Netherlands is closing 19 prisons due to a serious prisoner shortage.

People need to realize that this is what should be happening in the US. However, there is a conspiracy in the US regarding the prison system. Politicians actually help those who give them perks and money by doing what they can to have more prisons built, among other things...And then the law makes sure that the prisons stay full. The only way to do this is to lock people up for non-violent crimes, things they shouldn't be in prison for. The government pays private corporations to build and run prisons, and these businesses are making a killing by getting paid with our tax dollars. It really is a big conspiracy, and there are many more like it in the US.

Well that is awesome for those guys! Too bad that is far from the problem in the USA, but if it was, we would just arrest/imprison people unfairly (moreso than we already do)

Originally posted by Cabin
I know this thread went to the drug topic, although this is one of the reasons on the lower incarceration rates in Netherlands and one of the reasons which lead to closing the 19 prisons. Maybe something to learn for many governments, including mine.

Yeah I think the whole "war on drugs" approach has failed spectacularly in the US and it seriously needs to be reconsidered. The American government needs to learn it can't just declare war on anything it doesn't like, and that war is not the only solution.

Thing is with so many private prisons wanting more "customers" they will all lobby the government to keep laws in place which ensure their businesses flourish.

In regards to treating addicts, the approach used in the Netherlands has been very successful. They treat them as sick people, not criminals in need to locking up. I heard in a documentary that doctors can give heroin addicts their hit in hospital each morning. This means instead of breaking and entering and doing smash a grabs to get the 400$ or so (sometimes smashing a $100 window to grab $20 cash)... the government can just grow poppies legally which is much cheaper than black market drugs so this means it only costs like $5 to society to keep the addict fixed, plus there is no fear or emotional pain which can come from robberies by addicts. Add to this the fact that each morning when the addicts gets a hit, they also get a pamphlet about free rehab and are surrounded by encouraging nurses and psychologists. Also the doctor can lower their dose by 1%, as they have the ability to measure this accurately taping off is much more realistic. Then of course there's no risk of HIV, needle stick injuries to the public, etc.. You eliminate all the gangs which deal.... I could talk all day about the benefits of this approach.

Hmm
well then,
maybe it is time for the US to "transfer" some of our over crowding issues to them,
Im sure some kind of monetary resolution can be worked out

Poor business practice on behalf of the Netherlands government. We have an overcrowded prison system here. Instead they could be charging the U.S. for some additional prison space!

I think it is awesome that there is a decline in prisoners. Here in the US we hold what, a quarter?... half?.... (most... soon to be all if the gov't gets its way) of the world's prison population. And how many of those are non violent crimes? OK... less jobs in prison but really? They may not be working in the prison anymore but if more people are in the real world (non-prison) wouldn't it equal out?

More people buying gas... more jobs for cashiers, managers, delivery drivers. More people buying groceries... more jobs for truck drivers shipping food, farmers, managers. More people needing healthcare... more jobs for nurses, doctors, radiologists, medical equipment manufacturers.
The list could go on indefinitely, (and new businesses to cash in on it).

Maybe I am grasping at straws but it just sounds better to me all the way around. These people that would be in prison would be helping the economy and not living off taxpayer money in prison.

Off topic...

Originally posted by Cabin two times less cannabis addicts,

Maybe a psychological addiction but physical? Have they even been able to prove that one could be addicted physically to marijuana? And where are all the bad things about it? You don't get drunk and fight, you don't go killing people, you don't beat people up at random, you can't overdose from it and end up in the hospital. I do not personally enjoy the drug... never have seen the draw to it. But it is the one illegal drug that I just can't see a purpose to it being illegal. (

Originally posted by WeRpeons
Poor business practice on behalf of the Netherlands government. We have an overcrowded prison system here. Instead they could be charging the U.S. for some additional prison space!

ROFL! I love this ^.

Sad as hell and embarrassing to me that my gov't even considers a prison a business and that we lock up so many innocent people and SOOO many for non-violent crime that a prison term will NOT help. All to make a buck that they can "lose" and funnel into greedy pockets and underhanded black projects.

But though the situation sucks and it is very saddening... your comment was just too funny to not forget all that and laugh at it for a minute. =) Thank you for that.

The United States would never follow the example of the Netherlands, despite how obvious the success of their policies is. The U.S. private prison business is very lucrative. It's profitable to get as many people in the jails as possible for these companies, and to have a lot of them working as very cheap labor for other companies.

Originally posted by WeRpeons
Poor business practice on behalf of the Netherlands government. We have an overcrowded prison system here. Instead they could be charging the U.S. for some additional prison space!

But who tells you that they want to import criminals?

Originally posted by Lil Drummerboy
Hmm
well then,
maybe it is time for the US to "transfer" some of our over crowding issues to them,
Im sure some kind of monetary resolution can be worked out

The US would never go for that. The prisons in the Netherlands are quite nice, the average "cell" is nicer than the average 1 bedroom apartment in the US. It also happens to come with perks like education, rehabilitation, and so on. The US tries to make prisons as miserable as possible without actually torturing someone and generally goes the time sink route. The Netherlands actually tries to rehabilitate and make prison time productive. No politician in the US could step up and support that system without being called soft on crime.

If the US stopped arresting people for pot, put a tax on the sale of pot like California and other states have and release all the minimal pot related criminals (no traffickers etc)

They would free up so much prison room and tax money on pot related crimes (from courts to parole officer time)

The liberal Dutch may reconsider this down line if they do this. I've lived and worked in Amsterdam and the youth there are pretty feral due to the liberal approach to parenting by the majority. Anti social behaviour is a problem, although the Police tend to ignore it. On top of this foreign gangs are a MASSIVE problem, they try at every point to brush it under the carpet but those prisons could easily be filled with the amount of foreign criminal gangs operating in Amsterdam alone and from intel I got, its only a matter of time before violence starts breaking out between these gangs.

It's a nice idea and a wonderful vision, but the reality may differ and the Dutch may be screaming for those prisons to be reopened give it a few years.

Originally posted by Cabin

Very interesting in my opinion. Budget cuts and well, some people might have lost their jobs, although at the end the ends justifies the means, why keep running a prison on the expense of the tax payer, when there are no criminals to fill it.

Sounds like an opportunity. How 'bout we ship them some criminals?

I vote we ship them our 535 members of congress, one unknown-origin "president" + cabinet and the entire DHS chain-of-command.

Crime didn't go down in our country.

It was all setup to close several prisons in The Netherlands because of cost reductions. By giving other forms of punishment like house arrest, community work, longer probations etc etc, it became possible to close several prisons down.

Don't believe the MSM with their fairytales about less crime.

I view drug use as culling the herd. I say legalize them. Why should I stop someone using drugs? It's their business. Tax it like everything else.

Originally posted by texasyeti
I view drug use as culling the herd. I say legalize them. Why should I stop someone using drugs? It's their business. Tax it like everything else.

If they did legalise drugs and implement a tax on them it could quite possibly get us out of the financial meltdown we currently find ourselves experiencing.

Think of the revenue stream said tax could generate when you consider how much is generated by cigarette tax alone!

Originally posted by ExPostFacto
Have you seen what the Netherland prisons look like inside? They actually treat people with dignity, and have come to find out that approach tends to work better then a punitive system like we have in the US.

The crime rate in Norway is also not very high and do such countries have more money to spent on housing and services for the criminals.

The jail-cells are almost like modern hotelrooms and the sevices provided for the criminals are excellent. In some situations a criminal is beter taken care of by the government than the honest hardworking guy.

Hardened criminals can't stand the luxury in the dutch prisons, it is not what they expect and makes them nauseous when entering. Their brain cannot compute the unexpected situation. Being locked up in such housing and provided with these wonderful sevices make the criminals so uneasy that they do anything to keep away from the dutch prisons. Thats why no one really dares to commit a crime in Holland.

Okay, but seriously...doesn't have gun control something to do with the amount of murders and other type of crimes? Ratio compared to,.. for example the USA. The empty prisons isn't just because of the "controlled" pot.

reply to post by JiggyPotamus



My guess is the overall percentage of the 'sociopathic population' there is probably extremely low ...

as compared to the U.S., where it's quite high -- hence moral decay and the building of more prisons, and the endless list goes on and on. There's no shortage of sociopaths in the U.S.. Sociopaths are the reason for high crime, backward mindsets that are destructive and lack common sense are not forward progressing --- a money-oriented society. Normal people are not into controlling, manipulating and generally screwing others/humanity because it's not normal to posses this desire. But, for sociopaths it's routine, a way of life.

No one knows the exact figures or even approximate percentage of sociopaths in the U.S. because there are none. It has been estimated to be around 10%. Some figures have come in much higher. But, these horrid people are rarely diagnosed, most of them are not behind bars or institutionalized where they can't cause trouble, and no one admits to being a sociopath.

So, these percentages/stats can't possibly be accurate. I think doubling the reported/recorded figures would be more accurate.

Sociopaths have infiltrated our legal/judicial systems (corrupt/entitlement Judges/Lawyers/Politicians) and public educational systems (that indoctrinate innocent children) as well ... not too mention, agricultural/farming (think Monsanto -- IMO, this crime family are psychopaths/sociopaths)

Most of them live and work amongst us -- mental-health experts have authored books on this specific topic. These destructive people are not diagnosed and many of them have a lot of power. They hire/help each other.

Two (of many) 'sociopathy traits' are; no remorse/guilt and pure greed --- they care about money and power, not people. They come from all socioeconomic backgrounds -- so to say 'most wealthy people are greedy and sociopathic' is untrue.

It's impossible to determine the percentage of them living in the U.S., but suffice it to say the percentage is quite high, which may account for the high prison rate. And, they are experts at using, duping, conning and framing normal people, which is why many prisoners are not sociopathic and most sociopaths are free to cause harm.

This is my take ... hope this helps to fill in some gaps and answer some unknowns. JANA

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Obviously they dont have enough nonsensical, pre-crime, bureaucratic laws on the books to support a prison-industrial complex economy.

They should really get moving on that if they wish to achieve the greatness that America has achieved.

If anyone did try that, they'd just cross the border to Belgium, Germany, Luxemborg, wherever...

reply to post by JameSimon


I was joking, ...hence the wink.