created in terrestrial labs such as the ones experienced by Whitley Streiber and also notably the Bigfoot phenomenon and other devilish creatures.

7. More and more people are coming out with the truth as is now evidenced by Edward Snowden's disclosure about the NSA scandal and reason why they want to make an example of what will happen to those who pursue this course and many UFO researchers and whistle blowers have died under mysterious circumstances. For example Micheal Hastings, John Edward Mack, Karla Turner, and many others.

So it is time to introspect and understand the truth and realize that it is not very much far away from the conclusions I have drawn here.

edit on 22-8-2013 by 0pass because: youtube video links

reply to post by ReturnofTheSonOfNothing


Many thanks for the links. You have a healthy scepticism about the issue and I would not try to convert you to something you have made up your mind about. But I think differently. I am aware of these beings and so are many other people and I believe, by and large, that these people are aware of something real, because I see it.

Carl Sagan was originally open-minded about ufos but he done a u-turn. In the video he says, at .58, that ufology has more to do with religion and superstition than science. Well, I don't think religion and superstition are the same thing and I don't think that a subject has to be scientifically proven to be accepted; there are things in this world that simply will not lend themselves to scientific enquiry and I think it is disingenuous to limit belief to what can be scientifically demonstrated.

At 4:43 he says that people 'chiefly' believe in the Hill case because of the star map. This is not true. There is much more to the case than that and many other cases back up the events described in the case. Villas Boas is one case in question and information from these to cases did not cross-contaminate each other.

There is also the condescending, sarcastic tone of his presentation and this makes me think he has an agenda and a bias - not things that are conducive to objective study. His only real criticism of the case is in terms of the star map. Well, yes there would be surrounding stars to complicate the map but this means very little as there would always be such stars. The tone of his presentation is almost unbearably smug.

I have debated many subjects with scientistic atheists and materialists and I find them to be so rigid in their thinking it is very hard to get them to open up to even the most compelling testimony of people who are more trusting of direct personal experience (no reflection on your mentality here ). But thanks, it is good to look at both sides of the coin.