The Body and Soul

God has a plan for heaven that pertains to you and I. That pertains to people today who will take God at his message through the apostle of the Gentiles, the apostle Paul. Satan and his forces are so obsessed with stealing Paul’s gospel, obsessed with keeping it hidden so people do not discover it. As long as people do not discover Paul’s gospel, as long as they are steered away from the true gospel they cannot believe Paul’s gospel. Satan and his forces are playing a cover up game with Paul’s gospel, because they have a desire to keep people lost. For example, Satan and his forces have deceived a great many people into believing a negative view of the body in contrast to the soul, and a concept of salvation as interior experience rather than total transformation. A great many people have been deceived into believing that their nature is dualistic, that is, consisting of a material, mortal body and a spiritual, immortal soul. They generally envision a destiny where their immortal souls will survive the death of their body and will spend eternity in the bliss of heaven or in the torment of hell. These people have been taught that death is the separation of the immortal soul from the mortal body, so that the soul survives the body in a disembodied state. By death, the soul is separated from the body, but a resurrection God will give incorruptible life to the body, transformed by reunion with the soul. Worst of all, dualism has given rise to the sadistic teaching that God makes the wicked suffer unending conscious torment in hell, which has been such a burden to the Christian conscience and such unnecessary offense to many seekers. Dualism has done such a serious harm in weakening our blessed hope of Christ ‘s appearing and in distorting our understanding of our citizenship in heaven.

God’s Reconciliation of Man, read more about it at godsreconciliation.blogspot.com...

I would have to disagree that Paul was an apostle nor would I call his epistles a gospel. The gospels start at Mark and end at John.

Also, the universe IS dualistic in nature, but it is still One entity. Kind of how a coin has two sides, each side is not separate from the one coin, but they are distinct from one another.

reply to post by newnature

atan and his forces are so obsessed with stealing Paul’s gospel, obsessed with keeping it hidden so people do not discover it. As long as people do not discover Paul’s gospel, as long as they are steered away from the true gospel they cannot believe Paul’s gospel. Satan and his forces are playing a cover up game with Paul’s gospel, because they have a desire to keep people lost. For example, Satan and his forces have deceived a great many people into believing a negative view of the body in contrast to the soul, and a concept of salvation as interior experience rather than total transformation.

You know, it is really quite interesting. You talk about all these terrible things "Satan" wants to do, all of these things he wants to keep hidden, all of these ways that he wants to deceive us and steal our souls...

And yet, I just can't help but notice that the only people talking trash are the ones who follow "God". When's the last time I heard anything from the father of all lies? Never. When's the last time I saw a commercial or read a sermon from him? Never. When's the last time I witnessed a Satanist going out of their way to try and convert the masses or publicly declaim "God" and profess their love for eternal corruption? Oh, that's right...NEVER!! I feel sorry for the poor guy, really. I've never seen a more profound scapegoat in all my years. He's never said a word to the world, and yet, he's the worst thing since the meteor that killed the dinosaurs.

This reminds me of one of those loonies who go around proclaiming their victimization at the hands of numerous invisible entities who are forever stalking their footsteps with malevolent intent, despite the fact that not a single person is really doing anything except studiously ignoring their rants.

reply to post by newnature

. . . teaching that God makes the wicked suffer unending conscious torment in hell . . .

Paul talks about things that are "natural" compared to things that are of God.
I think Hades would be in the realm of the natural, meaning no one needs God to "put" you there.
You will just naturally find yourself there when your body dies.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
I would have to disagree that Paul was an apostle nor would I call his epistles a gospel. The gospels start at Mark and end at John.

Also, the universe IS dualistic in nature, but it is still One entity. Kind of how a coin has two sides, each side is not separate from the one coin, but they are distinct from one another.

Poor matthew gets left out?

What gives?

reply to post by newnature

Worst of all, dualism has given rise to the sadistic teaching that God makes the wicked suffer unending conscious torment in hell, which has been such a burden to the Christian conscience and such unnecessary offense to many seekers.

Please provide scripture that states otherwise. And no, I don't mean quoting scripture out of context.

reply to post by Akragon


Oops. I guess I was thinking of what order they were written in and not their sequence in the bible. My bad.

The gospels start at Matthew and end at John.

Originally posted by newnature
God has a plan for heaven that pertains to you and I. That pertains to people today who will take God at his message through the apostle of the Gentiles, the apostle Paul. Satan and his forces are so obsessed with stealing Paul’s gospel, obsessed with keeping it hidden so people do not discover it. As long as people do not discover Paul’s gospel, as long as they are steered away from the true gospel they cannot believe Paul’s gospel. Satan and his forces are playing a cover up game with Paul’s gospel, because they have a desire to keep people lost. For example, Satan and his forces have deceived a great many people into believing a negative view of the body in contrast to the soul, and a concept of salvation as interior experience rather than total transformation. A great many people have been deceived into believing that their nature is dualistic, that is, consisting of a material, mortal body and a spiritual, immortal soul. They generally envision a destiny where their immortal souls will survive the death of their body and will spend eternity in the bliss of heaven or in the torment of hell. These people have been taught that death is the separation of the immortal soul from the mortal body, so that the soul survives the body in a disembodied state. By death, the soul is separated from the body, but a resurrection God will give incorruptible life to the body, transformed by reunion with the soul. Worst of all, dualism has given rise to the sadistic teaching that God makes the wicked suffer unending conscious torment in hell, which has been such a burden to the Christian conscience and such unnecessary offense to many seekers. Dualism has done such a serious harm in weakening our blessed hope of Christ ‘s appearing and in distorting our understanding of our citizenship in heaven.

God’s Reconciliation of Man, read more about it at godsreconciliation.blogspot.com...

Paul taught that man is a triune creature just like his maker. We are Spirit, soul, and body.
1st Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
You speak of hell can you show me where men will spend eterinty in hell? thanks

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Also, the universe IS dualistic in nature, but it is still One entity.

That would be a very large contradiction. The coin analogy is a little misleading, I think. Having two surface areas does not make a coin dualistic in nature. Only how you conceive it is dualistic.

Up?Down? Well there are an infinite amount of directions something could travel. Hot/Cold? There are an infinite amount of temperatures. I don't see how the universe, as one entity, can be dualistic in nature.

Please explain if you get the time.

Regards

God has a plan for heaven that pertains to you and I. Satan and his forces...

reply to post by newnature


Haven't seen or heard from a god or Satan. But, don't despair if you haven't either. You see, if there is a god and a devil, then you were created to to be their toy. Be impossibly perfect and go to heaven, make a human mistake and go to hell.

So, really, if a god or demon ever does appear to you, tell them to get lost.

reply to post by NiNjABackflip


Good points, but the universe is dualistic in nature in the same way that every action has a reaction or every cause has an effect. The two may be part of the same scale, but they are still distinctive in their nature.

The cause is to the effect as the spiritual is to the physical. Both part of the same system, yet distinct from one another. Hopefully that makes sense.

It is possible to see the world as dualistic and One at the same time, just like the coin analogy. Would you say all the layers in-between the two sides are not part of the same coin?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Good points, but the universe is dualistic in nature in the same way that every action has a reaction or every cause has an effect. The two may be part of the same scale, but they are still distinctive in their nature.

The cause is to the effect as the spiritual is to the physical. Both part of the same system, yet distinct from one another. Hopefully that makes sense.

It is possible to see the world as dualistic and One at the same time, just like the coin analogy. Would you say all the layers in-between the two sides are not part of the same coin?

Every effect is also a cause of another effect and every cause is also an effect of another cause. As an example, is the bowling ball the cause, and the pins falling an effect? Someone had to first throw the ball, meaning the ball too is an effect. Anything that moves—namely everything—is both a cause and effect. Something must've caused them to move, and its moving is the effect, and likewise they will cause other things to move, and so forth.

I also don't think spiritual and physical are different in any way. Both are very ill-defined concepts. In that sense, they are the same.

But I think there is no dualistic tendency to nature what so ever.

Sorry for taking us off topic, I just think this stuff is interesting.

Regards.

reply to post by NiNjABackflip


That's actually a great point, and kind of proves my point in a way. Every cause being an effect as well, is the same as me saying the dual is the singular, or the physical is the spiritual. Esoterically, they are the same but they are distinctively different.

Like I said, you can see the world as dualistic and One at the same time. It's kind of like seeing different temperatures as part of the same scale.

The mind is the great deceiver - it thinks it knows things. But really all that can ever be known is this moment - and what this moment is can not be put into words. Words arise in this moment and tell stories of other times and other places and those stories will never be the same as anyone elses. Those stories about other times and places will always conflict. This moment of presence arises unconditionally but is rarely noticed as one is lost in the stories of other.

The body is always present but the mind is elsewhere and else when.
The soul is present but the mind is next and before.
Return to where and when is real.
Presence. Timeless being.

reply to post by guitarplayer


That idea has been around for literally thousands and thousands and thousands of years. The holy trinity - the divinity of the number 3 - is scattered prolifically throughout dozens and dozens of cultures both connected and unconnected to Christianity.

The trinity is a false doctrine,It is not in the scriptures .Man does not "have" a soul they are a soul.When "life"(spirit) animates a body it is a living soul.Paul is not talking about 3 different entities.When the body dies "that soul" is dead.The spirit(life) returns from where it came.The soul is not immortal because there is no trinity image of God with a "soul".That is not in the scriptures.

reply to post by Rex282

The trinity is a false doctrine,It is not in the scriptures .

The Apostolic writers of the New Testament believed in a trinity even if that word was not then in current usage.
You can find it being described in several places in the NT.

Man does not "have" a soul they are a soul.When "life"(spirit) animates a body it is a living soul.Paul is not talking about 3 different entities.When the body dies "that soul" is dead.

You may be attempting a type of "correctness" that would satisfy your Jewish friends but the Apostle Paul was willing to be beaten nearly to death by Jews who took exception to his teachings.
A Christian should know that the proper approach to biblical interpretation is to understand the OT in light of the NT. You are doing the opposite by overriding Paul with your interpretation of Genesis 2, probably because of some misplaced sense of loyalty to the OT character sometimes identified as YHWH.
Paul means exactly what he says when he says that God will keep you "in spirit, soul, and body" in 1 Thessalonians 5:23.

The spirit(life) returns from where it came.The soul is not immortal because there is no trinity image of God with a "soul".That is not in the scriptures.

Your physical breathing leaves your body when it dies, that is true. Obviously Paul in the verse under discussion is speaking of another sense of the word spirit.
The same thing goes with the word, soul, where Paul is not writing in Hebrew but Greek, to people who read and spoke in Greek, so the word would be understood differently than it may have been five or six hundred years earlier in a different setting.
I think that it would be fairly safe to assume that Paul's readers would have believed in the immortality of the soul, where the part that was critical for Paul to emphasize was the hope of the possibility of a physical resurrection in a body that was incorruptible.