Teen Suicide: Hannah Smith due to Social media

Originally posted by stargatetravels
reply to post by Mister_Bit

 

Well of course but their actions led to her death, their bullying resulted in her making that decision
They directly had an effect that led to her death, the site did not and has no control, like every other site, over what users post to one another.

Your comparison does not work.

The bullies caused her death.

Well yes and no

It's nothing to do with the website, agreed.

but

People can't make you do anything, full stop....

If you seek attention, you will get attention, the good, the bad and the nasty.

Let me say again I was only posting to say that there actions where a little 'odd'

May I give my heart felt sympathy for the loss of there daughter. I did not mean no offence or malice towards the parents I was just raising an opinion. Belive me the last thing I would want to do is to cause harm! That is not my nature!

Also my origional post seemed a litle harsh! Appologies.

Originally posted by jroduk
Let me say again I was only posting to say that there actions where a little 'odd'

May I give my heart felt sympathy for the loss of there daughter. I did not mean no offence or malice towards the parents I was just raising an opinion. Belive me the last thing I would want to do is to cause harm! That is not my nature!

Also my origional post seemed a litle harsh! Appologies.

edit on 8-8-2013 by jroduk because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-8-2013 by jroduk because: (no reason given)

Hey! NEVER be sorry for thinking and having opinions!

If people get offended, that is their problem, not yours.

Originally posted by jroduk
reply to post by hp1229

 

OK would you goto a media company VERY shortly after a death!
I would be to messed up!
Seriously!
Would you!

?????What are you talking about? Why would I go to a media company after a death? (atleast the same day). A death such as this (suicide) requires to atleast call the local authorities to investigate and file a report as it might not be a suicide after all. The obvious question would be 'Why' for few hours/days. I'm confused by your question. But definitely I'll approach the media/press after few days without a doubt if indeed a legitimate case of 'suicide' due to cyber bullying.

Originally posted by jroduk
A lot of opinions but no real YES or NO I will ask again if you found your daughter dead via your computer would you goto the press days after it had happened crying?
Me personaly no I would need counciling and medication!
So would you goto a gutter press and start crying on camera if your daughter killed herself?
Yes or No?

I would say Yes. This way atleast the news/messge can be used as a precautionary measure to other parents and youngsters before its too late for them.

reply to post by hp1229



The reason why this type of situation has been happening so often is precisely because of the media attention the cases have been going. Some disillusioned teen is debating what to do with their life, and the choose to end it for the attention. I know that sounds like an awful thing to say, but as a victim of bullying and suicidal thoughts, and knowing a lot of people who dealt with similar issues, I can't in good conscious say that bullies and social networking is ever the end-all be-all.

I read about this the other day, and what interested me is that Hannah, in the exchanges with the bullies, handled herself really well. She fought back. I suspect that there is far more to her suicide than meets the eye, she didn't kill herself just because of bullying but because she had turned to an online community for help, and that community rejected and ridiculed her. Presumably, she felt that she had no other option or avenues for help to pursue and gave up.

The reaction of the father is understandable I suppose, it is easier to lash out and blame others, rather than realise that his daughter was in pain and didn't feel able to turn to him for help. He has a lifetime of kicking himself to look forward to once that realisation kicks in.

There is a fine line to be trod when it comes to the internet and parenting our children, especially once they become teenagers who need a certain degree of privacy. Over protect them and we risk breaking down the lines of communication and fostering secrecy. Under protect them, and we risk exposing them to risks and influences that may take them away from us with horrifying finality. It is a difficult balance to maintain.

reply to post by Sharingan


That and it should be clear that sadly the parents are at blame also. Giving a minor unrestricted and unsupervised Internet access is just asking for problems if the kid is not given a proper education and has no critical thinking capability.

Legislation should be created about bulling in the criminalization of the act not in creating artificial barriers or government intrusion into our personal life. Properly define the crime and sanctions and guarantee a working police and court-system...

reply to post by Sharingan


And the other issue is how many of those users were even real users? the 100% of the users are actually fake and bots.

Bot users dont include there family as friends, just a reminder.

reply to post by Mister_Bit


Thank you.

The last thing I wanted to do is to come over putting blame on the parents for causing the death of there daughter. I just wanted to hilight the fact that my origional post was maybe not 100% clear on the point I was trying to make and maybe it gave a more of a harsher opinion than I really wanted to put over. When someone has lost a daughter they need help, comfort and support.

You wanna know the NUMBER ONE way to NOT be bullied on a website?
Dont go to it

Really is just that simple, isn't it? Sounds like Hannah is getting a late Darwin award....

Bulies in my day did it with fists. We had to learn to deal with it, and wasn't as simple as simply not turning on a box and going to a site.... We're raising a generation of idiots....

While I'd love to see the bullying folks get manslaughter, I fear it would set a very dangerous legal precedent with really loose definitions if it succeeded.

That and it should be clear that sadly the parents are at blame also. Giving a minor unrestricted and unsupervised Internet access is just asking for problems if the kid is not given a proper education and has no critical thinking capability

Also right on the money. Why the hell do parents do this for kids?

In answer to the OP, it depends upon the circumstances. If I felt that the legal system was failing to properly investigate the situation YES then I would.

reply to post by Gazrok


You ask why parents do this to their kids, this is my take on the subject:

Sadly many parents are less computer and/or internet savvy than their children and while some try to restrict their child's activities online with parental control programs, oft times they fail to realize that with a bit of determination and intelligence it is not too difficult for their child to find a way to bypass them. Many parents know just enough to email and log on to their Facebook or other social networking sites and feel completely overwhelmed simply by the thought of learning anything more.

Simply put the growth of technology screamed past on nitro, those of parental age, and while they fumbled about afraid of damaging an expensive off the shelf PC (486's when they came out and depending on what "so and so" told his co-worker was essential, could come with a price tag of over $4000.00****I know because one of my co-workers did just that) Their children were learning their way around the basics of a computer in school. Then...it seems like all of their children's classmates are chatting online, visiting this or that website and their parents seem to think it's ok, so...it must be, that is until something like this happens.

As you noted bullies in your/our day used fists, catcalls, and whatever else they could think of to torment the victim and as you noted one could simply stay offline or refrain from logging on to a website to avoid the bullies. There is though another side of that, back in our days our bullies were known, online they can be anonymous, falsify their account info to appear as one of your real life friends, or create multiple accounts so as you block one of their profiles, they just log onto another. And I think that anonymity can create an environment in which someone who would never insult, bully, or even slight another face to face, are apt to feel less empathy for another when they are not standing toe to toe, face to face.

All that being said, those who took part in bullying her are not without at least some degree of blame. I realize that many feel that it's all on her and her family for her being too weak to deal with it, for her feeling such despair and hopelessness that she came to the decision that ending her life would hurt less than living did. On the other side of the coin though I believe that there is something just as equally flawed in the mentality of the bullies (as Hannah is portrayed as being). What rational person feels the need to inflict harm on another to achieve his own personal happiness. What has caused these people that they feel so inferior, and crave approval so deeply that bullying others, harming others and finding a way to be "above" another is their primary coping mechanism?

Over the years I have come across a number of stories such as this and have noticed that the responders primarily hold the bullies blameless and all fault is placed on the deceased and/or their parents, with the deceased described as mentally flawed for being so weak, even so far as too mentally weak to survive anyway ,by those holding the bullies blameless. Over that time I have marveled at how twisted people can be and they don't even think about what they are saying says about them. When did it become wrong and mentally unfit to wish to be treated with respect as a person or to at least be left alone. When did it become expected respected and considered acceptable for someone to intentionally inflict any type of pain on another be it physical or mental, and consider it fun.

Guess what.....

Ask.fm are claiming that 98% of all the abusive messages came from HER OWN IP ADDRESS!!!

www.thesundaytimes.co.uk...

Originally posted by pdoherty76
Guess what.....

Ask.fm are claiming that 98% of all the abusive messages came from HER OWN IP ADDRESS!!!

www.thesundaytimes.co.uk...

Now this does not entirely surprise me, as the mother of a teenage daughter, I know that they can at times be drama queens, and my own daughter has told me many stories of different things her peers would do to get attention on the internet, which is basically what ask.fm is about..people constantly looking for validation and praise..sadly the world does not work like that though...

I also have a personal experience of my neighbour's daughter committing suicide age 13, for reasons unknown, she didn't have the internet at home and it was before the advent of smart phones, so it was not a case of online bullying, but no matter what, it was devastating for everyone and as my daughter was just 12 at the time, I made sure I spent lots of time with her, discussing a number of things and letting her know, that no matter what, she could always come to me and talk about anything, that I wouldn't be angry (well not for more than 5 mins lol) and that we could sort anything out, no matter what it was and we still have a very open and good relationship to this day.

We did have a couple of incidents with bebo after the neighbour's suicide, where people posted abuse to my daughter's profile (she was a bit of a goth/emo back then) telling her she should have killed herself rather than the other girl, but I found out who was responsible and I went and spoke to the parents, one set of parents couldn't care less, the others made sure that their child was properly punished for it, and as I am very internet and computer savvy, I then made sure that the appropriate controls were in place to ensure it did not happen again.

However, the most important thing is to have a good dialogue with your children, so that they will come to you if anything is happening.

As for the OP's question, personally I would not have done what this father did, but I think it is safe to assume from his own fb posts and interviews, that he is not well educated, is probably feeling very guilty that he was unable to do anything, or for that matter, even aware of anything, particularly as he had a job that took him away from home a lot, and just wanted to lash out at those he felt responsible, not even the bullies themselves, but the website that enabled the bullying..wrong target of course and with this new information that seemingly Hannah herself was posting the messages, he will doubtless live with the guilt of not being there for his daughter for the rest of his life...very sad all round.

reply to post by xmaox


You are absolutely spot on with the attention aspect. I have had many discussions about this, mainly because I have had a personal experience with the tragedy that is teen suicide, and one of the conclusions I have come to is that quite often the real intention is not to actually die, but to get a lot of attention...sadly though they don't actually get to appreciate the attention because, contrary to what they might think, once you've put a noose round your neck, it is almost impossible to get out of, and unless you are found within a couple of minutes, sadly your chance of survival is minimal.

I really think that suicide is such a taboo subject and that parents are too scared to talk to their children about it, when in fact they should, they should be talking to their children about the finality of such an act and that it is rare that someone is saved, and as teens often have this romanticised notion that they are indestructible, they are not, and that once you are dead, that is it, you are dead...you don't get to read the facebook tribute page.

Originally posted by xmaox
reply to post by hp1229

 

The reason why this type of situation has been happening so often is precisely because of the media attention the cases have been going. Some disillusioned teen is debating what to do with their life, and the choose to end it for the attention. I know that sounds like an awful thing to say, but as a victim of bullying and suicidal thoughts, and knowing a lot of people who dealt with similar issues, I can't in good conscious say that bullies and social networking is ever the end-all be-all.

I call it partial BS. Its the parenting to be blamed upto a great extent.