Cleveland/Lake Erie Cargill Salt Mine Shut Down

Cargill owns a 50 year old salt mine...four miles off shore from the City of Cleveland and 1800 deep down. The mines provides road de-icing salt for the midAtlantic region.

For the coming winter, here in the Rustbelt this will have financial implications as state and local road crews will have to purchase salt from suppliers other than Cargill. At some point, if the mine does not reopen, road salt shortages may occur. Minor problems though when compared...

To a possible manor geological issue located a scant distance from a major US city. The mine floor has either risen or the ceiling suddenly lowered...the shifting causing Cargill to send 100+ workers home (fortunately w/pay) for the rest of the week til geologists and Ohio state officials discern all safety concerns.

www.cleveland.com...

I have been following the major sinkhole in Louisiana thread here on ATS (salt domes there) and my first thoughts when I read the Cleveland story was the "Cayce Map" now with two salt/mine/dome issues at the top and bottom effectively of the US map.

Just another "FRAGILE EARTH" issue to be alert to.

another sinkhole open up..make chaos all nearby..

reply to post by Glinda

But operations suddenly shut down Monday, and workers were sent home after a sensor in a “mined” tunnel detected a geological shift.

wthell?? geological shift? lookslike dengerous..

reply to post by cheesy


AMEN on the inherent dangers--and remember this is FOUR MILES from downtown Cleveland OH. The implications can be far reaching (both to the geology of the area and the economics of the Rust Belt).

A story to definitely watch.

I know that there ARE fault lines around the Lake Erie region, and later today I hope to research proximity to Cargill Mine location.

Maybe thats the plan for Detroit . It is over a huge salt mine WOOO HOOO GOOD BYE DETROIT HELLOW LAKE DETROIT. Salt water fishing in Michigan

reply to post by Glinda


If this mine were to collapse it would probably be the final blow to Clevelands economy. I wonder how far the lake level would fall. Lake Erie is not all that deep in the first place.

I live approximately 2 miles from this mine. When I read the story I couldn't help but think about what would happen if the ceiling of this mine collapsed? This will be a huge disaster should this mine collapse. Being only 2 miles away I wonder if we'll feel it should it finally go?

Not to mention this mine was my go to plan in a SHTF scenario. Damn, now what?

reply to post by TDawgRex


The economic ramifications are far reaching. Yes...any sort of permanent shut down would have an immediate impact (already 100 workers are off for rest of work week, but fortunately w/pay). Eventually all "above ground" Cargill employees would also be impacted at that site. The reduced output of salt would have an economic impact on the municipalities depending upon Cargill--other suppliers, further shipping distances, higher costs. But,

A collapse would economically catastrophic for the "Rust Belt." Salt demand notwithstanding, shipping and manufacturing along LE (if compromised even for weeks) could be compromised w/resulting job losses; foreclosures; etc in an area that is already economically challenge.

Hoping for the best, but dreading what could occur.

reply to post by Glinda


If it does go, I guess I'll be investing in whatever company gets the rights to start dredging the lake out. Not to mention all the ship traffic that would be stranded as those will have to be recovered as well.

When given lemons, make lemonade and all that.

posting so i don't loose this, digging for more info before i reply on this

Want to keep my eye on this.

Posting so that I can do just that.

Found this and it helped me understand your reference to the map

It starts out by showing the graph for the tremors at the LA sinkhole, with pictures of the water draining out of the lake, and then ties the map to the Cargill salt dome (to an extent).

reply to post by Jusvistn


Thanks for that vid. I new that the mine was big but I didn't know it was that big.

I wonder if the mine collapsed if it would effect structures downtown as well? That would suck...no pun intended.

reply to post by TDawgRex


The company I work for has quite a bit of interaction with Cargill, if anything comes down through the grapevine, I'll keep you posted.

No proprietary information of course, but the rumor mill can be quite educational

I checked the Cleveland local media this am...NO further updates have been given on the Cargill mine situation, but I did find this from Fox8 in Cleveland...it gives a bit more info than yesterday's Plain Dealer story did. Most fascinating to me, 2 pull quotes 1) This current shifting is NOT the first time in the 50 year history of the Cargill mine that this type of incident has occurred; and 2) it was mentioned that this shift COULD be due to the "crushing weight of Lake Erie ABOVE the salt mine/seam. Odd, almost hyperbolic wording to me atleast.

fox8.com...


Was too busy at work yesterday to research faultline maps and overlay on Cargill mine map...the seam/tunnels/caves are massive. Here is just a Wiki map of the land side part of the operation:

wikimapia.org...

Again, I hope to have some free time to find the actual footprint of the mine UNDER the Lake and then find faultline.

Fortunately, NO news (updates) I'll take as "good news."

reply to post by Jusvistn


THANK YOU for posting that (now I have to try to find that guy's YouTube channel--great research!)

My back story, I don't live in Louisiana (or Cleveland for that matter) but I have been following (lurking) on the ATS thread on the massive Assumption Parish sinkhole. I saw the now infamous "Cyprus trees disappearing" video late Wednesday night. Yesterday morning by happenstance I saw the Cargill story and my hair just stood on end. I couldn't let go of the mental image of the US NAVY (or Cayce map) of the divide of the continental US. Your linkers video just confirmed to me my "gut" reaction.

If it collapase the effect would be bad but the lake would recover in a few days . Niagra falls might dry up for a few days so toursism would go crazy.From what I read it moved around 1 / 100th of an inch. The lake will survive

Originally posted by Jusvistn
reply to post by TDawgRex

 

The company I work for has quite a bit of interaction with Cargill, if anything comes down through the grapevine, I'll keep you posted.

No proprietary information of course, but the rumor mill can be quite educational

Thanks I would apprciate that. I'm pretty sure that I would not be affected by a collapse as I live 15 mi. south of there but I do know people who do live in or close to that area and could provide some support for them at least.

Nothing new today.... at least what anyone is talking about,

still waiting for the expert reports to come in that is supposed to determine if it's sinking, or if the ceiling is coming down, or if it's a natural movement of the location. watching USGS, no tremors so that is good, and Yay and Kudos to Cargill if its nothing and they are just working to keep their staff safe

Originally posted by Glinda
it was mentioned that this shift COULD be due to the "crushing weight of Lake Erie ABOVE the salt mine/seam. Odd, almost hyperbolic wording to me atleast.

fox8.com...

Here is some information on the water levels of the Great Lakes.

Lakes Superior and Michigan-Huron water levels are 7 and 4 inches, respectively, above their levels at this time last year. Lakes St. Clair, Erie, and Ontario are 6, 9, and 13 inches, respectively, above their levels of a year ago

Source


I also wrote a thread about the topic earlier this year

Dangerous Gas theory in relation to earthquakes and increased seismic activity

From the thread above:

Now the big question remains; how are the earthquakes related to dangerous gases. This is a theory proposed a few years back in a book by James McGuire entitled Waking the Giant: How a changing climate triggers earthquakes, tsunamis and volcanoes, where the author states that the melting ice at the poles relieves pressure on the earth’s continental plates. The slightest pressure change will cause tectonic movement resulting in earthquakes. Basically, as the atmosphere heats up, we are experiencing a rapid thawing of Arctic ice. As the ice retreats, all that weight relieves pressure on the Earth’s crust which would naturally cause it to adjust.

According to an article on NPR.org the summer of 2012 saw the most dramatic ice melt in several thousand years. It literally smashed records. Of course there is always melt in the summer time, about half the ice, but the article points out three quarters of the ice melted this past summer. The previous record for ice melt was in 2007, also within the time frame of the rapid methane increase in the atmosphere. The additional ice melt this year was the size of Texas. That’s a lot of ice and a lot of weight on the continental plates.

As the ice retreats relieving pressure on those plates, it causes the water levels to rise, which is another point of pressure on the Earth’s crust. Keep in mind that the plates underneath the oceans are more fragile than land-based plates. Taking that into consideration, you can see that it’s not going to take much extra mass to cause seismic instability. Every square mile of water that is one meter deep is nearly 6 billion pounds. Sure, the waters haven’t risen that much, but consider any additional height is going to add billions of pounds of extra mass into the oceans and the level of the water rising isn’t going to be the same throughout the globe. Some areas are going to experience more sea level rise than others. That’s more pressure on certain areas which would heighten the seismic activity.

An interesting thing to note about all this is the timing of several small earthquakes off the coast of Britian in the Irish Sea, which is a place that rarely sees earthqaukes and there are no plate boundaries.

"Although Britain and Ireland are far from any plate boundaries, much of the region is still experiencing quakes due to the removal of the weight of ice sheets that once covered the land. Occasionally this post-glacial isostatic rebound - the phenomenon of the land surface gradually returning to its pre-glacial contours - results in earthquakes of this magnitude, particularly in the northern half of the islands.

Source

The story says that its caused by ice retreat from as far back as the glacial period, but in articles sited in my thread above, their is rapid ice melt occurring now. The article on the Irish Sea quake says that these have occured in the past, such as in 1984 and 1931, but this is twice now this year.

When the ice retreats from over land, it adds water to the world's oceans and possibly even the Great Lakes as well as other lakes, which could result in the situation you have today in Cleveland.