Islam's Incorruptible Qur'an Is Corrupt

reply to post by OpinionatedB


I agree with you. There is a soul within religion that transcends all. It is understood as the Perennial Philosophy. Every sincere inquiry of religion, philosophy, belief, and ideology is an inquiry into the same existence. All of the various belief systems are relative-subjective perspectives into the same existence. But when we can kgnow the wholeness, unity, and oneness of existence, then we can shake-off the edicts and practices that cause fragmentation and suffering amongst mankind.

When we kgnow the essence that transcends all religion, we can more easily reject belief systems that cultivate violence, jihad, hate, separation, distrust, religious superiority complexes, slavery, sexism, and oppression. These are not attributes of Love, Peace, Understanding, and Compassion.


Here are two threads which superficially use concepts to illustrate my own relative-subjective kgnowing of God and existence. All is One and One is All.

God: My Gnosis

King Dome's Throne Is On Water



Assalaamu alaikum.

reply to post by Sahabi


All these things you mentioned, are discussed daily amongst muslims. All these things you have 'problems' with, are answered if you delve deep enough... something you never cared to do.

Whatever is between you and God is just that. I don't care what you choose to believe, its between you and God.I am also not going to sit and refute crap that has been answered for anyone who cares to find out. If you want to trash a religion based upon parts you do not care to understand or find time to learn more about, more power to you.

People are people, some are very bad and some are good and some are average and people are not how you judge anything...not how you judge a thing.... If i were to judge Christianity based on only some of the beliefs some hold, I would hate all Christians as well as the religion itself, this can be said for almost anything....everyone depends on what angle you choose to look at it from.

You choose the negative, you chose to base your beliefs concerning the religion based on what extremism taught and found out they didn't know the religion at all... well guess what, that's why they are damned extremists.... they never cared to learn it either

you fall into the same category, extremism... those who don't care what the truth is. You 'think' you know something.... they 'think' they do too...

all of you are wrong. you never cared to learn, if you did your actions would be different.

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
If you never look, you will spend your life disillusioned.

That's why sticking with Islam your whole life would be silly and counter-productive.

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by Sonny2

 

lots of people freak out over the possibility.... it is only those who really look who will find the truth...

yeah, paid Israeli guy might be right!

Look at his signature, he is a buddhist

I told ya, he was never a muslim, just spread his propaganda.

He probably thinks that his stone god is better than Muhammad's

Originally posted by Sonny2

 

BS, all stuff he posted can be easily debunked, he is a christian guy Im 100% sure, or maybe one of those paid israeli propaganda soldiers

Just another "my god is better than your god" post.

Originally posted by OpinionatedB

 

yeah, paid Israeli guy might be right!

Why the hostility and libel?

Is the information in this thread too hard to discuss,... so you result to false accusations and failed attempts at character attacks?




1. If this thread is easily debunked, please debunk Parts 2 through 6 of the OP.

2. I am an actual ex-Muslim. Although I now denounce Islam and religious/ideological violence, the second thread I ever posted on ATS back in 2008 was True Islamic Jihad And It's Beauty

3. I am not an Isareli propagator. Although I no longer believe in such concepts and there are inaccuracies in it, the fourth thread I ever authored was Why the U.S. has unwavering support for the so called state of israel, based on Monotheistic Faiths

4. I am not a Christian. Here are some threads I authored about Christianity:
Leave Monotheistic Religion And There Will Be No Final Battle

Jesus Would Kick Your Preacher's Ass!

There Is NO Original Sin!!!

5. I did not leave Islam simply because I am disillusioned about tahreef (tampering) of the Qur'an.
Becoming Muslim: I Did Not Read The Fine Print
Islam is the counter-religion of Peace, Freedom, Love, Unity, Compassion, Equality, and Understanding. That is why I left Islam.

reply to post by Sonny2


I just have a problem with people who post this kind of stuff on websites that are not muslim sites.

If you think Muslims are wrong, why not go and talk to muslims? When you feel you have to 'inform' someone they are wrong, you talk to them.

If you want to make others feel better about thinking a group of people are ignorant and wrong.... then you go to those other people...

he just wants to 'inform' the ones who want to feel like they are 'right'..... reinforcing their already held beliefs...

ignorance needs to feel intelligent sometimes too....

If he wanted to understand about any of this, he might go have a talk with macissac on shiachat, also a convert, who went to iran and studied religion for 4 years, who took the time to learn arabic, and could probably have a very informative discussion...

but that would be difficult I am sure....lol

Originally posted by Sonny2

 

Look at his signature, he is a buddhist

I told ya, he was never a muslim, just spread his propaganda.

He probably thinks that his stone god is better than Muhammad's

Do you want to debate the information in the op?

Do you want to attempt to "debunk" the information in the op?


You are only relying on personal attacks. And now you come with another slanderous statement of libel about me being Buddhist? Is guessing my belief system your best weapon at debating this op?


I am a Christian.
I am a Jew.
I am a Muslim.
I am a Hindu.
I am a Sikh.
I am a Jain.
I am a Daoist.
I am a Rastafarian.
I am a Luciferian.
I am a Satanist.
I am a Mystic.
I am an Alchemist.
I am Gnostic.
I am Agnostic.
I am Atheist.
I am a Monist.
I am the world and the world is me.




Unless you avoid superficial character attacks and discuss the content of the op, I will bid you Peace in life and goodbye.

reply to post by Sahabi



why would I? Its not like you want to discuss the info in the OP or you would have gone to a website full of muslims....

You want to say lookey here muslims are wrong.... lol.... have fun with that

you told me all I needed to know when you wouldn't even google al quran an natiq to find out what I meant by what I said

reply to post by OpinionatedB


My brother.

Part 1 of the op is my personal Islamic background. If you read it, you will realize that I do know about these topics. I am not a novice 2 book scholar. I learned Islam from years of tutelage with sheikhs and muftis.

My entire op was created with the Islamic Apologist arguments already in mind. The op can handle all Islamic peer review and criticism.

Assalaamu alaikum

reply to post by OpinionatedB


I did respond to your "Qur'an an Natiq" reply. In saying "Speaking Qur'an"......

Are you talking about the qira'at (recitation) instead of the mus'haf (manuscript)?

Are you talking about Ali ibn Abi-Talib's Qur'an that he vowed to pass only to his family?

Are you talking about the Sufi Mystical Islamic inner wisdom of the Qur'an?

reply to post by Sahabi


First of all, you are using Hadiths as your source and evidence, the problem about hadiths is that even huge number of muslims dont trust them very much because they have been written long after Quran and Muhammad's death, 200 - 300 years after Muhammad. When you find trustable source than complain about it. And really, if you think that Quran is corrupted than go to muslims sites I think they will give you all answers you need.

reply to post by Sahabi


If you cared a lick about why muslim believe what they do you would be talking to muslims... and not just one branch either....

if you wanted to preach to people your preaching to a board that already doesn't believe Islam, so basically you are going for the divisive hatred thing, trying to say Muslim are ignorant... well hell, Muslim already know all that you posted so why do you think they still believe in Islam....???

you don't care why and you don't care to learn.... you want to preach to choirs......

What I want to know is do you really have nothing better to do with your time??? I mean seriously? Nothing in this world more important to you.... you could do something wonderful for humanity or society or something positive to bring people closer together, you could stop WW3 or so many other worthwhile things...

but as people in this world are in pain, dying, and suffering you choose this????

This is what is wrong with this world today.... this....

reply to post by Sahabi


How could there be any flaws in it, their god created the universe right? God would not allow the instruction of man to be corrupted.

The book tells you that its true. With your limited human perception how can you judge?

/sarcasm

reply to post by Sonny2


You are wrong again! I did not use only ahadith.

I used actual, physical, existent Qur'an manuscripts also. In case you missed it in the op, it is in these two posts:
Part 3: Physical Qur’ans (1/2)
Part 3: Physical Qur’ans (2/2)


Those are the oldest Qur'ans know to exist. And they are all incomplete, erroneous, and different than today's Qur'an.





I do not need to go to muslim sites to ask their opinions. I know their opinion, I know the academic Islamic view point on these topics. This op can withstand all academic Islamic peer-review and criticism. I am here to tell the truth about Islam,... a truth that some conceal and many do not know.

reply to post by Sahabi


There is a lot of islamic scholars that study Quran and history of the Quran. Many of them have nice websites so you should contact and ask them. You basicly said that islam is death cult, terrorist organization etc... What kind of sect you were in , if any? Al-Qaeda?

Great post OP. I have studied Islam for some time as a non Muslim especially around the origins of Islam. More importantly I have studied the geography of the Koran. In a nutshell, present day Mecca is not the Mecca that Muhammad came from and the analysis shows that Petra is where Mohammad came from. To back this up with one small piece of evidence is that fact that up to 10 of the oldest known mosque's are orientated towards Petra with mosque's built post 715 A.D or thereabouts orientated to present day Mecca. This in itself is enough to suggest that Petra is Mohammads Mecca !! let alone hundreds of other pieces of information backing it up.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


What did this post have to do with debating or discussing the points in the op? You are clearly deflecting attention.





Islam is the world's fastest growing religion. If you separate Catholics from Protestants, then Islam is the world's largest religion.

Islam is an ideology that endorses slavery, spousal abuse, sexism, violence, hate, religious superiority complexes, religious separation, distrust of other religions, oppression, and tyranny.

If I know that the so-called holy book of Islam has been corrupted in its verbal and written form,.... then surely I am a Messenger to mankind about this corruption! I am a Messenger to tell Muslims that they can love God but abandon the negativity taught in the Qur'an.

The verbal form of Qur'an was corrupted. The written form of Qur'an was corrupted. It is foolishness and ignorance for any human to justify Islamic jizyah tax on non-Muslims,.... or to support spousal abuse,... or to support slavery,... or to support religious murder and war. These things are contained in a corrupted Qur'an! Let Love and Peace shine!!!

Islam's number of adherents is on the rise. More and more people are turning to a book ordaining slavery, spousal abuse, sexism, religious separation, and religious murder. Muslims lie to them when they say the Qur'an is pure and untampered. I am a Messenger of Truth.


Assalaamu alaikum.

reply to post by Sahabi


Maybe attention should be deflected to things that are worthwhile.... maybe bashing another group outside of their hearing does something for you..... but it is not worthwhile for anyone but you and those who want to get on their high horse and say yea! we are right and they are wrong....

what another believes is not something to gloat over...

try doing something for humanity that can help another human being.... learn the cure for cancer, the common cold... become another mother theresa, become another ghandi, a person that did something for others instead of stroking their own ego

hell you could even be the next president and do something good for your countrymen....but instead you choose to bash another group when they arent around....

reply to post by OpinionatedB


I don't have a dog in this fight and I don't pretend to know who's right and who's wrong but don't you think it would be more helpful if you actually met his contentions with actual arguments?

Because right now all you're really saying is: "Nuh uh! You're wrong, I'm right!"

Hmpf...

Surat Mariam, is in honor of the catholic faith, since they see Mary higher than Jesus.

No, we don't.

All in all Islam was brought to the Arabs so they can be slaves to "god" (the Vatican) after they have been subdued,

Why would the Protestants subduing Arabs on behalf of the Jews bring people to the Vatican?