Muhammad never preformed a single miracle his entire life

Originally posted by cass1dy09

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Encore
Muhammad was a messenger sent by the god , just like Jesus Christ

1 - Prove it. Prove that Muhammad was really a messenger from God.
2 - And prove that he was 'just like Jesus Christ'. Considering that Jesus performed miracles and
considering that Jesus didn't raise Armies to slaughter and rape people, I think you are going to have a tough time proving it. But go ahead and try ...

edit on 8/8/2013 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)

Show proof that Jesus actually existed. There is proof of Mohammed lived but where is the proof for Jesus.

There's over 5000 manuscripts that prove Jesus' existence. There's roughly only 20 that prove Socrates & Plato lived.. Lets stick to the argument if he preformed miracles or not and not argue if he existed because atheist bible scholars even agree he did.

One question I would like to ask a Muslim is how can you base an entire religion off of 1 angels apparent message when Enoch, Grandfather of Noah had encounters with 4 angels; Gabriel, Michael, Uriel and Raphael and his writings aren't even taken seriously/literal.

What you are saying is complete bunk. There's absolutely no evidence Jesus existed. none ..zero. the only alleged evidence is written words from religious books. that's not proof of existence. No more than the millions of hieroglyphics carved on the walls of Egyptian temples prove the existence of Horus or Osirus.

Brahm Stokers Dracula has been translated into 135 languages, copied, added to, re written, thousands of different editions and spin offs, The places in the book are all real places you can go visit them. Even Draculas castle is still in existence, does that mean that Dracula existed? no.

The Gospels have over 2000 contradictions alone. with many Scholars agreeing that some of the Gospels were written by many different people and not a single hand.

reply to post by auraelium




Just writing in books? Then there is really no proof that anything in history actually happened. Why bother with schooling at all if you can't believe what is written down? None of it comes with tangible proof and most of it's heresay.

reply to post by babloyi


If I'm not mistaken, the words of Muhammad were passed down orally for many years before being written down. Wouldn't that constitute as hearsay as well?

I suppose the Hadith (sayings of Muhammad) WOULD count as hearsay in a court of law, but I didn't see anyone try to defend them as "eyewitness testimony". Thing is, while maybe some false or inaccurate ones slipped through, the hadith had much more stringent filtering system than even the Gospels- each Hadith has to have a complete chain of the narrators all the way from the writer of them to the Prophet himself. So you'd know WHO exactly each person was in the "He said that she said that he said that the Prophet Muhammad said..." chain, and whether or not they were trustworthy, whether they had given fabricated hadith, or made errors, etc.

Originally posted by Loveaduck
reply to post by auraelium

 

Just writing in books? Then there is really no proof that anything in history actually happened. Why bother with schooling at all if you can't believe what is written down? None of it comes with tangible proof and most of it's heresay.

For the most part yes. Especially books written by unknown hands. Some manuscripts in history have more credibility than others especially manuscripts that are written by known writers that can be cross referenced with others. The Romans were meticulous record keepers, The Vatican has millions of scrolls written around the time of Jesus by writers appointed by the Roman Empire to record every aspect of Roman rule, hundreds of thousands of scrolls from Judea are contained in the Vatican library, yet none mention Jesus.

Originally posted by LUXUS
In ancient times and even in modern times if you claimed to be enlightened,a great prophet or even God himself it was and is expected that you preform miracle as proof that you are who you say you are.

During Muhammads life he was actually not that popular because the locals would ask him to preform a miracle to prove he was who he said he was but he was unable to do so.

Q. 17: 90
They say: "We shall not believe in thee, until thou cause a spring to gush forth for us from the earth,

Q. 25: 7
And they say: "What sort of a messenger is this, who eats food, and walks through the streets? Why has not an angel been sent down to him to give admonition with him?


Q. 15: 07
Why do you not bring to us the angels if you are of the truthful ones?


There is not a single miracle in the entire quran preformed by Muhammad. Muhammad actually says himself in the Quran that the only miracle that can be attributed to him was the writing of the Quran itself!

If Muhammad was a University student and the Quran was a thesis/dissertation he would be done for plagiarism because his book heavily borrowed from Jewish, christian, Zoroastrian, pagan religions of the time.
....

You're right, LUXUS, Muhammad never performed any miracles. He did not have the power to.

Most scholars believe Muhammad was illiterate. Muhammad had to dictate the Quran (the recitation) to a professional "remembrancer."

Of course, they had to make it illegal to criticize either Muhammad or his Quran because in a free society, both would be ripped to shreds. Muhammad was NOT a nice guy and the Quran is g*&^%#e.

I do not belong to any organized religion, but I do believe that Jesus was real and that he performed miracles.
(I realize this is not a fashionable stance.)

There's a long tradition that one who has merged with God (a fully realized being or gnosticus) can perform miracles.

reply to post by AuranVector


Why do you believe that Jesus existed and committed miracles without proof? Do you believe in the Minotaur? or Medusa? or Zeus? You say you are not religious but why believe in one mythological figure and not others?

reply to post by Danbones

"he who believes in a different god you must kill him..."

Chapter and verse please. I am pretty sure that verse is referring to apostate Israelites who turned against the Lord after making a covenant with him.

reply to post by LUXUS


I have the following observations about your avatar:

a. Krishna was not weak or diminutive. The average height of men in Krishna's time was above 6 feet and people were well built. Krishna was of the average height and stature.

b. Krishna's skin color was 'brown' and not 'blue'. He was the same color as most of other Indians at that time. His color has been changed in stories that made him 'God' later on.

I desist from saying anything about Jesus or Mohammed. But I can say that people love false prophets because they love to deny the existence of the real God. The real God never takes birth, never sends any messengers to earth, and treats all life equally as all life bears the same soul. The real God is truth, justice and purity, things people want to run away from.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Encore
Muhammad was a messenger sent by the god , just like Jesus Christ

1 - Prove it. Prove that Muhammad was really a messenger from God.
2 - And prove that he was 'just like Jesus Christ'. Considering that Jesus performed miracles and
considering that Jesus didn't raise Armies to slaughter and rape people, I think you are going to have a tough time proving it. But go ahead and try ...

edit on 8/8/2013 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)

Are you a christian, asking for proof of the claims about mohammed?

How ironic...prove...anything the bible claims about Jesus.

reply to post by LUXUS

Muhammad never preformed a single miracle his entire life

The Prophet Muhammad’s biggest and eternal miracle is the Qur’an

reply to post by LUXUS


I agree but neither did the big J, every notice how ones name
was Mohammad and the others was Jesus, put them together
and the rebirth of them both was MJ man how could we not
have seen that one, Michale Jackson as Mohammad Jesus.....

Miracles are in the eye of the beholder, Jesus in the bible gave
us a cure for leprosy which entailed killing a pigeon and using
its blood, that way was tried and tried again to no success
and yet scientists have found a cure that works, no pigeon blood
needed, who is the real miracle worker?

Okay I hate to add fuel to the fire but these people claiming the Bible to be some sort of incontrovertible proof of the historical existence of Jesus are getting my goat. Outside of the Bible there are little historical records of Jesus while there are several records of the people who he was rumored to have dealt with. This is but one small problem, the other being the obvious similarity between the more fantastical records of Jesus' life and those of much older religious figures. There are a large amount of internet sources repressing this information or claiming it wrong but almost all of them are church affiliated and have their own agenda.
There is no concrete proof of Christ's existence. Claiming that there is more writing about him than historical figures is not proof. There is more writing about Superman than Plato. Mythology is fiction.

Not only did muhammad perform (0) miracle, he flowed on top of a donkey through the night. The donkey was his only witness. Don't forget he married a (9) years old girl.

reply to post by Sonny2


Instead... Pray for it, lol

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Invent a time machine. Otherwise all you have is faith.

Faith isn't all you have, or anyone else, in regards to evidence. We have functioning brains capable of reason. You chose faith, but you could have just as easily reasoned a very different direction in the presence of lacking evidence.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

"he who believes in a different god you must kill him..."

Chapter and verse please.

These might be pertinent.

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19)

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13)

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12)

Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5)

Jesus and Mohamed are the Obama and Bush's of today. They all use lies, fear and deception to get a bunch of people to blindly follow them. The fear back then was of death, not living forever. Follow them and you will be forever in the holy land. Today, they use the fear of terrorist, only they can protect you.

The man himself said he needed no miracles as the people of his age needed not to see miracles as those before them.

Yet if you study early islam, you would come across Ali ibn Abi Talib. Muhammed had said that Ali is in himself a miracle, without Ali Islam would have perished in its early days.

From Ali we have the Sunni-Shia split, the Alawaites in Turkey and Syria worshiped Ali voluntary due to his miracles.

Yet Ali was not a prophet, neither did he claim such thing. He was a second in command to Mohammed, and a member of the Household.

Originally posted by Vasa Croe
How exactly does one "preform" a miracle? Did he make it first (preform) then actually perform it? I would have to agree OP....he definitely did NOT "preform" any miracles.

Sorry....had to do it.....

seriously, that's all you have to bring to the debate, on an international forum is one spelling error.
But using your sarcastic comment to good use all the miracles listed by the OP seem to have had a lot of "preforming"and "premeditation" and planning to construct them.

heres some miracle footage for a laugh.