A Near Death Experience - Purgatory

I like to read about Near Death Experiences. Sometimes they are really interesting. Other times they are flakey and really silly (One I read had a woman going with Jesus to listen to a lecture given by Martin Luther. Who would want to go to a lecture in Heaven by Martin Luther, especially when Jesus was standing right next to you ) I found THIS one about purgatory to be interesting.

The landscape that the woman met when she died, mirrored her mood at death. She was a suicide. The landscape and situation 'on the other side' matched her spiritual/mood final situation on earth. She calls where she was 'purgatory'.

A Purgatorial Near Death Experience

Where was I? I was immersed in darkness. My eyes seemed to adjust, and I could see clearly even though there was no light. I was aware that I was standing on what felt like solid ground, but nothing was there. The darkness continued in all directions and seemed to have no end, but it wasn’t just blackness, it was an endless void, an absence of light. I knew that it had its own life and purpose. It was completely enveloping." ...

Then came a whoosh! Suddenly, as if we had been waiting for a kind of sorting process to take place, I was sucked further into the darkness by an unseen and undefined power, leaving the teenagers behind. I was flying upright, moving at warp speed, like a comet shooting out of nowhere. I sensed that I was going faster than any man-made aircraft could fly, but without the physical effects of flight or the pull of gravity. Nor did I have any sense of the temperature, of the coldness you’d expect to find in deep space, or any way to judge time. I was probably flying for a fraction of a second.”

Suddenly she found herself on the edge of a shadowy plane, suspended again in darkness and shrouded in a black mist that swirled around her feet, that formed a barrier up to her hips, that held her prisoner.

There is more .. much more ... to her story. Go to the link and read. I am only allowed to put three paragraphs up. So this is just a little of what she says.

She calls this place 'purgatory'. Protestants don't like that term. But it makes sense. Sometimes people have unfinished business on earth .. or they have inordinate attachments (addictions, etc) ... or they have things to work out before they move on. This is where we get ghosts from ... IMHO. It makes sense.

I didn't like the part about people being there for what seemed like forever and that they gave up hope. That doesn't seem like a very loving God to do that. But then again .. look at Earth ... God doesn't seem to get involved much here either.

As for the woman, she isn't selling a book. She isn't going on tours. (that I know of). She's just telling her story of suicide and a near death experience to what she calls purgatory.

OH .. and before anyone says that I'm on an anti-suicide pro-God conversion rant or something ... you should know two things -

1 - I have been very outspoken about being in favor of physician assisted suicide for ANY adult who wants it for ANY reason. Chronic illness. Terminal illness. Whatever the reason. I have here many times that I believe that people should be allowed to end their own pain as they see fit. (I've also said that I don't know about the case of Children ... that's touchy).

2 - 15 years ago, a friend of mine from high school committed suicide. I lived 1500 miles away from him at the time. Before I was told that he committed suicide ... he came to visit ... in the spirit. I was sitting in my bedroom and hadn't thought of Steve for years. While I was sitting there the thought of him came to me very strongly. And at the same time it felt like someone was hugging my soul and that the soul hugging mine was 'fine'. It wasn't a physical hug .. it was a soul to soul 'hug'. I have no other words for it. Two days later my mother called to say that Steve had committed suicide (by car in the Garage). So I then understood that the visitation a few days before really was Steve saying that he was fine. His suicide didn't send him to hell or anything like that.

But wait! The Roman Catholic Church did away with Purgatory, did it not? How can this woman have gone there when Purgatory is no more? When the RCC says something is no longer a doctrine, God has no choice but to dismantle what the doctrine represents on the other side.

EDIT: I went for another cup of coffee, and remembered that it was not Purgatory that the RCC did away with, it was Limbo. My bad. So God had to dismantle Limbo, by order of the RCC. So the woman could have gone to Purgatory. Well, I don't believe in Purgatory - the Lake of Fire is enough.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
But wait! The Roman Catholic Church did away with Purgatory, did it not? How can this woman have gone there when Purgatory is no more? When the RCC says something is no longer a doctrine, God has no choice but to dismantle what the doctrine represents on the other side.

EDIT: I went for another cup of coffee, and remembered that it was not Purgatory that the RCC did away with, it was Limbo. My bad. So God had to dismantle Limbo, by order of the RCC. So the woman could have gone to Purgatory. Well, I don't believe in Purgatory - the Lake of Fire is enough.

edit on 9-8-2013 by Lazarus Short because: lah-de-dah

Limbo is a concept that grew out of the teachings of Saint Augustine, and was basically an attempt to console people whose children were still-born or died before they could be baptized. In refuting a heresy, Augustine said that anyone who didn't have a valid Catholic baptism was condemned (something I think was unnecessary for that particular heresy) and thus you had parents who grieved over a child lost for eternity. To counter that, someone came up with the concept of Limbo, where babies, who were innocent but not baptized, went -- no punishment, but just not in heaven.

It was never an official church doctrine, so the RCC statement that, no, there is no such thing as Limbo, babies are innocent and they're saved regardless of baptism, doesn't change church teaching and, so far as the church is concerned, there never was such a place, so God didn't need to dismantle anything.

The church is reflective of God, God is not reflective of the church.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
But wait! The Roman Catholic Church did away with Purgatory, did it not?

No.

Well, I don't believe in Purgatory - the Lake of Fire is enough.

Sometimes things are real no matter if we believe in them or not.


I do believe a 'purgatory' is real. Not like the pictures the old Catholic church tells about,
but I think that unfinished business or inordinate attachments cause a soul to be stuck
and not able to move on. This is where we get ghosts. That's the kind of purgatory I think exists.

I could be wrong. But that's what I think .... (at this time)

One of my bosses in Alaska died during heart surgery and when after they revived her, she had told them about her NDE.

According to her, she found herself in a room like a waiting room with two doors, and she watched people go in either one or the other.

I wish I could remember the rest of her story, but the end result was one lead to heaven, and one to hell.
She was pretty serious about it and wondered why the doors are not mentioned more often.

Personally I think that what you believe is what you will get when you die, at least at first.
But then, I would have to die in order to know for sure.
I did have a very good friend of mine come back and visit me about 5 years after she died and she told me that she was hanging out in her old house where she had the happiest memories of her life before she went someplace better, kind of like a period of reflection,so that could be a sort of purgatory of sorts.
Seems though that different people experience different things, which is why I think what you believe is what you get until you come to some sort of realization about your life/lives.

reply to post by adjensen


Sorry, I was being sarcastic. Again, my bad. Coffee's done - I'm better now.

reply to post by Darkblade71

I would hope the doors were labeled so she would know which door she wanted to go through!

Also - what your visitor said about hanging out at home ... that's kind of what I think ghosts are.
They have a bit of time to do here ... to get things straight in their minds or to work off inordinate
attachments ... things like that. They have to do that before they move on ...

Originally posted by adjensen

The church is reflective of God, God is not reflective of the church.

The church is reflective of society.

God has nothing to do with the church.

Originally posted by OneManArmy

Originally posted by adjensen

The church is reflective of God, God is not reflective of the church.

The church is reflective of society.

Which explains perfectly why the Roman Catholic church is so well in alignment with secular society, right?

The teachings of Christ, while unpopular today, are still reflected in the teachings of the church.

reply to post by FlyersFan


thank you FF

... i ve a serious question though please

..i ve read many NDE s... but many dont Click with me

untill i found out, that, appereantly, there are Astral worlds just above ours
almost like our world is a copy of them
- and those worlds, landscapes, cities, are NOT God's

they have factories and trains and golden streets and what-all in them

so with this in mind,
i started to vieuw those NDEs
who claim they were in Heaven

...perhaps some were
....but i cannot shake off the thought, they was but visiting this astral Above [ to our below]

...what you think please ?

best wish,

Near Death Experiences

Here is an open site that anyone can post their Near Death Experiences.
Some are really interesting. Some are not.
I've read a bunch of them. Four things seem to be common in those I feel are more authentic ...

1 - People don't communicate with speech in the afterlife. It's by thought. And everyone can hear everyone elses' thoughts and feelings perfectly. I don't know if I'm really comfortable with that .... not much privacy.

2 - Information is instant. You think 'I want to know about ....' and that information is instantly in your head. Automatic download. That's pretty cool. I have a lot of questions ...

3 - Movement is instant. If you think that you want to go somewhere .. POOF .. you are there.

4 - Field of vision is all around. It's not just straight ahead like we have in our bodies here. It's front and back and side and side and up and down .... it's in all directions at once. I can't wrap my head around that ... but that's what is a very common statement with NDE'ers.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Here's a vid outlinging her experience.

Here's another very interesting account

Ian McCormack was night diving off the island of Mauritius when he was stung multiple times by Box Jellyfish, which are among the most venomous creatures in the world. His testimony relates how he clung to life while getting to hospital, was declared clinically dead soon afterwards, and how during this time he had an encounter with Jesus, which radically changed the direction of his life. Link

Originally posted by Lone12
there are Astral worlds just above ours

Some people who have had near death experiences have said that they feel this mundane world of ours is like a shadow world of what is to come. I remember seeing this priest on the Mother Angelica Live Show tell about his near death experience. He was condemned to hell when he died ... but then Jesus mother Mary showed up and asked for a second chance for him so he was sent back. In the live show, he stated that this world we are in now 'is the shadow world and the world yet to come is the real one'. This one is a poor poor faint reflection of the next. That's kind of how he described it.

I am pretty sure that string theorists say that there are 11 dimensions.

And there are many theorists who believe in the multiverse theory.

I would imagine that the world to come could be in any of the 4-11 dimensions or in one of the many multiverses. There are probably bunches of 'next worlds' .... We won't know until we get there.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by OneManArmy

Originally posted by adjensen

The church is reflective of God, God is not reflective of the church.

The church is reflective of society.

Which explains perfectly why the Roman Catholic church is so well in alignment with secular society, right?

The teachings of Christ, while unpopular today, are still reflected in the teachings of the church.

The writings that the catholic churches are based are set perfectly in with the society with which they were written. Nearly 2000 years ago. Over the years the church has adapted, reformed, had countless sects based on different interpretations of the same words from 2000 years ago. As attitudes have changed, so has the churches stance to remain relevant. Even to the point that the pope said just the other day that "who is he to judge gays"
The church changes with the times, it might be a bit slow(arrogance of the leadership does that), but it does change. In these modern scientific times, religions have to be so much more flexible with their position as RELIGIOUS MASS BRAINWASHING is now losing its power as a tool for control, as people can see through the blatant falsehoods that are touted as the words of an infallable man/god.
Although you might find that hard to believe in the bible belt of the usa. But hell they would rather believe a fairy tale than the facts.

The catholic church is still very powerful, but as it loses its grip on the minds of the gullible and ignorant it must adapt to survive.

NOW ONTO THE TOPIC OF NDE's.

Im very interested in the subject of near death experiences, I have already previously seen some of the videos posted here, its one of those subjects that you will never actually know until its "your turn" so to speak.

But like everything, it has to be taken with an amount of skepticism, I would love to think that there is more to existence than this materialistic world and its lack of purpose and meaning.

I often see these videos come from religious(christian) film makers, and Im still led to wonder if they are just some agenda of the church. But I do have an open mind on the subject simply because it cant actually be proven. It makes for good pondering.

I think the fundamental "problem" is that no one can BE "dead", and, that God, who is all good and just and righteous, cannot compromise with sin and evil, thus the intercessory Grace of Jesus Christ as an ingenious solution to the problem.

It is also important to note that of all the NDE's including those involving an experience of hell or purgatory, that none of them ended up there, permanently.

Imho, Jesus Christ has crashed the gate of hell which did not prevail. Therefore, he has the power to prevent it, or to remove people from it.

Tragically however there are many who for extremely biased reasons born of ignorance would refuse such help, time and time again, and again, so they are then left to the hell of their own making without redemption.

Even from a reincarnation perspective, such a process must be progressive and evolutionary, not degenerative, so whoever has given themselves over to evil and darkness are going to have a hard time in finding a way out.

reply to post by FlyersFan


That is pretty much how I understand it.
Depending on where a person is at in their understanding of their life and role they played effecting others, that period of reflection could be very fast, or very slow.
Kind of like reincarnation, which I believe is also somehow attached to it all, the time it takes to reincarnate seems to vary so a part of that time if not all (?) is spent reflecting.

It has been many years since my last incarnation, which was sometime in the late 1800's/early 1900's, so I spent at least 70 years between lifetimes. I wonder how much of that was reflecting. I have always wondered what happens in between. I guess I already know the answer....lol

*shrug*

Originally posted by Darkblade71


It has been many years since my last incarnation, which was sometime in the late 1800's/early 1900's, so I spent at least 70 years between lifetimes. I wonder how much of that was reflecting. I have always wondered what happens in between. I guess I already know the answer....lol

*shrug*

But that would depend on time being linear in the spiritual realm.

I love this subject because its so very much speculation and philosophy.

Im interested in how you have this knowledge of past lives, and why you have no knowledge of the inbetween?

reply to post by OneManArmy


During meditation I had asked the universe if reincarnation was a real valid experience and that night after I went to bed I relived the last few hours of my last lifetime.

I was a native American working for the US military raising dog/wolf hybrids in some sort of experiment.
I found just the other day that the Russians also did this but not until the 1950's.

Didn't find anything on US/native experiments though.

From my understanding time in the spirit realm does not exist like it does here, however, it must to some extent.
I figure time is circular, and not linear, but appears linear to us because we live such short lifetimes.
My personal thought is that time runs in a circle.
But that is just a crazy thought.

reply to post by OneManArmy

As attitudes have changed, so has the churches stance to remain relevant. Even to the point that the pope said just the other day that "who is he to judge gays" The church changes with the times, it might be a bit slow(arrogance of the leadership does that), but it does change.

Except that the church does not change its doctrine and core message. They may have a different way of saying it today than in 1960 or 1500, but it's still the same thing. Why did the Pope say "who is he to judge gays?" Because the church has always taught that it is the act of sexual immorality that is the sin, not the fact that one is gay. We don't burn witches anymore, thankfully, but not because the church has decided that witchcraft is okay.

Now, you may have a point about other offshoots from the Roman Catholic church -- on the next episode of the Loudmouth show (Sunday night at 7:30 Eastern on ATS Radio, lol) I have a go at the American Episcopal church which, while trying to "stay with the times", has actually begun to jettison orthodox Christian doctrine, such as the resurrection and Christ's divinity -- they are losing mass amounts of members as a result, but they're still doing it, in an effort to become a "modern church."

But the Roman Catholic church, which points to Apostolic succession as evidence that it is "the" church that Christ founded at Pentecost (something I personally take issue with, but...), does not create new doctrine, it just clarifies what it already has, so it is unlikely to fall into the trap that the Episcopalians have, and it's why many former Episcopalians are now Catholic.