Are you willing to die to protect the 4th Amendment?

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."
-Thomas Jefferson

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Ben Franklin

"Give me liberty or give me death!"
- Patrick Henry

We've all heard these quotes. Men have gone to war to protect these sentiments and our liberty. Those at home have sacrificed as well, though rarely as directly as those on the battlefields. However in this neoconservative/neoliberal era it is becoming harder and harder for our soldiers to convince themselves it is truly liberty they are fighting for. And to my mind, it may be those of us at home who will have to do more of the fighting.

Now, unlike many posts on here I'm not going to call for an amorphous armed rebellion against whatever ruling party is steering the boat. I'm not calling for violence at all from any of us. What I'm mostly doing is asking some questions.

What would it really mean to turn against and turn off the NSA's 4th Amendment breaching domestic spying programs?

What does it mean to bring to trial the prisoners from Guantanamo, who we have no evidence against, to come in line with our own principles of justice?

What would happen if we decided we didn't want to be scanned and sniffed and patted down to get on a plane, a train or into a stadium with no reasonable suspicion?

What if we insisted on the repeal of the DHS, PATRIOT ACT and the NDAA?

What if we demanded that our government find a way to track terrorists within the confines of our ideals?

A likely outcome, the predicted outcome from those in power, would be another attack. More lost lives to a terrorist strike on innocent Americans. Us. Our lives. Sacrificed for liberty. A loss our leaders tell us is unacceptable. They must protect us. And to do that they have to abandon our principles that got us here.

What we have so far collectively said to this line of reasoning is:

"Give me liberty or maybe not! Not if it means I have to die!"

So that is ultimately the question. Are we willing to die to protect the constitution? Are we willing to tell our leaders that we would rather die than to give up our freedoms?

Sadly I suspect not. We are now a nation of timid men. And we prefer the calm of despotism.

reply to post by evictiongnostic


WE are man enough to take on OUR countries leaders.

No one wants to die, and certainly no one to die for the principles that founded this Once Great Nation.

Though EVERYONE britches and complains about the hell hole they live in, they are Not willing to demonstrate that those principles are worth dying for.

It really is too bad that we don't think they way we did a couple of hundred years ago.

I was just discussing this with my Sister's Fiance yesterday.

There is a built in Obligation, that if you were born in the U.S. and are a U.S. Citizen, you are obligated to stand up for what the Constitution and Founding Founders meant this country to be about.

Built in Obligation. All of us are going to die anyway. Would you rather it be in old age, suffering in some hospital bed with the realization that you Apathetically did nothing? Or will it be that you died early, but died for something you have an Obligation to?

All food for thought. Opinions of course are relative and flexible

Originally posted by ShadellacZumbrum
reply to post by evictiongnostic

 

Though EVERYONE britches and complains about the hell hole they live in, they are Not willing to demonstrate that those principles are worth dying for.

It really is too bad that we don't think they way we did a couple of hundred years ago.

Actually that's not quite true. Some of us will still confront evil when presented. It is also tactically sound to avoid the enemy strongholds when you cannot win. That is not the same as not confronting them when required. It will be required soon IMO.

reply to post by Bassago


Of course it is true.

People in general think on a small scale.

They Fail to recognize Strength in Numbers.

Though you and I might be willing to die for OUR Freedoms, statistically speaking we may only make up less than 50% of the populous willing to do so.

What about the other 50%?

Well, that is the portion of the populous that is enrolled in entitlement programs. It is a forgone conclusion that No one wants to bite the hand that feeds them. Besides, they have safety and security, why should they defend freedoms when they can have their dependants provided for?

It is a crazy world. If people would just think about the numbers they would see that our country only has about 3 million troops between active and reserve militaries.

The last time I checked 300 million is a far greater number than 3 million. Sure there are going to be casualties but the strength lies in the numbers.

reply to post by ShadellacZumbrum


Its too bad we dont think like we did even sixty years ago. One generation after the next has been slowly chopped away at. Its all a game of control.....the government founded by the people for the people....the people have the ultimate say.

But we all know what up with the many game consoles and handhelds.....tablets smart phones in car entertainment.

How about fast food.....anything to make you fat and complacent......like a pig in sh!t. Then they can continue to chip away at your rights and you will be too busy cramming your faces and jamming out to lady gaga while killing zombies black ops style.

We are fooked

Im not sure about protecting the fourth amendment, but ill tell you this, im willing to die fighting before i am taken away to a camp. Im willing to stand up for whats right. If i see someone getting beat up, im usually the one who breaks it up. I would sacrifice myself to save many.

reply to post by shaneslaughta


We lost allot of values when we threw "An honest days work for an honest days pay" out the window.

I agree that we are a Fat and Lazy society. I think it is going to take Extraordinary circumstances to change OUR current course.

If everyone is waiting for Aliens to come and save us, or a catastrophic event to take our bills away then that is going to be a long wait in hell

I say, .. S[SNIP]T in one hand and wish in the other and you tell me which gets fuller faster.

Well since the OP was specific in reference to the 4th amendment it seems this in many ways boils down to individual resistance, in our homes or cars. Agreed that many of today's population doesn't even know what the Bill of Rights is and that these type of people have drank the koolaid.

This is one reason government is trying so desperately to keep the sham going. Most people don't react to anything short of a fire under their butts. Still many of us are aware and stand on our rights. Personally I've faced this with an alphabet agency once in the past and they were stopped at my doorstep.

Also it seems to me that having and believing in a strong 2nd amendment is what this will ultimately come down to. Each person needs to make their own choices on this and how they will react to any infringement of the 4th. Just saying.

Sure ,nothing else important going on,but it would be my objective to make THEM die not me.

Nobody HAS TO DIE.................
Really, no one would have to leave home...if we just refused to support the leaders who have usurped the constitution by deceit, and murder.....(make no mistake....The Government, does kill its own when convenient.....
Notice I say convenient...not even nessessary any more...just convenient.)
When the CIA runs lie detectors and truth serum on its own people constantly.....they have far too much to hide.....somethings askew in The intelligence world......in the whole governance of the nation really.....

I may have misunderstood the question. (I do that all the time.)

I'm certainly will to die to keep the Fourth Amendment, but I'm not willing to die to expose or stop one program out of dozens that is in violation of it.

Die to protect the 4th? OK. Die to stop the growth of the TSA? Or one of the programs spying on Americans? No, thanks.

"Come get some, bitches."
-beezzer

We live to leave a legacy. Be it with our children, our ideals, our teachings, our posts, our faith.

What will you be remembered by?

What will future generations learn from your existence?

reply to post by evictiongnostic


What if we insisted on the repeal of the DHS, PATRIOT ACT and the NDAA?

~~

Let's throw the CIA into the trash bin while we are cleaning house.

While i certainly agree with your ideology, i think the practical truth is that you would not like the outcome of the things you are asking about.

Forget the nations, forget the military.

Look at your own state, look in your own city and realize that over half those people would kill you if they found it necessary for their own survival. Say what you want about the government but they are less likely to kick down your door and kill everyone in your house over a bottle of pills or some pawnable items then a guy living down the street from you is.

We can bitch all we want about the NSA, in a way it is really rather funny. Most modern laptops, tablets and cell phones have built in cameras and microphones that can be activated by everyday hackers looking for a kick. But sure, lets suddenly be afraid of Big Brother and ignore the fact that we live in a modern society that is pushing towards "Constant Connectivity" every single day. Forget that we willingly post a huge amount of personal and semi personal information across a number of websites. This doesn't even count the info that was already on paper somewhere, part of a call list or stored in some company computers.

So no, i guess i am not willing to die to protect the privacy of a nation that seems to value exposing all of its dirty secrets on a regular basis.