Christopher Hitchens Vs Religion

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


He bashes all religion, stop pretending its only christians that get bashed...
Also how is it ironic? he got cancer and died never once did he become a believer right up to his death.
By his own admission he got cancer through smoking and drinking to much.
Oh and If he is in Hell I sure would prefer to be in the company of an intelligent critical thinker than someone who blindly believes what other MEN have told them to believe.

How old is the video? Is he still alive? Springer is looking for guests to come on ATS to answer questions. You might want to put this fella's name in the running ... Thread Here . It could make for an interesting guest ...

reply to post by FlyersFan


He died Iam afraid, I would have tried but I think he had a bigger audience, cheers for the link flyers had not seen it.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Here's the irony. Hitchens would never shut up bashing christians and God. He ended up dying from throat cancer.

Don't think too hard on that. I'm sure many a priest or religious fanatic died of throat cancer.

May God rest his soul.

reply to post by wildtimes

I'm not an atheist (more of an Agnostic Deist), BUT nevertheless, everything he says about the organized Abrahamic religions is spot on. Religion does not cause morality, nor does it tenets make sense - and I think this compilation video makes that VERY clear. In fact, his points seem to me to be indisputable facts. I hope every pious member watches it and thinks it over.

Who establishes what morality is then, if you will? Man? Nature? The Cosmos? If not God then who?

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Who establishes what morality is then, if you will?

People are born with an innate sense of morality. As Hitchens says ..... for the 100,000 or so years that humans have been around, they already knew not to lie, cheat, kill, steal. It isn't like Moses went up that hill and suddenly everyone was like "Ohhhh!!!!! We're not supposed to do that? Really??!!!"

The human race would never have made it to that point.

I think it's a good idea for you to watch the vid in the OP. But, thanks for your response. Been a while since we talked.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


So If you didn't have your faith you would have no morals? you would kill steal and plunder would you? is your faith the only thing stopping you from doing those things? says more about you tbh If you think without faith you would not have morals.

reply to post by boymonkey74

So If you didn't have your faith you would have no morals? you would kill steal and plunder would you? is your faith the only thing stopping you from doing those things? says more about you tbh If you think without faith you would not have morals.

He simply implied that morality has a source of origin, regardless of whether or not one believes in God.
Its just there in (most) humans... like a fail-safe program to keep everyone from going bonkers. The difference is that theists believe it came from God.... atheists believe it "evolved".

Why exactly do atheists refrain from stealing, plundering and killing? Since there is no God, atheists don't have to worry about hell and judgement and what not... so is it because of the fear of being jailed?
And If the "law" didn't exist, does that mean atheists would go about stealing and plundering?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

And If the "law" didn't exist, does that mean atheists would go about stealing and plundering?

No. They wouldn't. And if "hell" (an idea that has been debunked to death) doesn't exist, (which it doesn't....and many now are aware of the way it came INTO popular belief), would believers in God-without-hell BEGIN stealing and plundering? Ridiculous assertion.

Religion does not "cause" morality, and atheism does not "cause" debauchery. Period. I think you are mixing up sociopathy with religious belief. And that's a separate subject altogether.

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

Honestly when you come across as so hateful and unhappy very few people would ever want to participate in what you are trying to sell.

Oh I know how you feel. We post what is logical and the religious freaks go nuts while those same freaks spew the same make-believe crap every day here. It's truly pitiful.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

...morality... Its just there in (most) humans...

Right. Just as it's in birds to fly south for the winter, or for salmon to swim upstream to spawn. When we look at chimps and apes today we see alpha males in each group. They make the laws. Fear of those males brings the rest of the group together in fear. We are no different.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
How old is the video? Is he still alive? Springer is looking for guests to come on ATS to answer questions. You might want to put this fella's name in the running ... Thread Here . It could make for an interesting guest ...

Unfortunately, he passed away. So, I put the word in for Dawkins and Harris.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Why exactly do atheists refrain from stealing, plundering and killing? Since there is no God, atheists don't have to worry about hell and judgement and what not... so is it because of the fear of being jailed? And If the "law" didn't exist, does that mean atheists would go about stealing and plundering?

Sadly, most humans will become what their society makes of them. If we are brought up to believe that stealing and plundering and killing are bad, we will also consider these things bad. On the reverse side, just look at how other societies treat their wives and daughters. We are psychologically malleable.

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

Why exactly do atheists refrain from stealing, plundering and killing? Since there is no God, atheists don't have to worry about hell and judgement and what not... so is it because of the fear of being jailed? And If the "law" didn't exist, does that mean atheists would go about stealing and plundering?

Sadly, most humans will become what their society makes of them. If we are brought up to believe that stealing and plundering and killing are bad, we will also consider these things bad. On the reverse side, just look at how other societies treat their wives and daughters. We are psychologically malleable.

This isn't true in the least and highly prejudicial in tone.I bet the majority of folks in prison were brought up in homes that emphasized good behavior.People don't only act "good" because they are taught to be good.

I am positive there are many,many Muslims that don't seek to to be lawless just as there are many "atheist" who don't need the 10 commandments to dictate morals.There is something else at work that transcends upbringing.To believe the lines can be so clearly drawn is blindness.

Some scientist believe there is a "moral" chemical a female reproductive hormone,called oxytocin.Whatever it is it is much more complicated than upbringing and religion or country.The evidence is laws do not make anyone "better".They usually just constrain the corrupt perp more than without them.Non Christian and Atheist are not prone to be anymore amoral than anyone else...It is individualized and is not catagorizable.Anything else is extreme prejudice.

reply to post by Rex282

This isn't true in the least and highly prejudicial in tone.I bet the majority of folks in prison were brought up in homes that emphasized good behavior.People don't only act "good" because they are taught to be good. I am positive there are many,many Muslims that don't seek to to be lawless just as there are many "atheist" who don't need the 10 commandments to dictate morals.There is something else at work that transcends upbringing.To believe the lines can be so clearly drawn is blindness. Some scientist believe there is a "moral" chemical a female reproductive hormone,called oxytocin.Whatever it is it is much more complicated than upbringing and religion or country.The evidence is laws do not make anyone "better".They usually just constrain the corrupt perp more than without them.Non Christian and Atheist are not prone to be anymore amoral than anyone else...It is individualized and is not catagorizable.Anything else is extreme prejudice.

I will go so far as to say my statement is only partly true. Other conditions such as the chemical make-up of the brain, childhood experiences, and level of education also play a role in determining how one lives his/her life. A god plays no role in it whatsoever.

reply to post by jiggerj

Sadly, most humans will become what their society makes of them. If we are brought up to believe that stealing and plundering and killing are bad, we will also consider these things bad. On the reverse side, just look at how other societies treat their wives and daughters. We are psychologically malleable.

1. Why is stealing and plundering and killing bad in the first place?
Theists may give you a spiritual explanation for its origin. But what about atheists? If morality evolved, when and how did this trait emerge down the evolutionary path? The single celled creatures did not have "morality", so it seems to have just appeared out of nowhere in some creatures.

2. Atheists have no fear of God or hellfire, yet they act "morally". Is it because of the fear of the law?
Would atheists stop acting morally if the world suddenly became lawless?

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by jiggerj

 

1. Why is stealing and plundering and killing bad in the first place?
Theists may give you a spiritual explanation for its origin. But what about atheists? If morality evolved, when and how did this trait emerge down the evolutionary path? The single celled creatures did not have "morality", so it seems to have just appeared out of nowhere in some creatures.

Again, this is quite a mystery. How did supposedly dumb animals that live in social systems develop what is right and wrong within those systems? Why would a group of elephants surround their young when a predator is about (meaning that their young are sacred to them) while the female praying mantis and certain spiders kill the male after mating (meaning nothing is sacred or right or wrong to them)? However, in no way do these things provide evidence of a god, or rather, a morality giver. We just don't know where this morality came from.

2. Atheists have no fear of God or hellfire, yet they act "morally". Is it because of the fear of the law?
Would atheists stop acting morally if the world suddenly became lawless?

Yes. It's why we have laws.