They R Spying on Ewe.

Hello boys and girls,

I was criticized for a few comments I made about the “government spying fad”.

It is a fad.

It has always been cool to be pissed off at the government but now we can accuse them of spying.

Do you think this is a new thing? The government has been spying on you since the day you were born.
Now we have proof which is really not a big deal because nobody will do anything to change things.

What are you going to do? Complain to the government?

It sucks but rather than complaining start thinking of a solution.

Don’t ask me I don't have an answer I just cover my azz.

reply to post by gotya


I humbly disagree with the conclusions.

Yes, domestic spying, to varying degrees, has been going on longer than Cyberspace has existed - though such things used to require a court order. And, sure, Hoover and others did sneak past court orders to spy on their selected enemies.

The differences between then and now are, however, astounding. Hoover, for example, could only utilize the things his spying obtained as a tool for blackmail. He could not use it to obtain warrants nor was it admissible in a court of law. Plus the average citizen was insulated by the labor intensive nature of surveilling in those days. All but a few of us were immune from it.

That has all changed. Now, thanks to technology, we are all arbitrarily watched on a daily basis and this warrantless spying can be used to obtain warrants and also against us in court - a clear and direct violation of the First, Fourth, and Fifth Amendments.

This is a brand new ball game ( evolving since the mid eighties onward ) that threatens to change everything in the Western world.

reply to post by Hefficide

Yes, domestic spying, to varying degrees, has been going on longer than Cyberspace has existed - though such things used to require a court order. And, sure, Hoover and others did sneak past court orders to spy on their selected enemies.

That has all changed. Now, thanks to technology, we are all arbitrarily watched on a daily basis and this warrantless spying can be used to obtain warrants and also against us in court - a clear and direct violation of the First, Fourth, and Fifth Amendments.

Who selected the enemies?

The same people who run the show today.

As far as the violations we invited the infiltration with our arrogance.

I ask again not for evidence but for a solution.

reply to post by Hefficide


I agree with your comment. The key word is "warrant".

Your 4th Amendment knowledge well known.

How are they ever going to get around that one word?

Unless, we are already considered to be criminals.

My last hope is the Judicial Branch. But I'm not holding my breath.

It seems to me our forefathers already had this fight. Yet, here we are.

Originally posted by gotya
Hello boys and girls,

I was criticized for a few comments I made about the “government spying fad”.

It is a fad.

It has always been cool to be pissed off at the government but now we can accuse them of spying.

Do you think this is a new thing? The government has been spying on you since the day you were born.
Now we have proof which is really not a big deal because nobody will do anything to change things.

What are you going to do? Complain to the government?

It sucks but rather than complaining start thinking of a solution.

Don’t ask me I don't have an answer I just cover my azz.

""It sucks but rather than complaining start thinking of a solution. """

My solution is simple. Government ignores its citizens. Don't bother complaining to them. Government bends over backwards for corporations. Go to the corporation for change. Call your cell phone provider and tell them you are canceling your service because they are allowing the government to unconstitutionally spy on you. Then call your isp and do the same. Rinse, repeat. How many people will it take doing this before something is done? I am guessing less than a million.

reply to post by ohioriver


Excellent!

Hit them where it hurts in the pocketbook.

Of course one or two people won't make a difference but thousands of people would get their attention.

Good thinking.

Originally posted by gotya
Hello boys and girls,

I was criticized for a few comments I made about the “government spying fad”.

It is a fad.

It has always been cool to be pissed off at the government but now we can accuse them of spying.

Do you think this is a new thing? The government has been spying on you since the day you were born.

Don’t ask me I don't have an answer I just cover my azz.

I like this post and it is provocative!! Also, something that every citizen should be concerned with. I just have difference of opinion in some ares:

o As far as the OP, I don't agree this is a 'fad' a short lived action or an action that will fade away. I believe the effort to improve Defense Intelligence and use it to help defend America has been going on for quite some time and as the technology improves so will our spying acivities

o Let's simply look at case of spying on Americans, as an example the case of :

Julius Rosenberg (May 12, 1918 – June 19, 1953) and Ethel Greenglass Rosenberg (September 25, 1915[1] – June 19, 1953) were United States citizens convicted of conspiracy to commit espionage during a time of war, and executed. Their charges were related to the passing of information about the atomic bomb to the Soviet Union.

o So spying on American citizens where their is good information, intentions and motivations ocurr where our government has stepped and prosecuted and caught int'l spies.

I will say, I have served our country in a couple areas. So, perhaps slightly biased, but, I am in favor of all assets, technoligies that are used to protect America.

Also, to date, I am unaware of anything related to the current NSA activities that there have been NO cases brought forward showing this NSA technology has been used to bring an American to trial and being convicted of charges without cause and also approved by the FISA Courts.

Originally posted by Hefficide
Yes, domestic spying, to varying degrees, has been going on longer than Cyberspace has existed - though such things used to require a court order..........That has all changed. Now, thanks to technology, we are all arbitrarily watched on a daily basis and this warrantless spying can be used to obtain warrants and also against us in court.....This is a brand new ball game ( evolving since the mid eighties onward ) that threatens to change everything in the Western world.

And Heff, as noted above, I for one am in favor of our government employing any device, technology, asset to be used to protect the citzens of America.

It can be a slippery slope, However, so far, nothing that Edward Snowden points out or describes of a 'specific' of an American Citizen was targeted...a name an instance where the system was abused and 'so and so' were violated. The technology is there. After 9/11/01, it became clear there were gaps in the sharing of information between agencies, so new protocols, new methods and technologies have been employed to help us identify Terrorists. And if there are Foreign entities which have been identified by our assets that are communicating with entities living in American (may here on visa's, maybe disgruntled lone wolves) trying to find some way to attack America again.

Succinctly, I see what 'speculating' on the bad things.....but I see the bigger picture....we are trying to find these terrorist and if some American for a logical reason is targeted....I have no problem with it.

I guess (another thread could be made) there are a lot of things we don't know about the intricate elements of spying, however....what purpose to look at every Americans email or phone numbers? Really? Why? As I said, no one that we know of has come forward indicating use of this asset has affected any citizen in an adverse way that has been approved by FISA. Potential for misuse, Yes!! We need to review what the system is doing, and make sure these assets are in fact not hurting American citizens.

In closing, I believe in the NSA tracking system as well as anything similar, different system being used by the CIA, FBI, DIA, NRO and any unknown agency being used to protect America and it's citizens a good thing. Honestly, I've seen nothing that would affect 'MY' life personally. Peace!! ID!!!

reply to post by gotya


The answer is simple. A receiver capable of tuning in to the same frequencies they are.

Originally posted by ItDepends

In closing, I believe in the NSA tracking system as well as anything similar, different system being used by the CIA, FBI, DIA, NRO and any unknown agency being used to protect America and it's citizens a good thing. Honestly, I've seen nothing that would affect 'MY' life personally. Peace!! ID!!!

[

The only other observation that I would like to consider is this. There are 100's of private, non-government Defense Contractors that have 1,000' of people employed and have signed a simple contract on security clearances, and how sensitive information is to be protected, and better safeguards on how, who, and what non-government company employees have access to that could be compromised.

We have found many chinese spies working in the Los Alamos labs stealing code and details about some of our most sophisticated research being given to the Chinese government. Fact!!

Edit: Spying has been going since man began to figth one and other. I'm sure their spys/enemies and even ally's like Israel that are here in America spying on us. That's our world!

reply to post by ItDepends


That's why you have filtering systems to keep immigrants off sensitive information. And if they are home grown see how far back you have to go before you reach an immigrant. Easy!

Originally posted by 0d1n5Unh0ly6h05t
reply to post by ItDepends

 

That's why you have filtering systems to keep immigrants off sensitive information. And if they are home grown see how far back you have to go before you reach an immigrant. Easy!

I understand what you are saying. However, the current thread is that they are spying on us. An obvious flaw ocurred for a contractor employee to download, copy sensitve material proves that the filtering system wasn't working, although Snowden is not an immigrant, except under his new digs, he is an immigrant there.

reply to post by ItDepends


All that back story your talking about there ain't what the op says. Although I see what your saying. The op summarizes to say that the gov. is spying in general.

That has all changed. Now, thanks to technology, we are all arbitrarily watched on a daily basis and this warrantless spying can be used to obtain warrants and also against us in court - a clear and direct violation of the First, Fourth, and Fifth Amendments.

That is a perfect assessment.

We allow ourselves to be spied with the technology we use. Its like crying after fire catches on when playing with gasoline.

Government is pretty much using what is given to them, and they do it under many guise.. "for your protection" "prevent terrorist"...

I say its people fault for the reason we are in this mess, not the government, altho it feels good to blame them at the end of the day. not saying government are innocent or anything.