Problem with Christianity

I understand your need to sort of try and rationalize it and try and use your intellect to explain it all. I guess that's human nature. And having an opinion on something is too. But to use intellect to somehow figure out something that's spiritual I don't think is the correct approach. It's like looking at chocolate ice cream, never having tasted it but having a general idea of it and trying to explain it. or looking at an instrument and same thing. First you have to be picked, and then if you have been given the secrets of the knowledge of the truth then you can get into the spirit so you know. And then when you do that God in his time will reveal certain things about himself to you to help you know that for sure he's there. That being said I think God would only fall into one documented being and I believe it's the God of the bible. All other religions are just basically man made cults. Philosophies turned ritualistic, and then people try and use those to have some kind of spiritual experience. And they likely do. But are they actually tuning into God. I doubt it. then also you'll never fully explain it all, even with the help of the bible, because Christianity is meant to have an element of faith. You have to have faith. Like all that is is I believe there's a trinity God, heaven and hell, angels etc etc even though I've never seen them. I know there out there. You just got to have faith. Because really I think if you don't have any belief in anything beyond this world then that's a sad existence. I'd go nuts if I wasn't able to have faith in a higher power. But again each to there own. We all have our own opinions etc.

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest


I meant didn't Mary have a father, not Eve, sorry. If Mary had a father, wouldn't that mean the sin would have passed to her? How can a sinful woman give birth to god? If you believe in the immaculate conception of Mary, why couldn't god do that for all of us? If he did it once, he could do it again.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Tell that to Jesus, who accepted a ton of worship, which for a jew would have been blasphemy and idolatry. You can find him being worshipped in all the Gospels not just the book of John.

The Greek word for "worship" in the NT was proskuneo, which also meant an act of homage, not the worship of God that Jesus himself engaged in. Refer to this link

The same word is "proskuneo" is also used in Revelations 3:9, where other people received "worship".

Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. -Revelations 3:9

(Note that the word "worship" is not used in many later translations. )


Does it mean these people were also worshiped as God is? Obviously not. The same applies for Jesus, who himself worshiped God.

reply to post by Astrocyte

It's you who has boxed yourself in. Do you realize there are a few other theorists out there coming from different traditions permuting different languages making similar claims to yours? Does this not beg the question?

I respect your post, but you are in error with your conclusion. The CURSE is what you are denouncing. What is that curse? Babel. What is the plan and path out of the curse and cloud of confusion over the land?

Revelation 1

“Look, he is coming with the clouds [VEIL],”
and “every eye will see him [Faith becomes Fact],
even those who pierced him”;
and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”
So shall it be! Amen [TRUE].

You mirror many of the doubts other people possess. I am not merely restricting myself to Hebrew. There is no doubt that Phoenician is the root of Semitic languages. I believe it to be a root of the pre-flood language. Additionally, I believe the story of Babel. I am also aware that shadows of the true word can be found in all languages by symbol. Greek is a prime example.

Hebrew is a concrete language and has 22 letters. Greek is an abstract / mathematical language with 24 letters. DNA is a language of 46 chromosomes, producing proteins in root formation just like the morphology of language. 2 pairs of 22 chromosomes, with 2 sex chromosomes, make up the human genome. When proteins render a body from information, we get a two sided human (Concrete and Abstract). There is no accident in this. Language is collapsing wave function shadow produced by DNA. DNA is a collapsed wave function of light.

A 1D line is but a shadow of a 2D plane. A 3D object casts down a 2D shadow. A 3D object moving in time is but a shadow of past, present and future (4D). Time is a shadow of 5D probabilities as the observer collapses wave function. Our choice to move is a process of this collapsing wave function each moment of time. The moment of 'now' is the shadow of this wave function collapse from the top down. You can move all you like, but your 2D shadow will follow. The same holds true for language. It is the shadow of a larger and more complex process above called WORD.

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Essentially, you are saying it is too hard to understand and there are too many shadows to examine, therefore, it is all false. On the contrary, Hebrew is a root language that reflects both concrete verbs and nouns and abstract pictographs of symbolic representation. It has phonics and it has a numbering system associated. Greek is an abstract language and also contains all the mathematical constants in nature. These two languages alone are enough to show the same shadows in other languages. Men do not create languages. Languages are a shadow of the DNA. DNA is a shadow of the true language of information contained in light. What is the purpose of concrete and abstract? Chirality is the right and left handed aspect of duality in nature. Coalescence is the act of combining two to make one. Bet Nun is your seed in this refinery of left and right hand joining in union. There is a purpose for you to be Cain moving to Abel. Jacob must claim the birthright over Esau. You have an angel above waiting (Matthew 18). "10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven. "

Greek and Latin

AMN in Hebrew is TRUE. We get the word AMEN from this.

In Greek and Latin, AMN is LAMB.

AMNi is River of Life
AMNio is a bowl or lamb
AMNion is the bowl catching the sacrifice of the lamb. Also the sac surrounding the baby in the womb.
AMNiotic Fluid is the water of the womb
AMNesia is forgetting as a condition of the water
AMNesty is forgiveness
dAMNation is not forgiving.

In Hebrew, eilim means a false god. Neph is a cloud or to fall (nephelē). Nephilim are the fallen beings of Genesis 6, propping themselves up as gods. In Arabic, ilim is defined as science and knowledge. They are the Giants (Mighty Ones of renown). Elim means “the mighty ones” in Hebrew. In Genesis 3, Satan temped mankind with knowledge. Our Fall (NEPH) is the result of two things: Divine error and Selfish Pride. All of this is a design by God. The Fall is a Destiny as a Refinery. What is refined? Mankind, Powers, Principalities and future rules of heavenly realms. ALL of it is a vast design by a God that manages it all by giving and never taking. You say, "HE takes life." Really? You must be born again. You say his rules are invariable. I say yes. This is what invariable symmetry in physics represents from the Strong House (Aleph Bet). Letters of information must be perfect above. Below, they are shadows of the true work to allow individuation to rise to new life (Evolve). It's a process called involution and evolution. Read about it on Wikipedia, then compare to the words of Greek and Latin I list from the root AMN. There is a reason you have amnesia.

With a few simple words from five languages (English, Greek, Latin, Hebrew, Arabic), I have shown a connection between each to form one symbol. That symbol then mirrors Genesis 3, Jude 1, the entire gospel message, baptism and on the list goes. There are seven rules of the scribe that allow us to unBabel these languages into the original symbols that show the root story. The story is ALWAYS consistent.

Seven Rules of Hillel

Beyond this, there is yet another layer of numbers, as you say, that describe each word by association above and below to nature and the mathematical constants found in nature.

Scripture is outlined in symbol by four layers.

1) P'shat - Direct, Simple (For example, do unto others...)

2) Remez - Hinting (For example, 1 Kings 17 is all about baptism. Elijah is John the Baptist in NT).

3) Darash - Commentary, comparison. (Example: Running a race is the same as our path in life to the goal).

4) Sod - Deep hidden.

Hebrew hermeneutics requires us to interpret numbers, letters, root morphemes, pictographs and several other layers of meaning that ALL AGREE! The fact that it is so utterly connected and complicated should be our first REASONABLE clue that it is a shadow of something MUCH larger. DNA, for example, is incomprehensible and complex for our complete understanding. Language is a lower order so we can understand what is evident. Romans 1 clearly states the case that NATURE provides the true symbol to show God as evident in the rest. We are without excuse if we fail to notice something larger at work in our lives.

You are implying that none of it has a connection to truth. On the contrary, it all has a connection. We are simply too unreasonable and unintelligent to see it clearly.

AMN is TRUE. Pictorgraphs state it this way (Aleph (Strong) Mem (Water) Nun (Seed)). Strong waters and seed.

TRUTH is ALEPH MEM TAV - (Strong waters to save). Tav is the cross. Greek AMN is Lamb and the story of our involution as Sons (Bet Num) and houses of seed in the water. We either gain amnesty or dAMNation. What makes the difference? FAITH, HOPE and LOVE.

If you reduce God to chaos that cannot be seen or understood, you may very well get what you ask for. As creation rises to the next level, so can we. We are promised a new Crown (Mind) and a new Robe (Body). I, for one, look forward to the new day when shadows are removed and the cloud (Neph) is lifted.

Revelation 22

22 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. 3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. 4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. 5 There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

AMEN

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

Eve was tempted, Adam's sin was greater as he ate the fruit without being tempted.

I see no complicity in the crime on Adam's part being described in Genesis.
Eve had to get up close to even see what the fruit looked like, to decide if she thought that it looked good to eat.
When she gave Adam some to eat, it does not say that she told him where she got them.
The realization that there was a problem would have been when Adam realized there was a problem, that his "eyes were opened".

reply to post by borntowatch

You break the law and you will be condemned by the law, if you cant afford to pay the fine then find a friend who can pay it for you.

The natural law, God the judge, Jesus the friend who pays your fine.

Where does it say in the Bible that there is a "fine".
Where does it say in the Bible that Jesus "paid" for anything?
Where does it say in the Bible that there is a such thing as "natural law"?

reply to post by TheSubversiveOne

If one understands God as a reality, he is therefore is limiting it in story form. I just see this as a sort of contradiction.

One is an individual's personal experience, the other is communicating that to people who have not yet had such an experience.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

You're telling me that Yahweh (supposedly Jesus' Father) . . .

Some people make the mistake of thinking that.
The Old Testament character sometimes called YHWH was the national deity of certain Canaanite tribes who formed a treasonous confederation in the hill country of that province of Egypt, then Assyria, then Babylon, then Persia, then the Greeks, and then the Romans.
"God" as in the God of the New Testament was not the same person, but is a universal god of all people of this world.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

The Greek word for "worship" in the NT was proskuneo, which also meant an act of homage, not the worship of God that Jesus himself engaged in.

John 4:24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

24 πνεῦμα ὁ θεός, καὶ τοὺς προσκυνοῦντας αὐτὸν ἐν πνεύματι καὶ ἀληθείᾳ δεῖ προσκυνεῖν.(SBL)

Which to me demonstrate that your claim is not accurate, since this is talking about worshiping God, using the word that you think does not really mean worshiping.

reply to post by Astrocyte

My "story" is general. All human lives are stories; and as I said, I am PHILOSOPHIZING this interpretation. I do not pretend (and this should score points with you) that my interpretation is the only plausible interpretation.

Conversely, the Christian narrative of Jesus sets up Jesus as THE story; the end. It is infallible; it is the archetype. It is taken absolutely literally.

Now, as an allegory, it could make a lot of sense.

Excuse my confusion. With the statement, "surely, there must come a time where mankind maturely understands God as a reality", it almost sounds as if if you are implying that God is a reality, and not a metaphor or allegory. My mistake I suppose. Usually metaphors are not literally applicable.

My interpretation is my interpretation. It's a bit low-brow of you to think that I'm merely parroting an orthodox viewpoint - especially when there is absolutely nothing orthodox about my opinion.

In any case, people are always at risk of being coaxed into views that aren't theirs; an atheist parent indoctrinates it's child into atheism; is that any different from a religious person exposing his child to religion? Most kids who are exposed to a particular view tend to retain that view throughout life; our brains were primed to prefer a particular interpretation, ascribing a particular value, with a range of emotional quality (be it awe, faith, skepticism, doubt, etc).

You mentioned "God" is everything. I don't see an issue with calling everything "God" if its properly defined beforehand, so people at least understand what you're talking about, but such a label brings with it thousands of years of baggage and a variety of meanings, that it doesn't really make any sense to use in this instance. I find nothing wrong with calling everything "everything". There seems to be a word already in place for that very purpose.
But if one wants to keep an orthodox term and apply it to an unorthodox interpretation, I think there'd be nothing but confusion.

Yes I've seen atheists indoctrinate their children. It's strange because in the process they still nonetheless teach the idea of God, whereas if they would have left it, the child may have grown indifferent to the idea altogether. I don't agree with that practice, and I don't agree there should be an 'ism' defining that specific viewpoint. It makes no sense really. And children do rebel sometimes. Imagine a child rebelling into God, away from his parents atheism. That would be the greatest irony.

And philosophy precedes theology. Theology has to be philosophically justified.

I don't agree with that in the slightest. I suppose, however if one continually blurs the distinction between God and the nature of reality, one would arrive at that conclusion. I personally find such apologetics insipid and a tactic that lacks any real value. But, like you said, my interpretation is my interpretation.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Yes, Mary was a sinner. But Jesus was God, so He was given a flawless vessel. God will do the same for us at the ressurection. Immaculate conception requires God's DNA. That would each make us the begotten sons of God. But Jesus is the only Eternally existing begotten son. Our sonship is one of addoption through Christ.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

 

Eve was tempted, Adam's sin was greater as he ate the fruit without being tempted.

I see no complicity in the crime on Adam's part being described in Genesis.
Eve had to get up close to even see what the fruit looked like, to decide if she thought that it looked good to eat.
When she gave Adam some to eat, it does not say that she told him where she got them.
The realization that there was a problem would have been when Adam realized there was a problem, that his "eyes were opened".

edit on 21-8-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Ok. After having their eyes openned, they knew thay where naked. It is an ancient Jewish beleif that before the fall, Adam and Eve emmitted light from their skin. This is confirmed by the scientific fact that all flesh absorbs and reemits a small amount of photons, and also by ressurection. In all cases of ressurection into immortality, the ressurected individual is said to be clothed in white. I believe this is emission of light. At the transfiguration, Jesus' face shown like the sun. So the fruit of knowledge of good and evil would have corrupted this ability to reemit light. Hence they knew they were naked. So Adam knew what he was doing before he did it. Plus, if Adam was able to eat from any other tree, then he would have known that this mystery fruit was prohibited since it would have been the only unfamilliar fruit.

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

Yes, Mary was a sinner. But Jesus was God, so He was given a flawless vessel.

Nonsense.

A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

By Jesus' own words, either Mary was without sin, or Jesus was not. If Jesus was God, why did he need to be baptized?

reply to post by windword


Sin is passed on by the male. How did Mary avoid the sin nature. Please explain.

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

So Adam knew what he was doing before he did it.

By seeing Eve already having turned naked? Is the change instantaneous?

Plus, if Adam was able to eat from any other tree, then he would have known that this mystery fruit was prohibited since it would have been the only unfamiliar fruit.

It doesn't say that they had ever eaten from the tree of life.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Gen 2:16 The LORD God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”

The hebrew says "dying you shall die". So the forbidden fruit killed their spirit as quickly as it opened their eyes, resulting in genetic corruption of inevitable mortality.

"For in that day you shall die", indicates that the change happened quickly.

Originally posted by BELIEVERpriest
reply to post by windword

 

Sin is passed on by the male. How did Mary avoid the sin nature. Please explain.

According to Romans, Sin "entered" the world through one man." Not that sin is passed on through sperm.

"A bad tree can't put forth good fruit." Mary wasn't without sin, so she couldn't have put forth a sin free child.

Why did Jesus need to be baptized?

"For the wages of sin is death...."

Jesus died, Jesus sinned.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

 

Yes, Mary was a sinner. But Jesus was God, so He was given a flawless vessel.

Nonsense.

A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

By Jesus' own words, either Mary was without sin, or Jesus was not. If Jesus was God, why did he need to be baptized?

If you recall he did not consider himself to be "good"

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Put succinctly, you exaggerate the importance of Hebrew, and old and new testament scriptures.

When proteins render a body from information, we get a two sided human (Concrete and Abstract).

I'm sorry, I'm not following you.

98% of the human genome doesn't even code for protein; it codes for something else. A large part of what regulates protein production is epigenetic, such as histiones and Methyl-DNA. Can you somehow work this fact into your pseudo-scientific theories which treats the Bible as not merely a book of revelation, but a book of science as well?

Do you have any idea how complex our world is? To suggest that the Bible contains the information for all things which make up the universe, from the microscopic, quarks/atoms, to specific molecules (are all the molecules which make up our universe encoded in the Torah as well?) to cellular structures, organs, lifeforms, ecosystems, planets... Do you get how dumbed down and selective your use of physics is?

And mentioning the collapse of the wave function in every paragraph you write doesn't explain anything. Observation collapses the wave function; we don't need Jesus for that. Simply being conscious will suffice.

Essentially, you are saying it is too hard to understand and there are too many shadows to examine, therefore, it is all false.

No, I'm just trying to get you to understand how supercilious it is to think that you are somehow figuring out the meaning of the universe by whimsically correlating ideas you read about in popular physics books to Hebrew grammar and ultimately to your own brand of Christian metaphysics.

These two languages alone are enough to show the same shadows in other languages.

Uh huh, and what of Sanskrit and eastern languages? Or do they just fall out of the purview of Gods plan for mankind?

DNA is a shadow of the true language of information contained in light. What is the purpose of concrete and abstract? Chirality is the right and left handed aspect of duality in nature. Coalescence is the act of combining two to make one. Bet Nun is your seed in this refinery of left and right hand joining in union. There is a purpose for you to be Cain moving to Abel. Jacob must claim the birthright over Esau. You have an angel above waiting (Matthew 18). "10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven. "

Do you know how I know you're full of $hit? You're lack of self awareness as you write; your prose is nice, it flows smoothly; but that itself presents a problem. You're in a highly emotional i.e. system 1 state of mind as you write. This prevents you from analyzing the merit, logic and coherency of your argument. It appears you're already absolutely convinced of that argument

Now, how do you suppose someone who reads your views is going to respond to such Chutzpah?

As creation rises to the next level, so can we. We are promised a new Crown (Mind) and a new Robe (Body). I, for one, look forward to the new day when shadows are removed and the cloud (Neph) is lifted.

And I suppose on that day the whole world will convert to Christianity?

Originally posted by Astrocyte
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Put succinctly, you exaggerate the importance of Hebrew, and old and new testament scriptures.

When proteins render a body from information, we get a two sided human (Concrete and Abstract).

I'm sorry, I'm not following you.

98% of the human genome doesn't even code for protein; it codes for something else. A large part of what regulates protein production is epigenetic, such as histiones and Methyl-DNA. Can you somehow work this fact into your pseudo-scientific theories which treats the Bible as not merely a book of revelation, but a book of science as well?

Our entire body is literally made of proteins. From our bones to our muscles, arteries and veins, skin, hair, and fingernails. Proteins make our heart, brain, liver, kidneys, and lungs. Tissues holding us together are literally made from proteins, rendered from amino acids. Aleph Bet (Alphabet) is the word Father in Hebrew. Son is Bet Nun (House of Seed). DNA makes the Word possible in the catalyst of the water (Mother in Hebrew is Aleph Mem (Strength of the Water)). Nothing psudoscientific about it. Simple rational connection above and below.

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.