The NSA: Snowden Told You "What"... Now Learn How and Why

wake me up when Mr. Snowden actually tells us something that we didn't already know!!!!

Originally posted by imitator

Originally posted by Hefficide
Sorry Snowden... you showed up to this party late.

Had to stop reading right there!!!
This thread wouldn't have been created if it weren't for Snowden!!!
The Op is the one who is late to this party.... maybe he/she should check into INFOWARS

Social and behavioral engineering is no mystery ever since the use of cathode rays!

edit on 11-8-2013 by imitator because: (no reason given)

My first thread discussing these issues was dated 1/17/11. Snowden was late to the party.

reply to post by Variable

Originally posted by Variable
I think your links are thin. Where do you present the bona fides of the first slides?

The PDF is directly from - and linked to - the official source. That is about as bona fide as a source can be, no?

Originally posted by Variable
What's the context? It sounds like they are talking about Iraq or Afghanistan and trying to figure out how to change people from believing in insurgents ideals. This is a mish-mash of topics barely linked in a coherent way. Utah "Bumblehive" Datacenter is just a big datacenter. Do you think insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan use the internet?

1) The context is clear. It is a discussion of information control and social engineering specific to the Human Social Culture Behavior Modelling Program.

2) The PDF mentions more than one theater - including north Africa. But what does that matter? A gun designed for soldiers in Iraq will shoot you just as dead if fired upon you in Cleveland.

3) I don't see a mish mash at all. Two dots to connect. One dot is this PDF, the other is Bumblehive. They directly relate and all one needs to connect two dots is a straight line.

Originally posted by Variable
I just don't buy it.

Given the mountain of proof available you don't buy that the US government is domestically spying, that the Utah facility is involved, that many major telecoms and Internet companies are complicit, and that the data is collected is being used to socially engineer?

I'd have to say that I cannot see how the evidence suggests anything but the above conclusions.

Great thread Heff. People wonder why I proudly proclaim myself a Luddite (the 19th C. English millworkers who smashed the automated looms to save their jobs). I want as little of the machine as possible. Every piece of it entices us to gather other pieces in the game of he-who-dies-with-the-most-toys-wins and gives them one more avenue of control over us.

I've heard it all: "you're just being paranoid", "you hate science or something?" and my favorite "you can't stop the future!". I can stop being a part of that dystopian future by the choices I make. I only started using a cellphone after I became disabled and pretty much the same for the internet. Too much time on my hands brought me here to discover what I long ago knew in my heart: Those who own the machines and the science use them towards their own ends.

They are clever enough to make us buy them for ourselves. They don't even have to force us to wear the Star of David, heck, we'll wait overnight in long lines to be the first to get the newest version!

The ultimate goal in warfare is to achieve your aims with a minimum of force. I would have to say they have been wildly successful in this war for our hearts and minds. Yet there is still resistance, those who would not willingly comply with their schemes. For them the next generation of tech is coming if indeed it is not already being used in mass application.

Until now we have been able to opt out of the machine by now buying into their latest gadgetry. With the advent of nanotech we'll have no way of even knowing whether their machines are inside of us or not. This is where things get really hairy.

In their mad rush for absolute control they have bankrupted our economies and attempted to destroy anything that stood in their way. It may seem they are getting their way but it is their arrogance that will be their downfall. The story of Frankenstein contains a basic truth that applies here: at some point what we create will fall out of our own control and so it will be with their "system". That which they use to control us all will create unforeseen possibilities and take on a life and direction of it's own destroying any would try to reign it in.

The greater the scale of the power they hope to wield the greater the odds become of it slipping beyond their control. Their inability to say no will bring their ruin. We may not outlive them to see it but trust me when I say it will happen.

reply to post by Hefficide

Given the mountain of proof available you don't buy that the US government is domestically spying, that the Utah facility is involved, that many major telecoms and Internet companies are complicit, and that the data is collected is being used to socially engineer?

Well the Utah facility isn't online yet. So no, it isn't involved. But to your greater point... I'm saying the ideas and thoughts expounded in the PDF and the Utah datacenter don't really fit together. I think what you are trying to connect is, here is a document from somewhere, listing ideas in a very abstract way about understanding why people don't like OUR ideas and changing those same people to believing what WE want them to. While over here on this side of the world we have a datacenter that collects large amounts of data. From this you extrapolate that "Bumbelhive" what exactly?

That currently the US government is hated or disliked by the US population, and from spying on them and collating data, the government will be able to cleverly draft speeches to the President that will get everyone liking the government?

Also, assuming this document is the guiding force of all US Doctrine in the Middle East for a minute. Assume it is the bible which these guys follow. How is it working?

Don't you think McNamara had a psychiatric squad working on similar documents regarding the winning over North Vietnam? I'm sure they did. I'll bet we spent oodles of money on BS like that.

I also don't think the idea that we have egg heads trying to figure out how to make the bad people hate us less is that revelatory. I don't know how you change peoples minds in Afghanistan or Iraq with datacenters though.

As for the Datacenter in Utah, I think its blown out of proportion. I knew it from the get go because the claims were pretty ludicrous. NSA Datacenter not that big

As for taking in vast amounts of data and trying to make sense of it. That goes on all the time from all types of industry. This is how a lot of marketing is done for instance; Even with all that data and millions spent on a campaigns, they fail miserably. It happens all the time and these guys are probably much more nimble and adept than bureaucrats. Just my 2 cents.

I am more worried about the militarization of domestic law enforcement. But that doesn't matter to this thread.


V

reply to post by Variable


I very much share your concern with the militarization of domestic law enforcement, but perhaps you are not giving enough attention to other government mischief.

a problem all of us face here on ATS is, how much paranoia and distrust can we take before we start becoming unable to function normally even when we are told the truth? we tend to lean toward the side or sides we are comfortable with. that does not mean everything is necessarily true, but we put our trust in that particular side of the arguement

Bottom line is population control. And by that I mean killing off the less connected, less powerful.

Unfortunately, this will leave a lot of fat old wrinkled turds hanging out at Marcus Neiman.

Originally posted by Hefficide
My first thread discussing these issues was dated 1/17/11. Snowden was late to the party.

lol I still disagree, your preaching to the choir here on ATS, as you know mass surveillance is no mystery in this place... whereas Snowden goes public! As well the NSA data center in Utah is going public! In our face kind of thing, welcome to Oceania right! Snowden is just a pawn up endgame, they are winning a already won game!

Anyway, it's the general public who is late to the party! The public will always be on the defense while Big Brother attacks and shapes a desirable totalitarian state! I'm sure there will be another who will be deliberately let loose and attempt to deprogram the public from herd behavior. Snowden is just a Test, Tune and Tweak!

Originally posted by covertpanther
I dont even care about this survelliance bull*. All it comes down to is this; there is a colective in the government, who are a bunch of low-life creeps, with zero morality, zero care of humanity or anything but their half ass "goals" or agenda..

Yes..that is true and very much real, but the general population cares not about what you say or type for it has been merged into a non threat and deemed a necessity to have such a function within society.


Yes...we really do know and implement what we know and the results are without a doubt far more positive than any scifi novel you may or who ever you may know that has read.

On a digital level i have limited time to even respond to your cerebral cortex. We have achieved far more than what a humble and approved site is capable of publishing. I assure you we never go away, or do we ever fade within time and history.

Please take the time to inform yourself and keep in mind that this is, was and may have benn way before the invention of any known english or non english terminology or methods of publication used to direct a threat to the mass way before the use and understanding of what the actual function of social media as a terminology and its implementation within the global economy.




You exist to server us.

A taste of the future

Originally posted by max1215
wake me up when Mr. Snowden actually tells us something that we didn't already know!!!!

He can't, and you've only been shown a small fraction of what he had.

His current asylum is contingent upon his agreement to stop leaking NSA secrets. Fact is Snowden doesn't have that material anymore, it was being held as a kind of dead man switch if something happened to him, and would be released to the media. It may be all that is keeping him safe, and assuring his asylum now.

He did confirm what most of you already know, he could have done a lot more damage and didn't.

IMO.

Great read and info OP, by the way... One thing, if you only knew the when with the real how and why, it could bring about a whole new perspective on all of this...

It all comes down to this. If you want privacy:

1. Do not use the cloud to store data or send e-mail
   
2. Use your own cloud server, e.g. Synology, with strong authentication and encryption. Configure your firewall to drop unwanted connections.
   
3. If you must chat or post on Twitter, Facebook and whatnot, use a TOR live CD on a virtual machine and use a secure browser profile, which means Java and JS must be disabled at all times.
   

Absolutely awesome thread.

This party has been going on for a long long time. It's worth doing a bit of reading (hell, if I ever find the time I'll try to do a thread on it) on the PROMIS system of the 1980s (allegedly stolen by Edwin Meese and the Justice Dept), as well as looking at the evil genius of Michael Riconsciuto and the connection between himself, his associates, and just about any historical conspiracy event of the 20th century, from the Kenneth Arnold UFO sighting, JFK assassination, the early Haight Ashbury psychedelic scene as a MK Ultra experiment, right up to Tim Osman/Osama Bin Laden, and many other truly dark events.

I don't want to hijack this thread, so to my main point, which is that we seem (as the OP has discussed) to be moving toward a truly Total Information Aware society, but the reins are held by largely stupid (in a philosophical sense) people with reptilian brains. Behind these people, perhaps a darker force lurks (insert your own particular paranoia - Nazis, Illuminati, Satanists, Reptilians, etc), and perhaps not.

What is truly scary is that it appears that the Global Panopticon machinery is just about (if not already) in place, and that an opaque totalitarian world has the possibility of removing enemies of the state, with large sections of global society at best, potentially unknowingly complicit, and even scarier, perhaps unaware that such activities are even happening.

Paranoia strikes deep.

reply to post by Hefficide


I still have to go through this when I have the time to do so...

This PDF and slides are dated July 14, 2010 ( Awesome... my birth date

Wow, and you're only two years old? That's impressive.....

Just kidding Heff....

Looks like a great piece of work....

I'm just shocked they can actually STORE all the metadata they collect.

reply to post by Gazrok


Are you kidding? An article from last year reveals that scientists have developed a method of storing a byte of data on 12 iron atoms - or is it carbon? Either way, whereas it would take a million atoms to hold a single byte of data, they have whittled it down to 12 atoms. Something to do with alternating polarity to eliminate the magnetic field or some such...anyway, they are developing methods of storing more data in less space.

I don't think quantity is going to be a problem. It's the government, after all, and I'm sure military funding is being funneled in like Packers fans into a Green Bay stadium.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


It obviously isn't a problem, if they've been archiving it...but they must be sitting on some pretty impressive tech to do it. No currently available storage media (available to the public) could hold it....

Originally posted by Manipulativebehavior

Originally posted by covertpanther
I dont even care about this survelliance bull*. All it comes down to is this; there is a colective in the government, who are a bunch of low-life creeps, with zero morality, zero care of humanity or anything but their half ass "goals" or agenda..

Yes..that is true and very much real, but the general population cares not about what you say or type for it has been merged into a non threat and deemed a necessity to have such a function within society.


Yes...we really do know and implement what we know and the results are without a doubt far more positive than any scifi novel you may or who ever you may know that has read.

When I made that post; do you THINK I made it to the general population?

Let me help, obviously NOT. Or I would of made a facebook post..

Welcome to Ats rook

Wow, what a bunch of sociopaths!
Impressive thread man, have a flag, and a star, and other virtual expressions of "Epic!"

Originally posted by drakus
Wow, what a bunch of sociopaths!
Impressive thread man, have a flag, and a star, and other virtual expressions of "Epic!"

It's worth complimenting the effort that has gone into this well constructed informative thread, and many posters are adding their 2 cents worth, hardly a sign of sociopathic behaviour.

Exactly what your own comments are adding to the worth of this thread is debatable, but I see no problem in other posters acknowledgement of what can be considered an inspiring amount of research and relevant details from the OP.