This is how normal people discuss 9/11

reply to post by -PLB-

Can you name a single paper from architects and engineers for 9/11 truth that has wide support and has not been completely debunked?

Can you show me where they HAVE been debunked? No plane hit tower 7.

reply to post by wildtimes


I dont need to be a "American" (why does that matter?) Engineer to know that building took longer than 7 seconds to collapse.

No plane hit tower 7.

No but a building did.....

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


sources, please.

A building did NOT hit it. If it did, and you know the TRUE story, then please provide me that i'nformation. I haven't studied 9/11 in depth much - but when I stumble across things that ring true to me - and add it to what I know about false flag operations like Operation Northwoods (the Cuban Missile Crisis), and other EVENTS that are orchestrated TO START WARS -

I listen.

reply to post by wildtimes

Can you show me where they HAVE been debunked? No plane hit tower 7.

Yes! And from a source that stands higher than a 'conspiracy sales' site.

Implosion World . com

Analysis from explosives industry viewpoint

Can you point to any sources, that support the conspiracy, who isn't selling T shirts and DVD's?
The owner of ae911 makes a living off the conspiracy.

reply to post by wildtimes

A building did NOT hit it

I have news for you....





Looks like the south side took a pretty hard hit...

And yes it took longer than 7 seconds

I haven't studied 9/11 in depth much

well I know you haven't, but I know that i have, I have spent quite a lot of time researching 9/11

reply to post by samkent

Yes! And from a source that stands higher than a 'conspiracy sales' site.

Implosion World . com

Analysis from explosives industry viewpoint

Can you point to any sources, that support the conspiracy, who isn't selling T shirts and DVD's?
The owner of ae911 makes a living off the conspiracy.

And the military-industrial complex makes a living off of perpetual war; and tyrants make a living off of scaring their people, keeping them in 'chaos' mode, and then offering up "an answer" just when any answer at all will do.
Classic Machiavelli.

And the media makes profits by sensationalizing everything and keeping viewers tuned in.

Proven time and time again as the ages fly by. Disruption is the name of the game. T shirts and DVDs don't provide anywhere NEAR the profits that wars and disinformation and perpetual tyranny do.

But, thanks for the link. Believe me, I WANT to believe that it wasn't our own government - but, why were the air defense systems "turned off"? How do you explain that jet fuel cannot reach high enough temps to melt steel? What about the hole in the Pentagon? And in any case, the current "war on terror" is actually CREATING more terrorists - in droves.

reply to post by wildtimes

but, why were the air defense systems "turned off"? How do you explain that jet fuel cannot reach high enough temps to melt steel? What about the hole in the Pentagon?

This is a common failure mode in the thinking process for conspiracy believers.
They jump from topic to topic.
They don't stick to one thing.
They don't bother to look beyond conspiracy sites for their 'research'.

Once you discover one or two of the big points of the conspiracy are BS all of a sudden the rest of them fall on their own.

A couple of easy ones to get to the bottom of are the 2.3 trillion and the insurance money.

reply to post by samkent

They don't bother to look beyond conspiracy sites for their 'research'.

I try to avoid "conspiracy sites" while investigating history....I think of them as "histrionics" based on BS. (ATS being the exception - there is at least balance here.)

Once you discover one or two of the big points of the conspiracy are BS all of a sudden the rest of them fall on their own.

I just finished reading Dirty Wars and my eyes have been opened to what the M-I complex, and the White House administration, in orchestration with the JSOC (along with mercenaries), actually DO. They bribe other leaders to help them "spy" and to turn in their own citizens; they give arms to other people; they make back-room deals with greedy people who don't give a rat's ass how many innocent people they kill.....

all for money and power. I'm no 20-yr old tin-foil aficionada - and I THOROUGHLY research topics before jumping on any "conspiracy" bandwagons. Recently someone made a thread including a retired Major General (who was "laughed at" by some ATSers as delusional) describing how he reacted, and then investigated by looking at data...bits of data....and his questions remain unanswered. Mocked or not, he made sense to me. Especially in light of Snowden and Manning's revelations - I don't believe our government anymore.

The professionals in that AE2011 documentary were very sincere and serious - why would they jeopardize their careers and reputations just to sell some "T shirts and DVDs"? Why are there 1,500+ of them all in agreement, as a qualified 'community' of specialists, putting their own lives on the line?

The rendition programs and 'signature' drone strikes are causing more trouble - and we are 12 years past 9/11. Yet the "war" goes on and on and on. THOUSANDS of people have died, both military and civilian, and the world powers are colluding to keep it going.

Have you read "The Looming Tower"? Do you know about al-Awlaki? Al-Zawahiri? The U.S. Admin certainly plays dirty - not just around the world for "interests" but against us, its own citizens.

In my studied opinion - it is MORE likely that this was a coordinated effort - and I've already admitted I haven't been obsessed with 9/11 - I've looked more at "other related stories", from history up until the present, and I see a very ugly picture.

but again, I appreciate your link. That one paper, however, does not destroy the mountain of evidence that keeps piling up. It's not like this is "new", either. Duplicity, scheming, and back-room deals happen all the time - throughout history.

Currently I am reading another "Henry VIII" biography - same o' same o' - lying "partners", broken "promises", intrigues and backstabbing - all for money and power. Whether warriors or religious leaders - it's ALL about power, and NONE OF THEM are above reproach.

Originally posted by wildtimes
why were the air defense systems "turned off"? How do you explain that jet fuel cannot reach high enough temps to melt steel? What about the hole in the Pentagon? And in any case, the current "war on terror" is actually CREATING more terrorists - in droves.

The US air defence protects our borders from outside attacks, they do not track aircraft inside our borders. The air defence systems were never turned off.

en.wikipedia.org...


Steel loses strength when heated:




Damage to the pentagon matches B757



Islam the religion of peace is actually CREATING more terrorists - in droves.

www.thereligionofpeace.com...

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

I dont need to be a "American" (why does that matter?) Engineer to know that building took longer than 7 seconds to collapse.

Were you there at Ground Zero at the time? Did you witness the tower falling? How many seconds did it take then? 20? 45? What difference does it make? It imploded on its own footprint. Nanothermite was found in the dust - by outside investigators.

As for it "mattering" - Americans have more of a vested interest than foreigners do - this was hugely traumatic for millions of people who have NOT gotten adequate explanations, from a government that CONTINUES to be exposed as liars and FAR from "transparent." I'm not suggesting you don't merit consideration - but you didn't lose anything - your family members and loved ones didn't die, your children weren't in American school classrooms when this news broke. It was devastating - that day will NEVER be forgotten by those of us whose lives have been directly affected by something that WAS an act of terrorism - the question is: "Who did this?"

An office fire does not get hot enough to cause molten steel like "lava". There WERE explosions - at ALL THREE buildings. And it's no secret "anymore" that evidence gets buried, documents get shredded, fires and contaminants compromise actual investigation.

Your country has its own problems, what with your Shariah-controlled zones, etc. Yet your 'royal baby' diverted everyone away from the real "problems" going on globally. Sure, we all need a break and some relief from the tension - but "decoys" and "diversions" are known tactics.

samkent alleges that "jumping from topic to topic" is 'typical' and makes arguments meaningless - I disagree. Only by putting pieces together do we solve mysteries or crimes of genius.

Originally posted by wildtimes
Nanothermite was found in the dust - by outside investigators.

They found paint chips.

All You Need to Know about 9/11 to Prove it was an “Inside Job”: Why You Should Care, and What You Can Do

This article is from globalresearch.ca --
I don't know how 'reliable' they are, I only discovered them a couple days ago, but this article sums up a lot of evidence that points to collusion. It talks about AE911, about the 100s of Firefighters who heard the explosions after the planes it, the engineering of demolition, John Kerry himself talking about it being 'controlled demolition' on #7, along with DOZENS of military, FAA, NORAD and other assessments.

Paint chips? My arse. WHY WOULD THESE PROFESSIONALS in engineering, architecture, demolition, chemistry, fire-fighting, ALL SAY THE SAME THING? To sell T-shirts? Sorry. I don't buy it.

This report provides compelling and incontrovertible evidence showing that the events on September 11, 2001 did not occur as documented in the 9/11 Commission Report [9] and in the World Trade Center Disaster Study [10]. Furthermore, we will show that both reports were falsified to cover up the real truth: the attacks on the World Trade Center complex and the Pentagon were orchestrated by factions within the government of the United States. In addition, we provide documented evidence of motive for the attacks, why you should care, and suggestions for what you can do to help prevent another 9/11 from happening.

Blind Belief in Authority

“Blind belief in authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” — Albert Einstein

For many, doubts still remain about the accuracy of the official reports of 9/11 regarding what happened and who was responsible. In a recent poll, nearly half (48%) of New Yorkers support a new investigation into the collapse of World Trade Center Building 7 [11]. Another recent poll indicated that 15% of Americans believe that the U.S. government staged the attacks [12].

Yet for many others, the suggestion that the U.S. government orchestrated the attacks is both ridiculous and repugnant, which is understandable. What is not understandable is that so many people blindly believe the official 9/11 reports and refuse to entertain that possibility that they have been lied to. Instead, they turn a deaf ear to (and often ridicule) the many thousands of highly intelligent people who have been trying for years to wake them up to the truth – people like Scholars for 9/11 Truth, Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth, Pilots for 9/11 Truth, Political Leaders for 9/11 Truth, Medical Professionals for 9/11 Truth, Military, Intelligence and Government Patriots, and many other highly credible people. [13]

This report is for those of you who either believe the official story, aren’t sure what you believe, or think it doesn’t matter what you believe.

So -this organization, globalresearch, is bogus as well???

Show me how they are bogus. So far, as an educated American with an advanced degree in the humanities, I don't believe the official story anymore.

Originally posted by wildtimes


Paint chips? My arse. WHY WOULD THESE PROFESSIONALS in engineering, architecture, demolition, chemistry, fire-fighting, ALL SAY THE SAME THING? To sell T-shirts? Sorry. I don't buy it.

Nope it's defiantly paint chips. You can't have thermite without elemental aluminum. there was no elemental aluminum found, therefore: paint chips.

reply to post by wildtimes

I just finished reading Dirty Wars and my eyes have been opened to what the M-I complex, and the White House administration, in orchestration with the JSOC (along with mercenaries), actually DO. They bribe other leaders to help them "spy" and to turn in their own citizens; they give arms to other people; they make back-room deals with greedy people who don't give a rat's ass how many innocent people they kill.....

I won't disagree with you on this.
But there hasn't been total silence for 12 years either. People are talking about it.

911 total silence. How can the US government silence every single insider? Snowden? Manning?

The professionals in that AE2011 documentary were very sincere and serious - why would they jeopardize their careers and reputations just to sell some "T shirts and DVDs"? Why are there 1,500+ of them all in agreement, as a qualified 'community' of specialists, putting their own lives on the line?

I urge you to look at the qualifications of a bunch of the members of ae911.
Most of who could never stand up to cross examination given their degree/job.
Plus most of whom also state only that they would like to see a new investigation. Not that what happened could never happen.

Lastly the owner of ae911 has claimed he has the complete plans to the WTC. But he has never produced a peer reviewed paper to prove what he claimed.
From what I understand the only paper he produced was submitted to a 'pay to publish' organization.

Originally posted by samkent

From what I understand the only paper he produced was submitted to a 'pay to publish' organization.

Richard gage has never published anything, he just makes vague accusations and ask for a new investigation... and more money. Steven Jones published his thermite paper in the vanity journal.

reply to post by wildtimes

Were you there at Ground Zero at the time? Did you witness the tower falling? How many seconds did it take then? 20? 45?

No i wasn't but i did watch the whole thing on the news, I doubt you were actually there at the time either.

It imploded on its own footprint

it didnt, if that were the case other surrounding buildings would not have been damaged by it nor would it have blocked of a side street.

Nanothermite was found in the dust

haha, again it wasn't, the dust samples Jones et al used were all 5 years old ( at least) and there was no way to verify them because they were collected form random people who kept dust in their attic for art progjects. Also thermite cannot cut steel, thermate on the other hand can but Jones found not evidence of that as there was no trace elements of barium nitrate found in WTC dust and the paper was published in a micky mouse journal that probably was not peer reviewed. his findings have also be refuted by a whole bunch of people.

he probably found some paint.

by outside investigators.

who were highly bias towards a 9/11 conspiracy, Jones actually started talking about the possibility of thermite even before he published his "paper".

And another note he has also published work on how Christ visited the America's and he was sacked from his teaching post because of his wacky interests.

As for it "mattering" - Americans have more of a vested interest than foreigners do

That is unbelievably disrespectful, something like 400 or so of those killed were foreigners, not to mention my mate who lost his leg fighting in Afghanistan a war we wouldn't have been drawn into if it were not for 9/11.

if you want to continue this debate please respect that this was not just America's tragedy but a Global tragedy

but you didn't lose anything - your family members and loved ones didn't die

no but my mate lost his leg, how about you nip over to Glasgow and tell him that he didn't lose anything thanks to 9/11

the question is: "Who did this?"

19 Arabs who were part of a group call Al-Qa'ida.

An office fire does not get hot enough to cause molten steel like "lava".

Nobody is saying that, they did melt aluminum but not the steel.

There WERE explosions - at ALL THREE buildings

Ok so your saying at first it was thermite, which just so you know does not make any explosion type of noise, yet now you are saying explisions were heard. that would imply your arguing for a conventional controlled demolition but no proof of this has ever been provided. Indeed if this were the case it would have blown out windows and left lots of tell tail signs.

Your country has its own problems, what with your Shariah-controlled zones, etc

no such thing....

Yet your 'royal baby' diverted everyone away from the real "problems" going on globally

Dude, what does this have to do with 9/11, its just like your trying to divert attention form your week arguments by trying to bring little Georgy boy into things.

reply to post by waypastvne

The US air defence protects our borders from outside attacks, they do not track aircraft inside our borders. The air defence systems were never turned off.

I just looked at your wiki link.

The radar systems at NEADS had been scheduled to be upgraded in a contract awarded in 1997, but the project cost had been revised upwards by 700% causing the Air Force to cancel the contract and begin plans to re-open the bidding process.[53][54]

84th Squadron had planned on tracking transponder-less aircraft at some point prior to 9-11.[citation needed] Planning for terrorist use of hijacked airplanes as missiles had been considered for some military exercises prior to 9/11, though all but one of those exercises considered only aircraft originating from other countries.[55]

The US and Canadian militaries, particularly NORAD and the US Air National Guard, have been tasked with interception duties concerning hijacked aircraft. Their primary duty was assistance to law enforcement. Quoting Maj.Gen. Larry Arnold: "We always viewed an attack from within our borders as a law enforcement issue, ...".[56] Military aircraft were to be used to assure positive flight following, report unusual observances, and aid search and rescue in the event of an emergency.[1] Jamie Gorelick of the 9-11 Commission had taken part in those security measures as Deputy Attorney General, and described the measures in Commission hearings. In April 2001, NORAD considered an exercise in which an aircraft of foreign origin was hijacked by terrorists and flown into the Pentagon, like a missile, but rejected the scenario as implausible.[55] Five months later, a similar scenario occurred.[57]

That was another thing - the "planned exercise"....and the 'put off' of upgrades.

Here's a little more high strangeness:

The BBC Reports Collapse of WTC 7 (Solomon Building) Fifteen Minutes Before it Happens

If you have any doubts about the destruction of Building 7 being pre-planned, then watch the BBC’s Jane Standley report the collapse of WTC7 (Solomon Building) fifteen minutes before it occurred, while it appears standing behind her in this news clip:

Originally posted by waypastvne

Originally posted by wildtimes
Nanothermite was found in the dust - by outside investigators.

They found paint chips.

and how do you think fire proofing gets on iron etc you can just as easy paint on a explosive and the buildings were undergoing work months before the attack

[dp

reply to post by wildtimes

This article is from globalresearch.ca --
I don't know how 'reliable' they are, I only discovered them a couple days ago, but this article sums up a lot of evidence that points to collusion. It talks about AE911, about the 100s of Firefighters who heard the explosions after the planes it, the engineering of demolition, John Kerry himself talking about it being 'controlled demolition' on #7, along with DOZENS of military, FAA, NORAD and other assessments.

You are jumping again.

But did any firefigher say they were 'demolition' explosions?
You realize that fires cause other things to explode?
Contents also explode.
Steel structures make loud reports when exposed to fire.
Did you look at the document from implosionworld.com pertaining to 911?

Lets not bring FAA and Norad in to this as it's jumping.