Enlightenment Isn't Found; It Is Created.

Originally posted by NiNjABackflip
reply to post by BigBrotherDarkness

 

chase the dragon

Be careful when using that phrase in public.

Meh, it was an experience that I learned from, if anyone wishes to use the truth against me in some way shape or form, I have no issues owning up to it; no facade to save face for. Many people pretend to be something they are not, and feel the need to protect that... laying that down, is letting go of a needless stress that is both self perpetuating and self inflicted. Hmm wonder why so many people are trying to find themselves? There's the answer, their authentic self has been lost in a shuffle of self delusion. How most everyone treated Paula Dean for being honest is disturbing, the lesson from the media? The truth can hurt you... so keep perpetuating the lie to protect yourself. Perfect example of samsara in action.

reply to post by spartacus699

How do you know, you've never even tried it.

There is no possible way you can know that. You're just making stuff up here.

reply to post by BigBrotherDarkness

Meh, it was an experience that I learned from, if anyone wishes to use the truth against me in some way shape or form, I have no issues owning up to it; no facade to save face for. Many people pretend to be something they are not, and feel the need to protect that... laying that down, is letting go of a needless stress that is both self perpetuating and self inflicted. Hmm wonder why so many people are trying to find themselves? There's the answer, their authentic self has been lost in a shuffle of self delusion. How most everyone treated Paula Dean for being honest is disturbing, the lesson from the media? The truth can hurt you... so keep perpetuating the lie to protect yourself. Perfect example of samsara in action.

Well I was saying they ban people for such references on these boards.

If samsara is taken metaphorical. That does somewhat make sense.

reply to post by BigBrotherDarkness


They say honesty is good, and then they punish people for speaking it. They say freedom of speech and expression is good, but then they punish people for using it. The worse part is, most of these people actually mean what they say and they don't even realize how their belief systems contradict.

reply to post by NiNjABackflip


You tip toe around enlightenment, you hold it from yourself. You speak of it being a conscious thing, knowledge, and birthed out of knowledge an enlightenment that is not true in the sense that it has existed within nature all along. This is what you have created for YOURSELF. You say that it is a creation, indeed, one that you have made. Indeed the enlightenment experience is individual, and you create the space for it to happen, as we are at the cusp of creation, the here, the now. But know this, liberation and awakening is in the fabric of our creation, our creation is liberation. From all that there is, we are the parts moving to and fro, over the endless cosmic ocean, the depthless infinite potential. And thus to be liberated from this state, we move back into the limitless from where we originated. The valley and the mountain, one without the other cannot exist. Do not get stuck on this, any dwelling in any subject will only hold you in ropes, unable to be free. Move back and forth effortlessly, let go and gain everything.

You can live it, and you are closer than you think. There are a few core ideas you must let go of though, but you won't, yet.

You want to know ? Then stop thinking you know, and ask.

For if there were ever a time that an enlightened one was speaking with you, this is one of them.

Nice post OP.

Over 20 years ago I took up a "psychological" semi-jungian practice.

It didn't take long until it had... er... evolved radically on its own lets just say, and I understood the interworlds to be real and autonomous albeit not in the same frequency as what we call physical mass 'here', and the changing 'inner guide' identity I'd long considered my 'psychological projection' I eventually realized was genuinely divine.

It was then I understand that the _capacity_ for the _perception of holiness_ must be _cultivated_ in a person. For most people it is merely potential until developed.

I thought that if I considered the topic of spirituality a black box of philosophy and intellectualism, this was because there was no evidence, even experiential aside from 'imagined,' for it, but merely a lot of people in armchairs arguing about it. But I discovered that the problem was my previous misunderstanding: this was never a decision of the mind to begin with. It is like taking a camera to capture what whalesong sounds like. The tool is good, the song is real, but if you walk away thinking you got no evidence so there's nothing there, the problem is the perspective.

Now if I could only properly wrap my head around all the biology=cosmology the inner world keeps feeding me. Who knew that I probably should have studied chemistry and astronomy for proper metaphysical understanding LOL.

reply to post by preludefanguy

You tip toe around enlightenment, you hold it from yourself. You speak of it being a conscious thing, knowledge, and birthed out of knowledge an enlightenment that is not true in the sense that it has existed within nature all along. This is what you have created for YOURSELF.

Yes. And I'm sure we will soon find out what you have created for yourself.

You say that it is a creation, indeed, one that you have made. Indeed the enlightenment experience is individual, and you create the space for it to happen, as we are at the cusp of creation, the here, the now. But know this, liberation and awakening is in the fabric of our creation, our creation is liberation. From all that there is, we are the parts moving to and fro, over the endless cosmic ocean, the depthless infinite potential. And thus to be liberated from this state, we move back into the limitless from where we originated. The valley and the mountain, one without the other cannot exist. Do not get stuck on this, any dwelling in any subject will only hold you in ropes, unable to be free. Move back and forth effortlessly, let go and gain everything.

This is your enlightenment, your desire, and your idea of it. You are passing nothing more than a fleeting thought upon someone who is not quite sold on your idea. It's like this for every "enlightened one", convinced that they have found the key to life, but not the key to explaining it better.

You want to know ? Then stop thinking you know, and ask.

For if there were ever a time that an enlightened one was speaking with you, this is one of them.

Do I want to know what? Surely, an enlightened one knows what I want to know. Perhaps you can tell me.

reply to post by RedCairo


I like your thoughts here thanks for sharing.

Now if I could only properly wrap my head around all the biology=cosmology the inner world keeps feeding me. Who knew that I probably should have studied chemistry and astronomy for proper metaphysical understanding LOL.

Not many spiritual people share this attitude. They instead run the other way. It's quite refreshing.

reply to post by NiNjABackflip


Your creation of this thread is to engage in conversation of a topic that has captured your interest: enlightenment/liberation/awakening.

One should stop looking at things as so reductionist, fitting one for all. This is human thinking. If one thinks more along the lines of nature, then we see that things grow out more organically. There is a basic 'architecture' or substance to our reality, that which all things take root and grow from.

The reason awakening can be so individual, is the same reason as why we find variances in species across the globe that fall into the same categories. The seeds for enlightenment are planted in your birth. These seeds can grow into and form all sorts of beautiful organic thought forms, but that from which they spring up from is the same across the whole of reality. They grow differently, are expressed differently, much like evolution expresses the seeds for different species alongside the growth differences and pathways local to their area. The same with human consciousness and their local evolutionary tract.

That which one comes back from experiencing, is never changing, but how we experience, how we can bring it back into language, into our existence and belief systems of how the world is, by nature of how and where we grew up, is only language. Language itself expresses the idea, but it is not the idea. It is not the experience.

In fact, the very nature of liberation is so flexible, so intangible to the reductionist mind, that one can spend a lifetime reflecting on what it is that one has experienced, merged with.

But you already have it all figured out dont you, without even an inkling of touching the truth that pervades all matters so subtly, that you will never find it, unless you work to uncover it. From desire to know is birthed the process or the road to awakening. This is only the road, and you need a vehicle, neither the road or the vehicle will become the thing itself. That final step, requires something altogether different than desire, but that space must be cultivated.

I wont try to tell you what it is. Experience it yourself for yourself.

reply to post by preludefanguy


I appreciate your views which you expressed quite beautifully. However they are in contrast to my own.

One should stop looking at things as so reductionist, fitting one for all. This is human thinking. If one thinks more along the lines of nature, then we see that things grow out more organically. There is a basic 'architecture' or substance to our reality, that which all things take root and grow from.

You mention this is human thinking. I am quite sure that I am a human, and am therefore thinking as a human. But I do not see the human as somehow separate from nature, and I think that human thinking is natural thinking, and an instance of nature herself. We are already thinking along the lines of nature. What we express is different, for sure, but expression too is an act of nature. I find no dichotomy between man and nature.

I am not being reductionist at all. I think it is the self-proclaimed enlightened ones who are the reductionists.

The reason awakening can be so individual, is the same reason as why we find variances in species across the globe that fall into the same categories. The seeds for enlightenment are planted in your birth. These seeds can grow into and form all sorts of beautiful organic thought forms, but that from which they spring up from is the same across the whole of reality. They grow differently, are expressed differently, much like evolution expresses the seeds for different species alongside the growth differences and pathways local to their area. The same with human consciousness and their local evolutionary tract.

Except there is no consensus or "truth" about what "awakening" is. That is why it is individual, because every individual thinks they know what it is, and draw their own conclusions.

That which one comes back from experiencing, is never changing, but how we experience, how we can bring it back into language, into our existence and belief systems of how the world is, by nature of how and where we grew up, is only language. Language itself expresses the idea, but it is not the idea. It is not the experience.

In fact, the very nature of liberation is so flexible, so intangible to the reductionist mind, that one can spend a lifetime reflecting on what it is that one has experienced, merged with.

But you already have it all figured out dont you, without even an inkling of touching the truth that pervades all matters so subtly, that you will never find it, unless you work to uncover it. From desire to know is birthed the process or the road to awakening. This is only the road, and you need a vehicle, neither the road or the vehicle will become the thing itself. That final step, requires something altogether different than desire, but that space must be cultivated.

I wont try to tell you what it is. Experience it yourself for yourself.

Experience what though? Liberation? Awakening? Surely an enlightened one knows and can therefor explain what these are. Except, like all who propose enlightenment, they say only we can seek it, blind, as if something was there that can be found despite having no clue what it is. "Experience it yourself" they say – in other words – "create it for yourself".

reply to post by NiNjABackflip


Yes, with an open mind, not a shut one.

Humans are nature. Our thinking/thoughts are not yet manifest. We manifest them, and in this way, we create our beliefs and our identity as self.

You can already do quite an amount of extraordinary things quite automatically without you having to even think about it. You dont have to go on thinking about how you will digest your food and turn it into energy for you to go about your day doing and manifesting more thoughts from that beautiful brain of yours. All this, the nature of reality, the entangled states of being with one another and existing in ecosystems, hierarchical information systems, is happening without you having to worry about it. Engage in thinking all you want, but this should be a tempered tool that we use, and not treat it as nature of self. Dont get those two things confused.

There is something that is connected between everything, even these separated self created enlightenments as you refer to them. But it is so vast, so subtle, like the air we breathe, that you should really seek to experience it for yourself, because in experiencing it, all your questions are answered about it, and new ones arise, such is the nature of our being. Knowledge can take you only so far. We can express it, say it, speak it, there are many traditions that dive into it, and if you know it, you know of all the things that bind those experiences. But saying it, speaking it, is not the same thing as being a witness to it, becoming it. If you really want to know, seek it, otherwise, you are just flirting with the idea, which there is nothing wrong about. In fact, the world needs its workers, of all sorts and shapes, and we are far too busy to think about anything else other than what our most important world view is. That is ok, it is the nature of things. But for those that are seeking with a slow burning desire, there is something there to find.

I'm not sure this is really an "enlightenment" however I can call it founding a thought that is "eternal" - and thus, it comprises of all thoughts that I have ever had, and all the eventualities, consequences, and creations that these thoughts represent, in addition to all my memories up to this moment in time, and all the future that would have been "guaranteed" as a consequence or result of my actions - a single thought encapsulates it all, the same thought exists at the start and the finish, all else is inbetween, and the two ends meet up into a "perfect thought"...

I did it, I know how I did it, and I chose to.

reply to post by SystemResistor


That thought will one day become a hindrance instead of a good friend, when the time comes to say goodbye to it I hope you find it well.

reply to post by SystemResistor


sounds like singularity

intrptr
reply to post by NiNjABackflip

 

Enlightenment Isn't Found; It Is Created.,

My understanding that enlightenment , wisdom, grace or whatever we call it is not found or earned or made...

it is a gift.

Life is a group effort.

KPB

reply to post by Wandering Scribe

I have to disagree here. Ani the Scribe, Moses, Jesus, the Buddha: they all left a "user's guide" for how to achieve enlightenment.

Or conversely a guide for how to behave. The "Be attitudes" is not a lesson in enlightenment. Its a lesson in behavior modification. Particularly in regards to self and others. Something we do for ourself and others.

Searching for "enlightenment' is not the primary goal.

KellyPrettyBear

intrptr
reply to post by NiNjABackflip

 

Enlightenment Isn't Found; It Is Created.,

My understanding that enlightenment , wisdom, grace or whatever we call it is not found or earned or made...

it is a gift.

Life is a group effort.

KPB

That one went right by me, could you deny my ignorance a little more? I want to understand what you mean by it because I value your input.

I think everyone could benefit from reading this thread.
www.godlikeproductions.com...

intrptr

KellyPrettyBear

intrptr
reply to post by NiNjABackflip

 

Enlightenment Isn't Found; It Is Created.,

My understanding that enlightenment , wisdom, grace or whatever we call it is not found or earned or made...

it is a gift.

Life is a group effort.

KPB

That one went right by me, could you deny my ignorance a little more? I want to understand what you mean by it because I value your input.

Sure.

So many people 'seek after enlightenment'. But the question needs
to be asked "who seeks?". Now I'm not referring to the Yogic
process of discernment as an enlightenment tool. What I'm referring
to is more "Sistene Chapel".

For the spark to be ignited, the "hand from above" must reach 'down'
while the "hand from below" must reach up.

Thus 'enlightenment' is a 'group effort' as those hands from below and
above are not singular eiher, but of a group nature.

The 'hand from above" is often called 'grace' and so it is.. but that hand
from above is actually called by the heart and mind (when the student
is ready the master will appear --- crappy occult saying. .but there is
something to it). The 'calling' happens due to a change of biology in
the body of the person.. which happens due to a change in character.

A change in character always involves a 'group effort'.

I don't mean to be mysterious (I don't really), but if you wish to ponder
that a bit then ask more questions then perhaps it might be beneficial.

Also I'd advise keeping the expression "Life is a group effort" in mind
a lot.. it's a little red wagon too..

KPB

reply to post by intrptr


Life is one - it is not a 'group effort'.
The term 'enlightenment' refers to the realization of oneness so I have no idea who this 'group' consists of. Also when oneness is realized life is found to be no effort - because it is found that life is just happening and there is no one doing it and it is not happening to someone. The 'someone' who was suffering from life is seen to be non existent - just an illusion.
All that remains is aliveness.