Were These Really Used To Take Over 4 Plane's ?

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

A few burnt out, dope addict, conveneintly muslim, terrorist twerps, had box cutters and
held how many people at bay? As they took them to their deaths?

There is some obvious instincts for self preservation being totally
ignored here. This is what goes on when a story is fabricated.

The fabrication does not mesh with reality. This is how fabrication is detected.

Or purposely neglected. Out of plain old fear. Fear that the world is not what
they ( those who neglact ) wish to believe it is.

But it sure as hell isn't.

a reply to: randyvs

Go look at every hijacking ever before 9/11. It didn't matter what weapons they had, people didn't fight back.

a reply to: Iwinder

Good point for sure, but what your hypothetical is lacking is the fact there would be huge amounts of adrenaline involved in a real box cutter versus a victim whom has a good reason to fight for life.

For devil's advocate purposes wouldn't it be fair to say that someone who has waited months and perhaps years for the very moment to arrive and who along with others is allegedly staking their whole afterlife on the outcome of said moment might catch the adrenaline bug as well? Particularly if it was one of the ones who allegedly just come off of already killing a flight attendant or a pilot?

a reply to: randyvs

Usually hostages are just pawns in a hijacking and are only good to the terrorists if they are still alive. Hard to bargain for things without your collateral. It's understandable why people would assume the whole thing would blow over eventually if they could just make it through alive. No one expected to just happen to be in the wrong place during a suicide mission.

a reply to: TheBolt

How does: [ I could possibly die in this situation, but if I
do anything rash I might get a nasty cut and get an infection.]
become viable as a rational thought process? And how do some
people go on believing their perfectly normal be refusing to
confront the more obvious. FABRICATION, being the first thing
anyone who knows people lie, would think.

I don't get it, not for the life of me. Only fear can explain it.

a reply to: randyvs

I'm not the worlds biggest supporter of the OS by any stretch but I'm actually getting a little irked at the way people are treating this particular subject. Not only does it keep coming up how easy it would apparently be to have defeated the terrorists but now it has been reduced by more than one person to basically that everyone aboard the planes was stupid and ridiculous for not even trying. The only explanation is FABRICATION??? That is extremely disrespectful. As an OS disputer even I am turned off by the scorn in some of these posts.

a reply to: TheBolt

There are a great many reasons why I'm not a part of these
threads more often. But not one of them is fear of calling
'em like I see 'em. I only thought the story was fabricated from
my first view of the towers fall. That thought grew to knowing it
to be fact in just a few following days. All on my own uninfluenced
by Alex or the internet at all. The internet, Alex and then ATS all
came after that for me. Because they were all talking of that which
I myself decided was fact. So disrespect? Who is it I'm supposed to
be respecting? Perhaps if I knew that, I would be a bigger player
in dismantlling the official hoax. Because it amounts to total
disrespect towards yourself, me and the entire future.

a reply to: randyvs

Because, again, that's not the thought process. The thought process was "We'll be on the ground soon, and in a little while this will be over and I'll be on my way home".

a reply to: randyvs

I guess it depends on what parts of the story you feel are lies, but to believe the whole 9/11 thing was a lie partially on the fact that you KNOW these innocent victims should have fought back but did nothing is saying one of two things: either you don't believe there were any hijackings at all (which would mean there is no one to disrespect the memory of, so fine) OR you feel all the passengers and crew on these four flights are equally to blame for the whole event for not stopping it when it was so obvious they should have like would have. If you believe there were no hijackings then I guess I respectfully disagree with that theory and apologize for falling you disrespectful. If the second is true though then that is something I can't accept anyone saying about the passengers.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

Well i have to say i have seen plenty of people that attempted to wield a chib get there arse handed to them on a plate with nothing more than fists. That being said i have also seen people get there face taken off with one of these things, but they never died. The veracity of the weapon in question is not the point, i accept the fact that such a device can do tremendous superficial and serious damage, but its not a killing weapon per-say. Plenty of people would be quite willing to take-on someone armed with a box cutter, especially so when threatened with hi-jack. End of the day through, like rather a few other posters have pointed out, the people probably thought they were going to walk away safely from the incident, they had no knowledge as to the fact that they would soon go smack bang into those towers at 500+ mph(Is that even possible through? given the altitude and engine design 300-400 mph is far more realistic). Simply lambs to the slaughter really.

a reply to: andy06shake

Having been stabbed on a couple of different occasions, I'm not real anxious to repeat the experience. I've been on the unarmed end of a fight involving a knife...again, not real anxious to repeat it. But if I have to, I would. But I go into it with the experience of knowing I'm going to get hurt, probably badly. I've had experience with knives, more than the vast majority of people do, and they're bloody dangerous, especially when the wielder has nothing, not one thing, to lose. He's out to die...doesn't really, in the end, matter to him when, 'cause he's gonna kill a bunch of people no matter how it works out.

It easy, in retrospect, to say that those passengers should have ganged up and disarmed the hijackers... Very easy. I've heard it said many times.

No one of those passengers or crew knew what was going to happen, save for the flight that crashed in Pennsylvania. Had they? I'm sure someone would have tried. Once they knew? It was too late.

Hijacked aircraft before 9-11 didn't generally crash deliberately. The crews set them down safely, and hoped for the best.

Not everyone is a hero. I'm not. I'm not a big fan of shedding blood, especially my own.

We weren't there. We don't know what really happened, how. Easy to say that a bunch of people shoulda done this, shoulda done that... Very easy, you're doing it. So, too, have a bunch of others. It's all conjecture.

Less easy to do when you're looking at a group of guys who've already probably killed aircrew, who have control of the cockpit, which limits the avenue of attack. They know the direction you're coming from, where you have to go. Etc...

We weren't there.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Nope. I used to carry a small folding knife on my belt when flying to and from Alaska on commercial flights.

a reply to: seagull

Stabbed and slashed is a different experience altogether, you can be slashed numerous times and not even feel it in any significant manner(obviosly its in the post). If you have been plunged as you say you will know the difference? Blood comes out, and your heart beats, it quite surreal and to be honest, rather humbling truth be told. Its like the strength if drained from you, and you wonder how the hell did that happen? Then the blood pours out again, and it kind of comes to you as long as you don't lose consciousness, truth is it kind of feels tranquil.

Its not about being a hero, its about they move, you move, or at the end of the day your there female dog. Nice to be nice and all that jazz.

If Terrorists wish to capture planes and do nefarious things with them i suggest they do it over Scotland, they will find out what Young Toi(or old Toi as the case may be these days) is all about! Have to say it did not work out to well regarding their Glasgow Airport attempt, like i said its nice to be nice, and then some.

My question to you has to be, having being stabbed yourself, would you repeat the experience should it possibly subvert you being hijacked?

Spanner in there works is all it takes to derail there plans. What was it Mr Spock said "The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the one or the few" seems rather applicable does it not?

a reply to: seagull

I'm not anxious to re experience it again either. Totally and completely agree with everything you just posted. In a lot of ways I think we're all arguing different sides of the same coin. We are all in agreement basically that knowing what we know now most of us guys would try and take down the terrorists.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: randyvs

Because, again, that's not the thought process. The thought process was "We'll be on the ground soon, and in a little while this will be over and I'll be on my way home".

With all due respect......That`s your thought process.
You can`t just say because you know what you`d do or what protocol states, that that is what four groups of flight attendants or passengers would think or do.

a reply to: lambros56

So you're just going to ignore the ALPA, the union for the pilots, when they say the same thing? And the flight attendants Union, when they say the same thing? Because you disagree?

govinfo.library.unt.edu...

Google books

Before the September 11, 2001 attacks, most hijackings involved the plane landing at a certain destination, followed by the hijackers making negotiable demands. Pilots and flight attendants were trained to adopt the "Common Strategy" tactic, which was approved by the FAA. It taught crew members to comply with the hijackers' demands, get the plane to land safely and then let the security forces handle the situation. Crew members advised passengers to sit quietly in order to increase their chances of survival. They were also trained not to make any 'heroic' moves that could endanger themselves or other people. The FAA realized that the longer a hijacking persisted, the more likely it would end peacefully with the hijackers reaching their goal.

en.m.wikipedia.org...


Maybe try looking into something before telling someone they don't know what they're talking about, beyond listening to one person that agrees with you.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

We are all in agreement basically that knowing what we know now most of us guys would try and take down the terrorists.

This is a reply to you but it's for everyone. You're half right but the key words are KNOWING WHAT WE KNOW NOW. I don't think two or three of the people here are arguing in hindsight. At least one person has said that even without knowing they are arguing the people should have fought back anyway, even flight attendants. I don't think that's fair.

a reply to: seagull

We weren't there.

True, but we sure know they had box cutters.

a reply to: Zaphod58

From your post...., and in a little while this will be over and I'll be on my way home".

To me, that`s expressing someone else`s thoughts. Which is why i said you can`t know what people are thinking.
I`m not arguing with protocols and instructions that are given.

What does this mean...?..beyond listening to one person that agrees with you.

a reply to: lambros56

All Zaphod58 is saying is that everything pointed to not reacting. Protocol you aren't arguing with so you can understand why the crew wouldn't argue with it either. In a plane things can change very quickly even without a hijacking. Every situation has a checklist and a protocol so that the pilots and crew can react quickly and swiftly to anything. This was like any other situation. The protocol was clearly laid out and the crew would have followed it. As far as passengers go the majority would simply listen to the crew for answers and instructions as is what usually happens. That's not assuming what people would think, it's how people react in times of crisis. They need the authority and the sense of control from those who are in the position of leadership. Who would you trust more in the cabin on a flight than a flight attendant?
Now for those mavericks out there, maybe it is making an assumption on their thoughts but going off history up to that point the thought was that the hijackers would be focused on getting their demands met and then they would move on. It's not unfair to say the thought process was most likely that if they just shut up and did what they were told the hijackers wouldn't bother with them. The flight attendants were telling them that, the hijackers were telling them that and there were already dead bodies on some of the flights. That would me more than enough to convince a reasonable person to stay put.